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Alistair Roberts
Guest
Interesting, but working out the ending in advance? Certainly not my style, sometimes I have a vague idea, but the story itself usually determines that one. A handy link though ;-)
Mmm, interesting. I'm sure there's lots of good advice there. But it does speak to something I have been mulling over for a while now. Namely, if there are indeed rules to good story-telling, and if everybody sticks to them, then do we not end up with stories that are formulaic and predictable?
But of course, you need to know the rules before you can legitimately break them, I suppose....
But of course, you need to know the rules before you can legitimately break them, I suppose....
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Meerkat
Guest
I usually have an idea of how I want a story to end, but my stories often take their own route, and I let them. For example, I had a story idea a while back and drafted it just fine. Then I went to re-write it, and it just kept going in the wrong (to me) direction. I finally gave up and let it, and I like the direction it wanted to take, but I still want to try the first version again.
Marc -- I think it's that over the millennia, humans have come to expect these rules in stories, and anything that breaks them is considered unsatisfying because we have so many hundreds of thousands of examples of "the way a story is supposed to be told." I agree that you have to know the rules to break them, but I think it would take a literary Einstein to do so successfully.
Marc -- I think it's that over the millennia, humans have come to expect these rules in stories, and anything that breaks them is considered unsatisfying because we have so many hundreds of thousands of examples of "the way a story is supposed to be told." I agree that you have to know the rules to break them, but I think it would take a literary Einstein to do so successfully.
Definitely no planned ending, I look the story to go where my imagination takes me, and I think best on paper (silicon). Twenty two rules is too constraining, the mere thought of it scares me. If you have read extensively you should know what works and what doesn't. So much for theory...
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Karen Gray
Guest
I usually have an idea of a rough ending but not really seen as book 1 equals the story beginning, books 2, 3 and 4 and "tthe middle" and book 5 has the ending 
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Stephen Drake
Guest
I have a problem with the word "perfect". Is there such a thing? Or is it that lofty unattainable goal writers strive for? I've seen some vids on writing and the "formula" and it appears that the "rules" are applied to things already done (as an illustration). With my first book, I knew exactly how it was going to end. The second is still wandering around looking for an exit. It does help if you have a rough idea of where it's going, in my opinion.
Number 22 is the key for me. As an interpretive writer for 25 years, distilling the essence of a story was everything. Taking the entire geologic history of an area, or the complex ecology of a forest and turning it into 225 words for an interpretive panel required getting to the essence, the "so what" of the story. I try to start with that at the beginning of any writing project (fiction or non-fiction), and use it to craft my query letters.
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Karen Gray
Guest
I think, however and whatever you write, it's only truly great if the readers tell you so. Often the opinions of your target market are so different from the prospective agent's or even your own, that confusion can muddy the waters at times. A steep learning curve for some, taken for granted by others. But if the fans are happy... The work does well... simple as. There may be rules that should be bent broken and dismissed according to work and audience, but the one most important and unbreakable rule (which isn't on that list) is that if the readers ain't happy... your doing it wrong... end of.
I had a lecturer (creative writing lecturer) comment that I shouldkeep my work less than 60,000 words. My readers said hell no! My shortest is 96,000 (which I will likely add to once book 5 is complete)
I have had agent feedback praising the storytelling but not liking the number of points of view I have, suggesting I cut it down from 3 to 1. My readers used choice language on that one! Needless to say book 2 had 5 pov's and book 3 a massive 12!
Gosh I could go on, but at the end of the day those who want to buy your book are the ones you are writing for. Not the ones who want a slice of the cake. They are welcome to the cake mind you if they help you get where you're going. But readers first.
Gosh I'm worn out. I don't even know if this post makes any sense lol! It does to me but that ain't saying much!!
I had a lecturer (creative writing lecturer) comment that I shouldkeep my work less than 60,000 words. My readers said hell no! My shortest is 96,000 (which I will likely add to once book 5 is complete)
I have had agent feedback praising the storytelling but not liking the number of points of view I have, suggesting I cut it down from 3 to 1. My readers used choice language on that one! Needless to say book 2 had 5 pov's and book 3 a massive 12!
Gosh I could go on, but at the end of the day those who want to buy your book are the ones you are writing for. Not the ones who want a slice of the cake. They are welcome to the cake mind you if they help you get where you're going. But readers first.
Gosh I'm worn out. I don't even know if this post makes any sense lol! It does to me but that ain't saying much!!
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Jennifer Stone
Guest
I agree, Karen. A writer could spend their entire career writing and re-writing trying to appease every editor and critic, in the hopes of achieving representation. I believe there is an old story of a man, a boy and a donkey, the moral of which being, 'In trying to please others, you please no-one, especially yourself.'
Understandably, there must be at least a good percentage of flexibility, regarding changes to be made. How far would you go? How much do you change before your story is completely unrecognisable from the original?
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Karen Gray
Guest
I'm not the best one to ask likes lol in reality I change very little from my first draft. In fact that prologue you have of mines IS the 1st draft!
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Jennifer Stone
Guest
My end questions were more rhetorical, but i appreciate your efforts lol, I really enjoyed your prologue, but I think you have much more writing experience than me!
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Karen Gray
Guest
Thanks, glad you did by the way when am I getting more of yours? I want to know what happens next damn it!
by the way when am I getting more of yours? I want to know what happens next damn it!
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Jennifer Stone
Guest
how much did i send you? just the first three chapters, or the whole first book? let me know I'll send you the next installment.Thanks, glad you did
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Karen Gray
Guest
I think it was the first 2 chapters. Up to the camp being attacked and the women running away
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Jennifer Stone
Guest
I think it was the first 2 chapters. Up to the camp being attacked and the women running away
Not a problem, I can send you the rest in about 10 minutes. At this stage, it's part edited, still ongoing, so any comments would be welcomed, as always.
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