Your Opinion Is Needed To Help Shape The Future Of The Colony

[AgentPete]

Thank you SO much to everyone who’s taken time to contribute their thoughts and suggestions in this thread. It will remain open for another day or two, so if you (or a friend) have more insights to add, please don’t delay.

Once the thread has been closed, I’ll carefully summarise these suggestions into an action plan that I’ll share with you for further comment. This will then be implemented in a test site (i.e. not this site) that will only be open to those who have posted in this thread, for their final thoughts before everything is moved over to the production site (i.e. this one).

Not everything you've suggested will be possible. We have to work within the constraints of pre-existing software. And not everything will work (we’re a constant work-in-progress after all). But with your help, there’s a lot we can and will achieve.

As each day goes by, I’m more and more persuaded that we are living through one of the most fateful times in the modern publishing era. A time of great opportunities but also of great peril (“interesting times…”). Let’s try to enjoy the journey together

 

[Vagabond Heart]

Hey all.
May I just weigh in on the ‘giving/taking feedback’ debate?
I feel I should say I haven’t read everything that’s been put on here about that, but I have read quite a few posts.
And I think I understand where you guys are coming from. It rankles to put loads of effort into helping someone, who doesn’t help in return.

But I have some other thoughts that I’d like to chuck in the mix.

Firstly, some people we give feedback to may not feel either confident or ready to return that favour yet. They may feel overwhelmed with the feedback they’ve received, and gone quietly away for a bit to let it sink in.
Or, they just don’t think they know enough for their feedback to be of much value. So they hang back.
The nice thing about the present, open, system is that everyone can offer or receive at their own pace.

Secondly, the reasons we give feedback can be complicated. In my case, this is mostly self-interest.
I don’t give feedback so others will give me the same in return.
For one thing, I know you will give it anyway, because you guys are awesome and supportive.
But I give it because I learn so much from doing so.

Giving someone else feedback is a free crash course and master class in how to spot what works or doesn’t work. It’s an honour to be given someone’s precious and painstaking work, and know I will come out smarter and a better writer myself at the end of it.

Again, some people may not have figured that out yet, or may feel daunted at the responsibility. Personally, I think it’s their loss. But I’m glad that the system we have allows people to take that at their own pace too.

Ultimately, the strength of this group is the supportive ground it provides for us to develop as writers, at our own speed and in our own time.

If some people make the most of that, while others dip a toe in, get what they think they needed, and trolley off again - is that a big problem? Isn’t it what happens in all types of groups? Do we want them to hang around, and feel they have to read our word-babies, if their hearts aren’t in it? I’d rather just let them on their way.

So, that’s my musings. You don’t need to agree with me, but thanks for listening. Xxxx

 

[RK Wallis]

But I give it because I learn so much from doing so.

Totally this

 

[CarolMS]

@Carol MS

Additions made etc.

You're the best! What would we do without you???

 

[CarolMS]

Just thought I'd share a thought about terminology. . . When I first started looking at the Litopia website, I saw "Workshops" and assumed it was where we go to sign up for classes or webinars, since that's how the word is most often used in the U.S.. Seminars are similar, but usually indicate a longer or more formal class with a lecture format. At least that's how I've always understood these terms, though I recognize there are likely other interpretations, often regional. I recall hearing someone in a critique group I was previously involved in say they "workshopped" their writing in such a group (which may have been in an MFA college program), and was surprised by the use. In the U.S. today, at least, it seems far more common to refer to groups of people who critique the writing of other group members "critique groups" and to say the material has been critiqued or received feedback. I'm guessing in the UK people say it's been workshopped. It might be wise to include both terminology approaches in instructions on the website. Just a thought.

 

[Eva Ulian]

I think there should be a limit to how much is said by anyone person on anyone post. The never ending meandering that goes on confuses and diverts attention to what is the point. LESS IS MORE and somehow people should be made aware of that, also for their own benefit and work. Making people focus succinctly on what is essential is the best gift anyone can give to anyone else because it shows you respect that person's time and energy that they can offer others.

 

[Pamela Jo]

Archive if you must, but please dont lock. I've learned so much from old threads and posts. Give us the reserve stack to wander through, blow dust off and peruse at leisure.

 

[Jonny]

Not sure if this is just me.

But a few years ago we had a bit of a change and the upshot seemed to be when photo attachments are added to posts the resolution often drops as does the ability to enlarge them so we can read what's on them etc.

I think the change might have been to help with storage space on the server? And if that's the case no worries.

But if not, it might be worth looking at making it better. Currently (particularly on laptop) I often have great difficulty in reading the text (if the photo contains a relevant piece of the aforementioned).

 

[E G Logan]

Giving someone else feedback is a free crash course and master class in how to spot what works or doesn’t work. It’s an honour to be given someone’s precious and painstaking work, and know I will come out smarter and a better writer myself at the end of it.

Ultimately, the strength of this group is the supportive ground it provides for us to develop as writers, at our own speed and in our own time.

I do SO agree.

 

[Ancora Imparo]

There are so many great points in this thread, these are just the few that jumped out at me.

1) Not enough people/writers know about Litopia. I feel we need a marketing plan, even if only passive. Lots of Litopians have blogs/vlogs etc – could we utilise our collective media presence and share more about Litopia? It costs us – and Litopia – nothing. I often share our Craft Chats on my blog, but not always. So I’m aiming to do more on that.

2) Our critiquing 'rules' need more thought. Our system isn’t working as well as it could, to encourage good behaviour and discourage bad. I'm strongly against bringing payment, tipping or anything else connected to any monetary exchange into the equation of critiquing. I believe that is far too open to abuse. (It also goes against what I believe the ethos of Litopia to be.) In my view, how much money you have, or don’t have, should not determine whether or not you can be supported / helped / encouraged in your writing by other members of Litopia.

That said, although I agree with Vagabond that some people will always take what they can and run, and no, that’s not the end of the world – I also believe more could be done to discourage the users and takers, and the just plain rude. There should be a balance. Right now, it’s skewed towards making it too easy for those who want something for nothing, and that can put off other decent members who feel they're being used. I know that has made me step back in the past.

A low-key digital ‘reward’ system, as mentioned by Nikky, might work by making this issue visible, especially if how often someone critiques work is just added quietly to their profile – it would be interesting to see. How we discourage the users and abusers and encourage more engaged members is up to Pete, but I think we need to do something.

3) The forum needs updated, clarified and simplified. I agree. Carol’s point about the word ‘Workshops’ is a good one, too. Yes, in the UK and especially at Uni, we ‘workshopped’ our writing. But one of the great strengths of Litopia is how diverse its members are and how global our community is. So perhaps we need to use words in our headings that are clear and specific, rather than simply UK or US usage.

Good luck, Pete!

 

[Hannah F]

Yes, good luck @AgentPete. You've given yourself a tough task here!

 

[Peyton Stafford]

Thank you SO much to everyone who’s taken time to contribute their thoughts and suggestions in this thread. It will remain open for another day or two, so if you (or a friend) have more insights to add, please don’t delay.

Once the thread has been closed, I’ll carefully summarise these suggestions into an action plan that I’ll share with you for further comment. This will then be implemented in a test site (i.e. not this site) that will only be open to those who have posted in this thread, for their final thoughts before everything is moved over to the production site (i.e. this one).

Not everything you've suggested will be possible. We have to work within the constraints of pre-existing software. And not everything will work (we’re a constant work-in-progress after all). But with your help, there’s a lot we can and will achieve.

As each day goes by, I’m more and more persuaded that we are living through one of the most fateful times in the modern publishing era. A time of great opportunities but also of great peril (“interesting times…”). Let’s try to enjoy the journey together

Good luck, and I look forward to seeing what you come up with.

 

[Rich.]

Great thread. Loads of interesting/challenging ideas. My two penn'orth:

The Litopia method for giving and receiving writing critiques is the best critique method I've ever seen on a writing website, and when used correctly is, I think, priceless. But I've always wondered how many people actually read and absorb it (and it does take a while to absorb – I've given some needlessly re-writerly critiques on occasions when I've forgotten its tenets). Highlighting the method with brighter lights, and proactively and continually encouraging its use in the writing groups would be positive, I think.

And my second suggestion is this: remove the like button. When I was a guardian here, I successfully campaigned for its removal from the writing workshops. Here's the post where I explain why it was removed. Subsequently, the like button returned, and indeed offered a greater range of emojis. I would now suggest that Litopia would be a better place if the like button were removed from the entire site. This is a site for writers. Writers are people who have, or aspire to have, an elevated command of language. "I can't put it into words" is a phrase that no writer should ever accept. We put things into words. That's what we do. Emojis are not words. As a complete response to someone's post, they are an ambiguous shorthand that encourages factionalism, ego-polishing, and low-level anxiety (if I don't like this post, will people think that I don't like it?). [Please note that I'm not arguing for the removal of emojis within posts but only the removal of the like button.] I think a writing site should encourage written communication. Facebook introduced the like button in 2009, and very quickly social networks morphed into social media platforms, with all their incumbent echo-chambery nonsense. Litopia is a network, right? It's not a platform. We're not here to soapbox at each other. We're here to learn from each other, develop friendships, and to write. So, please, be a network, not a platform. Remove the like button.

 

[RK Wallis]

The Litopia method for giving and receiving writing critiques is the best critique method I've ever seen on a writing website, and when used correctly is, I think, priceless. But I've always wondered how many people actually read and absorb it (and it does take a while to absorb – I've given some needlessly re-writerly critiques on occasions when I've forgotten its tenets). Highlighting the method with brighter lights, and proactively and continually encouraging its use in the writing groups would be positive, I think.

I totally agree. I constantly rewrite comments because I've slipped into old habits.

 

[AgentPete]

(Just realised I liked Rich's post... whoops! )

Will be closing this thread in a few hours, last call for entries pls.

 

[Bloo]

I've been away for a bit, so i'm late to the party (per usual). How about something like Reedsy whete we can store a novel here? Allow only one novel per paid sub to keep the server space down.

I only skimmed through the other responses, and I'm under the gun. Apologies if someone thought of it first.

 

[Brooke]

honestly... dark mode is all i need amazing suggestions from everyone here!

 

[Bloo]

honestly... dark mode is all i need amazing suggestions from everyone here!

A dark mode to match my soul. So yes - I want it, too

 

[AgentPete]

And with that, I'm closing the thread, and unpinning it.

Will take some days to process everything here and turn it into a working doc. I'll let everyone who has contributed here know when there's a doc to discuss.

 

[AgentPete]

Some of us scrape the ~£10 per month for full memberships and huddles. If there was another financial block to gaining critique (as there is in the real world), people like me would find this Litopia opportunity beyond their grasp as well. Also, people who may not necessarily be the best at critique may see payment for beta reading as a good income thread (as per the real world) and do it for financial gain rather just because they care.

(This thread is closed while I work on all the updates it covers, so you won’t be able to reply to this)

I’m well aware of the financial strain that many aspiring writing face these days, probably more so now than in recent history. We’re not going to be imposing more costs on folk here. The basic model is – keep the membership costs as low as possible, include as much as possible.

This is only going to work out if we succeed in building our membership numbers, hence so much effort going into the current restructuring.