Getting Published: What To Do If You Can't Get An Agent

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I don't think luck has anything to do with it if the story doesn't go anywhere, or rambles, or makes little sense, or if the writing is so raw that any editing needed would be extensive. Luck won't get that past an agent. They haven't got the time to teach someone how to write, and there's nothing in it for them. They don't make any money unless they sell a book. Something has to be there in the submission to make them believe the story is strong enough, or high concept enough, or something to sell. And even then, if the author is obviously such a newbie that they can't string together a set of decent sentences, or if the manuscript has editing errors all over it, these days, they still aren't likely to take a chance.

Now, if we're talking self-pubbed books, that's another animal. No gatekeepers means any piece of crap can make it onto Amazon and be put up for sale.
 
I have to say I do love the publishing industry more and more. There's something appealing about it. It's the books! I love books. But even more so the traditional publishing route has to be admired although one can put forward the case that if you have a great book in your hand it might still not get noticed. It's hard to tell and again as someone said - it's all subjective. So if you believe it is good - your testers/betas/focus group believe it is good - then perhaps either go to festival shows and meet agents face to face. It'll cost a few hundred quid but a fraction less than doing it all yourself. Money worth investing? now that's subjective in its own right.
 
Carol Rose said:
I don't think luck has anything to do with it if the story doesn't go anywhere, or rambles, or makes little sense, or if the writing is so raw that any editing needed would be extensive. Luck won't get that past an agent. They haven't got the time to teach someone how to write, and there's nothing in it for them. They don't make any money unless they sell a book. Something has to be there in the submission to make them believe the story is strong enough, or high concept enough, or something to sell. And even then, if the author is obviously such a newbie that they can't string together a set of decent sentences, or if the manuscript has editing errors all over it, these days, they still aren't likely to take a chance.

Now, if we're talking self-pubbed books, that's another animal. No gatekeepers means any piece of crap can make it onto Amazon and be put up for sale.
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That... is the reason it is getting so difficult to get cross-genre books discovered. There is a lot of dreck out there, and not all of it comes from self-pubbers (to be perfectly fair...). With more than 2.2 million new books published each year, readers are more confused and numbed than ever.
 
Richard Sutton said:
That... is the reason it is getting so difficult to get cross-genre books discovered. There is a lot of dreck out there, and not all of it comes from self-pubbers (to be perfectly fair...). With more than 2.2 million new books published each year, readers are more confused and numbed than ever.
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Carol Rose said:
I don't think luck has anything to do with it if the story doesn't go anywhere, or rambles, or makes little sense, or if the writing is so raw that any editing needed would be extensive. Luck won't get that past an agent. They haven't got the time to teach someone how to write, and there's nothing in it for them. They don't make any money unless they sell a book. Something has to be there in the submission to make them believe the story is strong enough, or high concept enough, or something to sell. And even then, if the author is obviously such a newbie that they can't string together a set of decent sentences, or if the manuscript has editing errors all over it, these days, they still aren't likely to take a chance.

Now, if we're talking self-pubbed books, that's another animal. No gatekeepers means any piece of crap can make it onto Amazon and be put up for sale.
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I would say that in theory you're absolutely right, but that there is a lot of really bad writing out there that made it onto bookshelves somehow. That said, I would also grant that most if not all those stories came out in a bygone era of publishing, à la piles of pulp science fiction from the 80s.
 
Richard Sutton said:
That... is the reason it is getting so difficult to get cross-genre books discovered. There is a lot of dreck out there, and not all of it comes from self-pubbers (to be perfectly fair...). With more than 2.2 million new books published each year, readers are more confused and numbed than ever.
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Amen to that, Richard. The market is over-saturated. I'm competing with everything from authors who basically write the same book, over and over again, all the way to the utterly ridiculous dinosaur porn. The title "published author" has lost any special meaning it once had because all it takes now is a computer, and enough brains to upload a file onto Amazon. Most seven year olds could do as much.
 
Richard Sutton said:
That... is the reason it is getting so difficult to get cross-genre books discovered. There is a lot of dreck out there, and not all of it comes from self-pubbers (to be perfectly fair...). With more than 2.2 million new books published each year, readers are more confused and numbed than ever.
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2.2million books?! So is that better odds than winning the lottery? Just curious.

But it's true. Not sure how many unworthy books get published by traditional routes - but isn't that also subjective. After all just because I think an agent made a mistake doesn't always mean it is. Even investors have to spread their investment over 10 proposals with the hope that at least 1 is a success. So agents/publishers need to take a risk (albeit calculated) on some books (as investors do with businesses). That's how I see it anyway.
 
Carol Rose said:
Best option is a relative phrase I suppose. I'm betting E.L. James isn't worried about whether or not she chose the best option. And we've already seen evidence she doesn't really care that her books get mocked. I see just as many readers who adored them, and admit they were the books that led them to seek out other erotic romance writers.

The books brought BDSM into the mainstream, and even though she got most of it (all of it!) wrong, it's given those of us who write it and actually DID research it the opportunity to educate our readers. It's opened a whole new world in which to write for many of us, and opened up engaging, positive dialogue about heroes, heroines, and what each of them want in a relationship.

The sad truth is that the majority of our readers don't know or don't care whether the book is perfectly written. They simply want to read a good STORY. If the writing is stellar, that's a bonus to them, and they will keep coming to those authors knowing they won't have to wade through awkward sentence structure, poor grammar, or misspelled words to reach the meat of the story. But they also don't automatically reject authors who aren't the strongest technical writers, but who can tell one heck of a great story with memorable characters.

Those of us (like me!) who focus more on technical skills than character development in that first pass are actually at a disadvantage. I need to work hard on my story and character arcs. Other writers have that down pat as easily as I can whip up a sentence that makes sense and is punctuated correctly. I envy them, to be honest. Layering in emotion or the right amount of empathy - and that special something that instantly connects a reader to their story - isn't a skill that comes easily to me. I wish it did.
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I totally agree that even poorly written stories can be good stories. I, too, finished the book I was just complaining about because the story was so good (and bc it was great research for my next book), despite continually being ticked off at the writing. All I'm saying is, agents may look at them and think "why put my name on a poorly written good story when there are hundreds of other queries, some of which will probably be a well written good story". :)
 
That, Nicole is what completely surprises me about new books in over-saturated genres when the tropes seem to be the ones already used to death. I mean, why spend the time writing it down if the best you could be doing is mimicry? I've even run into that with favorite best selling authors of mine who have resorted to mimicking previous work in new books or -- and this is a favorite of S. King -- dumping such a load of self-congratulatory references to previous out of series books it starts to feel like a literary cocktail party with all the "name dropping". He really annoyed me enough to abandon the Dark Tower Series, just about the time I'd invested in five books and the concordance... sheesh! BTW, it's soon to be a major M.P.... so I suppose I'm wasting my breath, etc.
 
I tried for years to get picked up by an agent and got tired of the long waits. In retrospect, I wasn't even close to ready. My writing was too raw. I eventually found another way in, and even though I make much higher royalties than I would with one of the big five, and I have roughly the same exposure and marketing as they would give me - a mid-list author by their standards (based on what I make each year in royalties) - I'm still swimming upstream because Amazon is killing all of us. I'm competing with really horrendous writing, and authors who sell like hotcakes, but basically write the same book over and over again. It's becoming increasingly frustrating to even bother trying, to be quite blunt. I'm ready to write what I want for the love of it, and put it out there for free. I might as well. I get pirated like crazy anyway.
 
Richard Sutton said:
That, Nicole is what completely surprises me about new books in over-saturated genres when the tropes seem to be the ones already used to death. I mean, why spend the time writing it down if the best you could be doing is mimicry? I've even run into that with favorite best selling authors of mine who have resorted to mimicking previous work in new books or -- and this is a favorite of S. King -- dumping such a load of self-congratulatory references to previous out of series books it starts to feel like a literary cocktail party with all the "name dropping". He really annoyed me enough to abandon the Dark Tower Series, just about the time I'd invested in five books and the concordance... sheesh! BTW, it's soon to be a major M.P.... so I suppose I'm wasting my breath, etc.
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OMG I hated him a little when he did that with the Dark Tower series. It started out so promising, and I realize he had that horrible accident in the middle of it, but still. Egads. What a hot mess. :(
 
I'd love to get an agent, but I'm not sure if/when I'll ever get to that point. I'm not super great at self promotion (I only have 40 odd twitter followers and I doubt any of them are real people), so I'm not in any danger of going viral. If I did decide to self publish, it would have to be at a point where my writing is good enough that I won't look back on it in a year and hate myself for putting it out there. Because of how difficult (insurmountable) the goal of getting published feels sometimes, I'm going to stick with writing what I want to write and trying to be damn good at it.

On the other hand, I think over saturation is just a thing that exists in our world today. On top of writing, I compose music. If you want to talk about massive amounts of static getting in the way, THAT is the world to talk about. Not to cheapen what's happening with self publishing, but with distribution mediums like youtube, soundlcoud, and even itunes, self production of music has already done to that industry what self publishing is doing to writing. For the most part, major record companies will only sign artists that have the potential to go platinum (many of whom are of questionable talent), while everyone else is stuck picking apart whatever is left. In some genres that is completely doable because the listeners look for artists outside of the mainstream, but for any normal genres (rock, pop, etc), you're up the creek if you don't sign with a major label.

For me, this is part of the reason why being creative can be so frustrating. I love writing and composing music, but sometimes it feels like I'm just screaming into the wind. ((Though, to a degree, this is much more pronounced with music than writing. I've always had to try so much harder when making music because my talent level isn't up to par with a lot of other musicians. My writing isn't there yet, but I'm still at a point where I feel like I'm growing with each chapter I put to paper. Regardless of whether I'm publishing, I still feel like each word is a small victory.)) At the end of the day, it all comes down to a mixture of skill, luck, and perseverance. I do believe that I'll get published, but I have no doubt that the process is going to be a long one.
 
Chase Gamwell said:
I'd love to get an agent, but I'm not sure if/when I'll ever get to that point. I'm not super great at self promotion (I only have 40 odd twitter followers and I doubt any of them are real people), so I'm not in any danger of going viral. If I did decide to self publish, it would have to be at a point where my writing is good enough that I won't look back on it in a year and hate myself for putting it out there. Because of how difficult (insurmountable) the goal of getting published feels sometimes, I'm going to stick with writing what I want to write and trying to be damn good at it.

On the other hand, I think over saturation is just a thing that exists in our world today. On top of writing, I compose music. If you want to talk about massive amounts of static getting in the way, THAT is the world to talk about. Not to cheapen what's happening with self publishing, but with distribution mediums like youtube, soundlcoud, and even itunes, self production of music has already done to that industry what self publishing is doing to writing. For the most part, major record companies will only sign artists that have the potential to go platinum (many of whom are of questionable talent), while everyone else is stuck picking apart whatever is left. In some genres that is completely doable because the listeners look for artists outside of the mainstream, but for any normal genres (rock, pop, etc), you're up the creek if you don't sign with a major label.

For me, this is part of the reason why being creative can be so frustrating. I love writing and composing music, but sometimes it feels like I'm just screaming into the wind. ((Though, to a degree, this is much more pronounced with music than writing. I've always had to try so much harder when making music because my talent level isn't up to par with a lot of other musicians. My writing isn't there yet, but I'm still at a point where I feel like I'm growing with each chapter I put to paper. Regardless of whether I'm publishing, I still feel like each word is a small victory.)) At the end of the day, it all comes down to a mixture of skill, luck, and perseverance. I do believe that I'll get published, but I have no doubt that the process is going to be a long one.
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That's a very good point about over-saturation in all things, Chase. And yes, the music industry is a prime example of all that's both good and bad within the creative arts.
 
Jason Byrne said:
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Carol Rose said:
@J. Rook, I'm not trying to be mean here or anything, but there are literally thousands of groups just like those two all over Facebook, some with a lot more members in them. I've been on Facebook under various names for many years. Most reader groups like this end up being nothing but promo dumps, and unless the author groups are well run and the trolls and abusers kept to a minimum, they end up being huge time wasters that don't really advance an author's career. I happen to know the two admins in the author group. One of them has reviewed all my Ravenna Tate books for one of her newer blogs, and they're both level-headed people, so I'm sure they do a great job in there as admins. But honestly, it's just one group of thousands. I'm happy you're enjoying it and getting a lot out of it, but it really isn't that much of a shock that not everyone on Litopia has heard of it. :)
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Did I come over as actually shocked? I was trying to be facetious; failing, obviously. Ah well . . .
 
Lex Black said:
When I wear my standard all-black outfits and wraparound sunglasses, I have had this comparison made on multiple occasions. I can completely freak people out just by standing in a corner and not speaking. It's a good time. :D
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Me too, hahaha!

This was me all through high school, except with a goatee, Victorian coat, and sword necklace. I stood in the corner brooding, and the entire school was convinced tomorrow would be the day I would shoot up the place. People were baffled when they risked talking to me and found out I was bright and friendly. I just wanted to keep most of them away, and only deal with a few people at a time.
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Then in college, I stopped giving a **** and grew my hair to the bottom of my back, added steel vambraces on my forearms, riding boots, and a tricorn hat. People eating nearby me at formal restaurants enjoyed it not-so-much.
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Then, last half of college I discovered alcohol, started going to the gym, cut my hair short, and gave yet less of a ****!
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