It's not whether but how one is rejected...

Emurelda

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Passive versus active voice chuckle I just saw posted on Facebook

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Lex Black said:
Wow. Not only did I only ever get rejections, I only got the lowest tiers of them in each case.
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I wouldn't worry about it. I very much doubt if the tiering is rigorous, and in any case it remains as subjective as the actual 'yes or no' decision. The thing which really annoys me is that if the editor is going to take the time to tier the rejections, why not give the author some useful information instead? It only has to be one or two words, such as 'Over-written' or 'Poor dialogue'. That would be so much more helpful than giving tiers of response which really say no more than 'You weren't close' or 'You were close'.
 
Literary agents are funny ones. An English one, a male, said he liked the style of my writing but not the story, while an American one, a female, said she liked the story but not the style. However, editors are going to keep on pretending that everything depends on them. Although, like hypocrites, they tell us choosing a manuscript is subjective, editors are going to treat that task as an exact science to make sure that what they publish is worth buying. Time for the publishing world to change. Just publish on the Internet and become known, either by creating a (subtle!) scandal or else.
 
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I sympathise and have also felt this upon receiving a "no thanks" after sending an agent what was clearly The Best Novel Ever Written. However, I am reminded of dear old Oscar: "Never speak ill of Society, Algernon. Only people who can't get into it do that."
 
I actually received a nice rejection letter yesterday, one that wasn't a form letter and written by a real human-being. It came from a publisher called Myriad Editions, who are located in the seaside town of Brighton. They have an open submissions policy, and as they already publish a few thrillers I sent them my manuscript. I've noticed that agencies and publishers outside of London are a lot friendlier than those long-established firms in swanky parts of the capital. Some of them are, to quote a phrase that an Australian friend of mine uses,'so far up themselves, that they can't see daylight.'

This is the nicest 'thanks, but no thanks' letter I've had so far. It's a sign of how pathetic/determined I am that I take it as encouragement!

Dear Paul,

Thank you very much for sending the information about your novel, THE PERFECT MURDERER, to Myriad. I have now had a chance to consider your submission and discuss it with my colleagues. While we felt there was a great deal that sounded intriguing and original about the novel, ultimately we don't feel it is quite right for our list, unfortunately.

The concept is a really compelling one, and very much of the zeitgeist given fears about the online world and how much the human capacity for violence finds expression through the internet – especially the possibility for causing harm remotely (as explored in the recent film GOOD KILL and the TV series HUMANS). But in terms of genre the book isn't right for our publishing programme. Although we've published one or two thrillers, when we have they have tended to be more domestic in tone and subject matter. Your book sounds like it would benefit from being published by quite a mainstream commercial publisher able to give it the necessary marketing to reach the right readership.

I'm sorry not to be writing with better news, but thank you for giving me the chance to consider your work, and I hope that another publisher will be keen to take the book on and give it the launch it deserves.

All best wishes,
Vicky
 
Bernard Stacey said:
I sympathise and have also felt this upon receiving a "no thanks" after sending an agent what was clearly The Best Novel Ever Written. However, I am reminded of dear old Oscar: "Never speak ill of Society, Algernon. Only people who can't get into it do that."
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Bernard, your quote reminded me of something that Ralph Waldo Emerson said - 'People do not deserve good writing. They are so pleased with bad.'
 
Monique GOLAY said:
Literary agents are funny ones. An English one, a male, said he liked the style of my writing but not the story, while an American one, a female, said she liked the story but not the style. However, editors are going to keep on pretending that everything depends on them. Although, like hypocrites, they tell us choosing a manuscript is subjective, editors are going to treat that task as an exact science to make sure that what they publish is worth buying. Time for the publishing world to change. Just publish on the Internet and become known, either by creating a scandal or else.
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One aspect of submitting to literary agencies and publishers that is rarely mentioned, is that the first person to appraise your query, synopsis and writing sample is unlikely to be anyone of executive status. Instead, there will be a low wage editorial assistant or a no wage internee, who is trying to learn about the publishing industry, trawling through the submissions . They will be using their employer's stated parameters for submissions, which determine whether your work makes it out of the slush-pile and onto a slightly smaller pile - things such as double spacing, number of chapters, font, word count, length of synopsis etc. Straying away from any of these requirements may well see your submission binned or deleted.
 
Here is an insightful way that agents pick their potentials. Notice how Julia Churchill (agent) kept encouraging a new writer because she listened to her work - a verbal submission? - rather than the conventional ways. Even though the writer only wrote one line!!!! Festivals are a way in too.

Well that's up to each person to decide for themselves - not always practical if you are disadvantaged in some way be it physically or financially.

 
Paul Whybrow said:
I actually received a nice rejection letter yesterday, one that wasn't a form letter and written by a real human-being. It came from a publisher called Myriad Editions, who are located in the seaside town of Brighton. They have an open submissions policy, and as they already publish a few thrillers I sent them my manuscript. I've noticed that agencies and publishers outside of London are a lot friendlier than those long-established firms in swanky parts of the capital. Some of them are, to quote a phrase that an Australian friend of mine uses,'so far up themselves, that they can't see daylight.'

This is the nicest 'thanks, but no thanks' letter I've had so far. It's a sign of how pathetic/determined I am that I take it as encouragement!

Dear Paul,

Thank you very much for sending the information about your novel, THE PERFECT MURDERER, to Myriad. I have now had a chance to consider your submission and discuss it with my colleagues. While we felt there was a great deal that sounded intriguing and original about the novel, ultimately we don't feel it is quite right for our list, unfortunately.

The concept is a really compelling one, and very much of the zeitgeist given fears about the online world and how much the human capacity for violence finds expression through the internet – especially the possibility for causing harm remotely (as explored in the recent film GOOD KILL and the TV series HUMANS). But in terms of genre the book isn't right for our publishing programme. Although we've published one or two thrillers, when we have they have tended to be more domestic in tone and subject matter. Your book sounds like it would benefit from being published by quite a mainstream commercial publisher able to give it the necessary marketing to reach the right readership.

I'm sorry not to be writing with better news, but thank you for giving me the chance to consider your work, and I hope that another publisher will be keen to take the book on and give it the launch it deserves.

All best wishes,
Vicky
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This is probably the best rejection EVER.
 
I probably got the nastiest rejection EVER.

First, the agent sounded quite nice:

_________Quote
Dear Monique,
If you have already been rejected by agents regarding this manuscript then the best thing to do would be to begin writing something new. No amount of editing will change the basic concept and flaws in your narrative. I feel very concerned that you did not get the best deal with your previous editor and I too feel that his commission is very high regarding the small amount of work he actually did for you. If you do write something new then please do contact me as you will get a proper edit that will help you to become a better writer. Very best wishes. Shelley Instone.
Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
___________End quote
Note: she could have been kind enough to tell me WHAT flaws. I re-submitted several months later and got this VERY NASTY answer:

_____________Quote
Dear Monique, Thank you for contacting me again. I've now looked at your files and I don't feel that you are ready for the editing process. Your writing skills are extremely poor and there isn't room for improvement. Best Wishes, Shelley
Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
______End quote

Why do I keep on writing? I think the person is contradicting herself. If my skills are, as she so kindly said, "extremely poor", then there should be room for improvement, shouldn't there? Following her logic, if somebody's writing skills are excellent, then there would be a great deal of room for improvement. I need this to be explained to me.
Anyway, thank you, Shelley Instone, especially if you're a very famous writer yourself. You'll probably make the next "Hobbit."
 
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Monique GOLAY said:
I got probably the worst rejection EVER.

First, the agent sounded quite nice:

_________Quote
Dear Monique,
If you have already been rejected by agents regarding this manuscript then the best thing to do would be to begin writing something new. No amount of editing will change the basic concept and flaws in your narrative. I feel very concerned that you did not get the best deal with your previous editor and I too feel that his commission is very high regarding the small amount of work he actually did for you. If you do write something new then please do contact me as you will get a proper edit that will help you to become a better writer. Very best wishes. Shelley Instone.
Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
___________End quote
I re-submitted several months later and got this VERY KIND answer:

_____________Quote
Dear Monique, Thank you for contacting me again. I've now looked at your files and I don't feel that you are ready for the editing process. Your writing skills are extremely poor and there isn't room for improvement. Best Wishes, Shelley
Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
______End quote

Why do I keep on writing? I think the person is contradicting herself. If my skills are, as she so kindly said, "extremely poor", then there should be room for improvement, shouldn't there?
Thank you, Shelley, especially if you're a famous writer yourself.
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Jee-sus!:eek:
Those are impressive rejection letters, @Monique GOLAY. Well done you! You'll be able to pull off a devastating,
"oh, you're the agent that sent me that blistering rejection. You work on commission right? Big mistake. Huge. I have to go write now."
pretty-woman-1.jpg
 
Ok i just got it..it's an agent...just googled them. Keep on keeping on.

I sometimes look at my MS after reading published novels and get frightened of the rejection process! Which may explain why i haven't made dozens of submissions yet.
 
Monique GOLAY said:
I probably got the nastiest rejection EVER.

First, the agent sounded quite nice:

_________Quote
Dear Monique,
If you have already been rejected by agents regarding this manuscript then the best thing to do would be to begin writing something new. No amount of editing will change the basic concept and flaws in your narrative. I feel very concerned that you did not get the best deal with your previous editor and I too feel that his commission is very high regarding the small amount of work he actually did for you. If you do write something new then please do contact me as you will get a proper edit that will help you to become a better writer. Very best wishes. Shelley Instone.
Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
___________End quote
Note: she could have been kind enough to tell me WHAT flaws. I re-submitted several months later and got this VERY NASTY answer:

_____________Quote
Dear Monique, Thank you for contacting me again. I've now looked at your files and I don't feel that you are ready for the editing process. Your writing skills are extremely poor and there isn't room for improvement. Best Wishes, Shelley
Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
______End quote

Why do I keep on writing? I think the person is contradicting herself. If my skills are, as she so kindly said, "extremely poor", then there should be room for improvement, shouldn't there? Following her logic, if somebody's writing skills are excellent, then there would be a great deal of room for improvement. I need this to be explained to me.
Anyway, thank you, Shelley Instone, especially if you're a very famous writer yourself. You'll probably make the next "Hobbit."
Click to expand...

It's really hard @Monique GOLAY not to feel bitter but try not to take it personally or read too much into it. You have a nice community of people here who can help you. You're a fellow physics teacher :) and that's always a plus for me :D

Stay professional at all costs. The moment of insanity will pass ;)
 
Alistair Roberts said:
One needs a hide of armour to withstand the rejection process. It's sad, but understandable at the same time. Toughen up, edit and send, then write, then edit.... repeat endlessly lol
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Add this to things that should be hung over the door into Litopia. I'm going to have to compile them, and wood-burn a plaque.
 
Following the nasty agent's logic, she should be expert enough to tell Stephen King: "Oh, you can still improve, and a lot, mind, Mr. King!" Mieux vaut rire que pleurer.
 
I've been reluctant to jump into this but I can't stay silent any longer. And this is NOT directed at any one person. It's a general post. The more you take rejection personally, the less you'll learn from it and grow as a writer. The worst mistake any of us can make is to believe our writing is already perfect and no one can help us improve it. Between my three pen names I have nearly 70 books published and you know what? I learn something new each and every single time I write another one, and each time my editor sends one along for revision. Every. Single. Time.

The publishing world HAS changed. Drastically. Agents and editors are no longer the only gatekeepers. People self-publish and self-edit, but guess what? That doesn't mean the writing is stellar. Unfortunately, MOST of the time it's pretty darn bad. Is every editor 100% correct? No. But learning the basics - learning the craft - is part of this game.

Agents and editors are in business to make money. If they don't believe they can sell it, they won't take a chance on it. Period. End of sentence. That's how the world of traditional publishing works and that's also why so many thumbed their noses at it and self-published.

My own writing is not perfect, nor will it ever be. I'm human. I accept that. But I also work very hard to constantly improve it. I take every single review to heart. Even the bad ones, and you'd better believe I get them. I take every single suggestion my editor gives me to heart. I may not change everything to suit her tastes, but we're talking fine points here, not glaring errors or sentence structure oddities. And as for reviews, even the mean-spirited ones often (usually) contain a kernel of truth.

So honestly… if you can't see the errors or faulty flow in your own writing yet, you're not ready to submit. And if you refuse to take critique about that, or refuse to put in the work to improve your writing, you're going to find this is a long, difficult road.

By all means keep writing, but buy, beg, or borrow some craft books. Take classes. Pick apart the books in your genre that you love to figure out how that author did it. How they pulled you into the story and kept you there. Try to emulate (not copy) that, then develop your own style. Find a beta reader. Not someone who will tell you what you want to hear, but someone who has been there and done that, and will give you no holds barred HONEST critique. And then be a strong enough person to take that critique and use it to improve.

Hope this helps. It's not meant to be mean, but merely honest.
 
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Tara Rose said:
I've been reluctant to jump into this but I can't stay silent any longer. And this is NOT directed at any one person. It's a general post. The more you take rejection personally, the less you'll learn from it and grow as a writer. The worst mistake any of us can make is to believe our writing is already perfect and no one can help us improve it. Between my three pen names I have nearly 70 books published and you know what? I learn something new each and every single time I write another one, and each time my editor sends one along for revision. Every. Single. Time.

The publishing world HAS changed. Drastically. Agents and editors are no longer the only gatekeepers. People self-publish and self-edit, but guess what? That doesn't mean the writing is stellar. Unfortunately, MOST of the time it's pretty darn bad. Is every editor 100% correct? No. But learning the basics - learning the craft - is part of this game.

Agents and editors are in business to make money. If they don't believe they can sell it, they won't take a chance on it. Period. End of sentence. That's how the world of traditional publishing works and that's also why so many thumbed their noses at it and self-published.

My own writing is not perfect, nor will it ever be. I'm human. I accept that. But I also work very hard to constantly improve it. I take every single review to heart. Even the bad ones, and you'd better believe I get them. I take every single suggestion my editor gives me to heart. I may not change everything to suit her tastes, but we're talking fine points here, not glaring errors or sentence structure oddities. And as for reviews, even the mean-spirited ones often (usually) contain a kernel of truth.

So honestly… if you can't see the errors or faulty flow in your own writing yet, you're not ready to submit. And if you refuse to take critique about that, or refuse to put in the work to improve your writing, you're going to find this is a long, difficult road.

By all means keep writing, but buy, beg, or borrow some craft books. Take classes. Pick apart the books in your genre that you love to figure out how that author did it. How they pulled you into the story and kept you there. Try to emulate (not copy) that, then develop your own style. Find a beta reader. Not someone who will tell you what you want to hear, but someone who has been there and done that, and will give you no holds barred HONEST critique. And then be a strong enough person to take that critique and use it to improve.

Hope this helps. It's not meant to be mean, but merely honest.
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**Crowd erupts into cheers**
You're giving me a lot to carve into this ***damned wooden plaque, Tara! This is going to take for ever.
 
Lex Black said:
If that's the case, then the ones doing this are just playing games instead of doing anything helpful to those aspiring.

I have an increasing hatred of this industry, and old pain aside, I'm increasingly glad I stopped fighting with it.
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Sorry, man. You had a really hard go, of it. But rest now.:)
 
Taking Michael Levin's lead on rejection letters; here's what you do (and definitely NOT do!!)



I said it once and I'll say it again - I have adopted this guy as my virtual literary tutor. I learn so much from his vids.
 
Agents and editors don't have time to teach everyone how to write. They're not playing games. They're doing their jobs, and expecting aspiring writers to do theirs in turn.

Once upon a time, there were plenty of agents and editors who offered critique and suggestions on submissions. I've received them myself, back in the day. They stopped doing it when they had nasty hate mail for it from too many people, and I can't honestly blame them.

You can't even imagine the times I've had people ask me for help, but when I was honest, they turned nasty. They didn't really want true help. They wanted someone to tell them they were already perfect. It's why I never do it now. Too much drama for my taste, and no one actually wants the truth. They don't want to put in the work.
 
Emurelda said:
Taking Michael Levin's lead on rejection letters; here's what you do (and definitely NOT do!!)



I said it once and I'll say it again - I have adopted this guy as my virtual literary tutor. I learn so much from his vids.
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This is EXCELLENT! He said it all within the first few minutes. It's SUBJECTIVE. It doesn't mean they rejected YOU. It only means that work wasn't right for them at that time. Yes, sometimes it's the writing, but sometimes it's simply that they didn't believe they could sell it at that time.
 
I'm on a roll today. LOL! One more post and then I'll shut up. The first novel I completed and sent out was a hot mess. It was full of newbie mistakes. But I didn't yet know I'd made them, so I sent that puppy out to every agent I could find. By the time I was done and had instead joined RWA (Romance Writers of America) and bought some craft books, I garnered something in the neighborhood of 280 rejections. Not kidding. When I learned a few (hundred) things, and took advantage of the fabulous resources from a professional writing organization that caters to my chosen genre (that's another thing you can and should do! Join one if they offer them in your genre because the educational and networking ops in those orgs alone is worth the membership fee!), it was years later. I tried again. This time I got some requests for fulls and partials, but I still wasn't ready. Fast forward eleven years… YES … eleven years … and that original manuscript became His Majesty's Secret. So don't give up, but be SMART about it. Learn this craft first, and keep learning. :)
 
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Emurelda

Trademarks, copyright, patents. Oh my!

  • Emurelda
  • Replies: 1
Carol Rose

Passive versus active voice chuckle I just saw posted on Facebook

  • Carol Rose
  • Replies: 3
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