The hardest thing about writing?

Paul Whybrow

Interstitial Publishing

  • Paul Whybrow
  • Replies: 27
D

Small article accepted

  • David Steele
  • Replies: 21
Status
Not open for further replies.
J

jaguest21

Guest
I was interested to see what everyone else struggled with when they write - and maybe everyone could share some useful tips on how they overcome it.

Personally, I think the hardest thing is coming up with a thousand different words for "said" without sounding contrived.
 
Interesting because, I was on some facebook page for writers (for a short time), where they quoted some so-called expert. Don't remember if it was an Editor or Writer, but they said something like stick with "said" and don't try and vary it!! That'd drive me nuts, hence why I walked away from that one. In fact I have to keep editing myself for almost constantly starting sentences with "but" or "yet". Sometimes I like to add a little extra to add a sense of atmosphere and to break up the monotony of he/she said. ie 'she replied, humourously' or 'he answered, with a sense of dread.' Enough said, yes? ;)
 
Stick with "said" and "asked" otherwise it's very jarring to read. You want to avoid slapping on dialogue tags like "laughed" "growled" "hissed" etc. People don't hiss, grow, or laugh when they speak. They speak, period. An occasional variance to emphasize something or make a point is probably all right, but honestly? You'll drive an editor crazy with it. I try to avoid dialogue tags whenever possible. I'd rather show my readers what the characters are doing around the speech.

As to starting a sentence with "but" or "yet" I see nothing wrong with it once in a while. It's best to vary your sentence structure anyway otherwise your prose ends up with a staccato feel to it.

Try to avoid using phrases like "he replied humorously" or anything that tacks an adverb on the end of he said/she replied. That's telling. Instead, show your readers how he replied. The corners of his mouth curled up in a smile. "Oh, really? That's interesting." See the difference? You still have the dialogue, I'm assuming we know who is speaking from the context around it, and you have the action before the speech that sets up a picture in the reader's mind of how he looks as he speaks those lines. You've accomplished the same thing, but you've avoided telling the reader what you want them to see. You've shown it instead, and given them a visual. Anything you can do to push your readers deeper into the minds of your characters will have them more invested in those characters, and they'll keep turning pages to find out what happens next.
 
As a non-fiction writer my struggle is rather different: it's writing book proposals. A necessary evil, but I HATE doing it.
 
Katie-Ellen Hazeldine said:
I can imagine. How do you choose whatever will be your next subject, Brian?
Click to expand...

I do worry that at some point I'll run out, but to date, something always comes to me (usually while walking the dog). I just look for a science based topic that a) excites me and b) might be of interest to people will buy books.

The trouble with non-fiction proposals is that you sell the book before it's written. This is good in terms of limited effort before a committed publisher, but the trouble is you have to make the proposal a condensed version of what the book is going to say, before you've researched the book. It really is blood out of a stone stuff.
 
Tara Rose said:
Stick with "said" and "asked" otherwise it's very jarring to read. You want to avoid slapping on dialogue tags like "laughed" "growled" "hissed" etc. People don't hiss, grow, or laugh when they speak. They speak, period. An occasional variance to emphasize something or make a point is probably all right, but honestly? You'll drive an editor crazy with it. I try to avoid dialogue tags whenever possible. I'd rather show my readers what the characters are doing around the speech.

As to starting a sentence with "but" or "yet" I see nothing wrong with it once in a while. It's best to vary your sentence structure anyway otherwise your prose ends up with a staccato feel to it.

Try to avoid using phrases like "he replied humorously" or anything that tacks an adverb on the end of he said/she replied. That's telling. Instead, show your readers how he replied. The corners of his mouth curled up in a smile. "Oh, really? That's interesting." See the difference? You still have the dialogue, I'm assuming we know who is speaking from the context around it, and you have the action before the speech that sets up a picture in the reader's mind of how he looks as he speaks those lines. You've accomplished the same thing, but you've avoided telling the reader what you want them to see. You've shown it instead, and given them a visual. Anything you can do to push your readers deeper into the minds of your characters will have them more invested in those characters, and they'll keep turning pages to find out what happens next.
Click to expand...
Well said!
 
jaguest21 said:
I was interested to see what everyone else struggled with when they write - and maybe everyone could share some useful tips on how they overcome it.

Personally, I think the hardest thing is coming up with a thousand different words for "said" without sounding contrived.
Click to expand...
don't know if you've tried this or not, but i find it helps to write a list down the side of a piece of paper A-Z and think of a word starting with each letter ie. answered, breathed, called etc. You'll be surprised how many you can think of
 
Writing scenes of necessary filler is the most difficult part for me. Forcing myself to sit down and hash out something as simple as transportation from the location of one scene to another or to force my characters to talk out something essential to character development, but not necessarily something that is super interesting to me personally.

I remember JK Rowling saying once that writing the quidditch games in HP were torture after a while. I can completely relate (in a non-billionaire, non-published, not at all famous kind of a way)

I also struggled with "said" and I read something similar to previous responders... so I do occasionally modify it if the setting works, but otherwise, generally stick with good old "said".

I also struggle with editing- not creatively, but logistically. When I write my original drafts, I never bother with indenting or page numbers or double checking my grammar... the editing process for me is sllllooooowwww and tedious. I imagine it is that way for most novelists, but I am feeling particularly whiney about it right now, as I just finished my sequel and am supposed to be editing it as we speak...
 
Indent is easy enough with tabbing, but any good publisher program should allow a style setting with indent so it's done automatically. It would save you a lot of time, especially when an indent can cause a paragraph to flow into another line, and push a paragraph into overflowing into the next page. My understanding is editors do not like a paragraph broken between pages. Page numbers should also be set up with the very first page, and you never have to bother again. Also again, adding them in will bugger up the paragraphs etc etc. ;)
 
For me its loooooooong sentences. Loads of commas, then I read it back and I'm like whoa! I need to change that lol

Also religion, I try to keep religion out of my writing for obvious reasons, and then I get to a bit where a 'Good god!' is what I really want to say, but I can't lol
 
Yep, Tara's right. Keep to "said" and "asked" mostly. Apparently reader's unconsciously skip over them. I'm an ellipsis girl too *sigh* and one sentence paragraphs *double sigh* and...and...and
 
I have to disagree to a degree re the use of 'said'
Sometimes it is better to use 'replied', 'offered', 'insisted' or 'demanded' instead of 'said.'
To just say 'said' over and over again makes the writing very monotone and I don't know if it's just my dysbraxia, but the same word repeated over and over is more jarring to me than a carefully selected variety of words.
 
Karen Gray said:
I have to disagree to a degree re the use of 'said'
Sometimes it is better to use 'replied', 'offered', 'insisted' or 'demanded' instead of 'said.'
To just say 'said' over and over again makes the writing very monotone and I don't know if it's just my dysbraxia, but the same word repeated over and over is more jarring to me than a carefully selected variety of words.
Click to expand...
I think most of us would agree those words are fine when used sparingly, Karen. But that chortled, bristled and snorted are not.
 
The thing about dialogue tags is that you don't HAVE to use them. If you only have two people in the conversation, you know which one is speaking when you're careful about interspersing action. Your readers will follow it.

At the risk of sounding conceited, this is from A Touch Of Sin, my latest Siren contract. Bear in mind it's erotic romance and readers expect the lust, so I've taken out one sentence, without ruining flow. But notice how I avoid using dialogue tags. You have action here and there which gives you a visual, and there are only two people speaking - the heroine (Savannah) and one of the heroes (Ethan) so you can follow who is saying what. I've already set up in previous paragraphs it's only them, out on a date. We're in Savannah's POV.

***

He arrived at her home five minutes early, and Savannah was ready. “Hi there. You look wonderful.” He did indeed. He wore a perfect suit that was light enough for warm weather, but not so formal that she felt underdressed. He smelled incredible, and she wanted to run her fingers through his dark hair. In the evening light his blue eyes looked like sapphires.

“Um…so do you. Wow. Turn around. Let’s have a look.”

Savannah grinned, then twirled slowly.

“Is that Furstenberg?”

Her eyes widened. “It’s a knock-off, but tell me why you know designers.”

He laughed, soft and easy. “My sister is a buyer for Saks in New York. You have no idea the endless emails I have to endure, complete with pictures.”

She linked her arm in his as they descended the front steps toward his Porsche. “Is that where you’re from?” No one knew.

He shook his head. “Jersey.”

“As in New Jersey?”

He opened the passenger door and gave her a grin. “Yes. Sorry. I’ve been gone for years but I still speak like I’m there, don’t I?”

“Well, we all guessed it was Easy Coast, but no one was entirely sure where.”

He slid into the driver’s seat and glanced at her sideways. “Now you know my deep, dark secret. What will you do with it?”

His gaze traveled down to where the fold at the bottom of her dress had fallen open, exposing her thighs about halfway up. Savannah didn’t cover her legs. Instead she held his gaze steady. “I’ll take it to my grave.”

He shook his slightly as if he’d zoned out for a second, and then he backed out of the driveway. “It’s not that important, is it? I mean not being from here?”

“Everyone knew you weren’t from here the moment you spoke.”

He laughed again. “Touché. Four years at Vandy and five years in Ohio didn’t kill the accent I guess.”

“Not even close. So, Vandy, eh? Great med school.”

“The best.”

“Did you do your residency in Ohio then?”

“Yes. In Cleveland, at MetroHealth Medical Center.”

She nodded, having no clue about that hospital other than hearing the name a few times in her nursing career. “And now you’re here. What do you think of Sin?”

He grinned again. “The hospital, the town, or the concept?”

Oh my! “Let’s start with the town and work our way forward.”

Was that a soft moan she’d just heard? “I like the town. I really do. Jersey is so big, noisy, and dirty. I can hear the crickets at night here, and the stars are beautiful.”

“I agree.” She shifted in her seat to face him as they made their way onto Interstate 24. “Where in New Jersey are you from?”

“Alpine. It’s on the Hudson across from Yonkers.”

“And now the hospital. It must seem very small town compared to Vandy and MetroHealth.”

“Are you familiar with MetroHealth?”

“Only by reputation.”

“I wanted a change of pace which is why I jumped at the chance here. And taking care of people who have been hurt is the same everywhere.”

“Do you plan on staying, or will you go somewhere else to become an attending? Or do you plan on going into private practice?”

He cocked his head to one side. “I’m not sure yet.” Then he gave her legs another glance. “Depends on whether or not I find a reason to stay.”
 
Last edited:
I think the above is an excellent example Tara, and will benefit all of us ;)
 
Tara Rose said:
The thing about dialogue tags is that you don't HAVE to use them. If you only have two people in the conversation, you know which one is speaking when you're careful about interspersing action. Your readers will follow it..”
Click to expand...
Well done.
 
Tara Rose said:
Someone mentioned indenting. DON'T use tabs. Use your Format Paragraph setting and set the first line to indent 0.5. That's standard. It's easier on the editor's end if you do this ahead of time rather than use tabs.
Click to expand...

Great tip! Thanks! It was just in time, I was about to spend my day tabbing this darn sequel! :)
 
EPHahn said:
Great tip! Thanks! It was just in time, I was about to spend my day tabbing this darn sequel! :)
Click to expand...

Depending on what publisher / word program you use, you should be able to highlight the whole text, or do that in stages, right click and select paragraph. Then you should be able to select to indent first line by 'x' amount, as Tara says, half inch (or 1.2cm). Next document you can do that before writing. I've removed my tabbing, and set it up as suggested in the last day or so ;)
 
A
Katie-Ellen Hazeldine said:
It needs such a lot of energy and time; assertiveness, even, not just to write, but to defend the time spent writing a first novel, while meeting all more immediately pressing obligations. I wouldn't be doing it at all if I didn't feel it as a need.
Click to expand...
A need, a desire, a driving force within ... and let's be honest, if we didn't enjoy it (even the tortuous days) we wouldn't write.
 
The hardest thing about writing is finding your own voice.

If we're worried about whether the word said is invisible as some help-u-write authors suggest, we're not writers, we're editors.

It's the voice that is difficult.
 
Dudley said:
The hardest thing about writing is finding your own voice.

If we're worried about whether the word said is invisible as some help-u-write authors suggest, we're not writers, we're editors.

It's the voice that is difficult.
Click to expand...

There is no such thing as a 'voice.' You can go chasing your supposed 'voice' all your life and never find it because it doesn't exist.

From the moment you begin to write, or type as most of us do now, that is your voice. Individual and distinct, it will twist and curve and develop, but it will never change all that much, because if you want to get down to the nitty gritty, the writer's 'voice' is your mind creating the story and translating it into words.

At the risk of irritating everyone, I have another word Re Dialogue tags. I think we can all agree that the YA genre is the biggest and most successful genre out there...why? Because of young people, lazy readers and non readers. I can guarantee that there are more adult non readers reading YA than there are teens and young adults. Most writers who write for adults only, forget this fact, and it is a fact. Now non readers are non readers for several reasons, poor education and learning disabilities, champion among them. Dialogue tags HELP these people. I should know, technically I am one of them.

To someone like me dialogue tags add a physical aspect to the words. Most people with learning difficulties are physical learners. Most people who have been let down in their education have been conditioned into being physical learners.

So to say someone hissed or growled or laughed, adds a physical tag to the words, and the reader can picture the facial expression, and the body language that would go along with it. They could imagine the way the words would feel in their own mouth if they said them and therefore glean a better understanding of the text.

Having taught people with a variety of disabilities, learning disorders and just plain old bad education, I can say with absolute certainty, that dialogue tags ENCOURAGE their reading.

The lovely piece of writing Tara posted earlier for example. Perfect and technically correct in every way... and yet, someone from the enormous group of readers that I am talking about would get half way down that sample of text and lose interest because to them it is completely monotone. Not because the writing is monotone, but because their brains work in a different way.

SO I know most of you will disregard this because you are writing for people who don't have issues reading, and that's fine. I just felt I needed to point out the fact that sometimes the 'rules' exclude the majority in favor of the minority xxx
 
Interesting Karen, I can see where Tara is coming from, and I've read similar comments elsewhere. But I also see your point, and wonder if a blend, or variety of approaches to both views wouldn't break up any possibility of it becoming monotone to certain readers? One would have to be particular cautious and not make too much of a 'mish-mash' out of it, but if done sensibly it could provide an easy to read / sense the emotions affair. Catering for all types of readers is always going to be difficult.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Paul Whybrow

Interstitial Publishing

  • Paul Whybrow
  • Replies: 27
D

Small article accepted

  • David Steele
  • Replies: 21
Back
Back
Top