It's not whether but how one is rejected...

[Meerkat]

Before college, I wrote a story about a family being judged by the town in which they lived. I wrote it from a first person plural perspective--that is, what the "town" is thinking. I assumed anyone reading it would understand that the town had its collective heads up their @#$, but when I sent it out, I got a somewhat nasty rejection that went something like, "If people can't be redeemed [which was the town's opinion], then why are we bothering?" I was amazed that the editor didn't "get" it. I don't know if s/he was just dumb, or if I was too subtle.

 

[Nicole Wilson]

I've been reluctant to jump into this but I can't stay silent any longer. And this is NOT directed at any one person. It's a general post. The more you take rejection personally, the less you'll learn from it and grow as a writer. The worst mistake any of us can make is to believe our writing is already perfect and no one can help us improve it. Between my three pen names I have nearly 70 books published and you know what? I learn something new each and every single time I write another one, and each time my editor sends one along for revision. Every. Single. Time.

The publishing world HAS changed. Drastically. Agents and editors are no longer the only gatekeepers. People self-publish and self-edit, but guess what? That doesn't mean the writing is stellar. Unfortunately, MOST of the time it's pretty darn bad. Is every editor 100% correct? No. But learning the basics - learning the craft - is part of this game.

Agents and editors are in business to make money. If they don't believe they can sell it, they won't take a chance on it. Period. End of sentence. That's how the world of traditional publishing works and that's also why so many thumbed their noses at it and self-published.

My own writing is not perfect, nor will it ever be. I'm human. I accept that. But I also work very hard to constantly improve it. I take every single review to heart. Even the bad ones, and you'd better believe I get them. I take every single suggestion my editor gives me to heart. I may not change everything to suit her tastes, but we're talking fine points here, not glaring errors or sentence structure oddities. And as for reviews, even the mean-spirited ones often (usually) contain a kernel of truth.

So honestly… if you can't see the errors or faulty flow in your own writing yet, you're not ready to submit. And if you refuse to take critique about that, or refuse to put in the work to improve your writing, you're going to find this is a long, difficult road.

By all means keep writing, but buy, beg, or borrow some craft books. Take classes. Pick apart the books in your genre that you love to figure out how that author did it. How they pulled you into the story and kept you there. Try to emulate (not copy) that, then develop your own style. Find a beta reader. Not someone who will tell you what you want to hear, but someone who has been there and done that, and will give you no holds barred HONEST critique. And then be a strong enough person to take that critique and use it to improve.

Hope this helps. It's not meant to bemean, but merely honest.

Yes! There are any number of reasons why your manuscript gets rejected, and it doesn't even necessarily have to do with your book. An agent sees something like 100 queries A DAY, and if your query isn't strong enough, your MS isn't going to be read. If it does make it past the slush pile, then your first 50 pages and synopsis need to be tip top. There are other factors that just don't relate to your book specifically. Maybe they just bought a book similar to yours. Maybe they are looking for something very specific. Maybe they're having a bad day and the delete button is just easier for those that don't instantly catch their eye. I do believe that most agents are really trying to help, but you have to remember that publishing is a BUSINESS as well. If they can't sell it, they won't buy it.

 

[Marc Joan]

Lots of good comments, but I think the thread has meandered somewhat. Just to clarify, the site I referenced lists not agents, but journals. Of course, many comments regarding how you take rejection, etc, apply equally to rejection from journals as to rejection by agents. But my point was not to do with how the author receives rejection, but with the concept of 'tiered rejection'. I was suggesting that if journal editors have the time to tier their rejections in a way that, in effect, says 'close, but not quite there' -- which is of no help whatsoever to the author -- then surely they have the time to add a couple of helpful words, such as 'long-winded and predictable' -- which would be helpful to the author.

Not all magazines are equal of course -- Black Denim, for instance, does provide a couple of helpful words per rejection. And yes, one of mine received the 'long winded and predictable' comment [though not from Black Denim], for which I was grateful, because, on reflection, it was accurate, and enabled me to improve the story.

 

[Monique GOLAY]

then surely they have the time to add a couple of helpful words

I agree with you that some constructive criticism from professionals (but who are the real professionals?) would be useful. What I've gathered is that editors and agents used to do that but got so many insults in turn from disappointed aspiring authors that they stopped doing it. It's a pity.

 

[Karen Gray]

I probably got the nastiest rejection EVER.

First, the agent sounded quite nice:

_________Quote
Dear Monique,
If you have already been rejected by agents regarding this manuscript then the best thing to do would be to begin writing something new. No amount of editing will change the basic concept and flaws in your narrative. I feel very concerned that you did not get the best deal with your previous editor and I too feel that his commission is very high regarding the small amount of work he actually did for you. If you do write something new then please do contact me as you will get a proper edit that will help you to become a better writer. Very best wishes. Shelley Instone.
Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
___________End quote
Note: she could have been kind enough to tell me WHAT flaws. I re-submitted several months later and got this VERY NASTY answer:

_____________Quote
Dear Monique, Thank you for contacting me again. I've now looked at your files and I don't feel that you are ready for the editing process. Your writing skills are extremely poor and there isn't room for improvement. Best Wishes, Shelley
Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
______End quote

Why do I keep on writing? I think the person is contradicting herself. If my skills are, as she so kindly said, "extremely poor", then there should be room for improvement, shouldn't there? Following her logic, if somebody's writing skills are excellent, then there would be a great deal of room for improvement. I need this to be explained to me.
Anyway, thank you, Shelley Instone, especially if you're a very famous writer yourself. You'll probably make the next "Hobbit."

Friggin' ouch! Sooo unnecessary that! Well done you for carrying on regardless... What doesn't kill us makes us bitter and twisted and easier to deal with needlessly harsh words like that. In all seriousness, well done for not letting this impact deep enough to stop you.

 

[Monique GOLAY]

Friggin' ouch! Sooo unnecessary that! Well done you for carrying on regardless... What doesn't kill us makes us bitter and twisted and easier to deal with needlessly harsh words like that. In all seriousness, well done for not letting this impact deep enough to stop you.

It actually makes me laugh because of the inconsistency of the remark. If, as the agent said, my "writing skills are extremely poor", then there is room for improvement. The agent said there is "no room for improvement," which is inconsistent.

 

[Karen Gray]

It actually makes me laugh because of the inconsistency of the remark. If, as the agent said, my "writing skills are extremely poor", then there is room for improvement. The agent said there is "no room for improvement," which is inconsistent.

Yeah it is pretty backward :/

 

[Katie-Ellen]

@Carol Rose, and there's the unmistakeable ring of truth ....'when I was honest, they turned nasty. They didn't really want true help. They wanted someone to tell them they were already perfect.'

Are good or great writers born or made? It's surely got to be born and made. Talent plus skill/craft then luck. Agents have bills to pay; they know at a glance whether they like what you're selling enough to have it in their lives for the foreseeable. I have a friend signed up with a bright up and coming young agent. She likes and highly esteems the agent; but two years on, the agent hasn't been able to place it with a publisher as yet. The agent may yet do it, but meanwhile, what else does my friend do but either leave it in the lap of the gods, or work on a new project.

 

[Carol Rose]

@Carol Rose, and there's the unmistakeable ring of truth ....'when I was honest, they turned nasty. They didn't really want true help. They wanted someone to tell them they were already perfect.'

Are good or great writers born or made? It's surely got to be born and made. Talent plus skill/craft then luck. Agents have bills to pay; they know at a glance whether they like what you're selling enough to have it in their lives for the foreseeable.

I completely agree.

 

[Monique GOLAY]

I completely agree.

Luck, yes luck plays a role in literature, science, and tennis. There are many excellent tennis players who may find themselves on a wet spot and get injured, and get injury after injury. Also a question of luck.

 

[Carol Rose]

Luck, yes luck plays a role in literature, science, and tennis. There are many excellent tennis players who may find themselves on a wet spot and get injured, and get injury after injury. Also a question of luck.

Having grown up watching ice skating and gymnastics competitions, I agree. So many times I watched an Olympic hopeful or a someone favored to win another competition have an injury, or simply have an off day, and all their dreams are dashed. At least until they can recover from the injury or until the next competition. It has to be heart breaking to have that happen. Sometimes in submitting manuscripts to agents or editors, it's simply a matter of getting the right one in front of the right person at the right time. No way to predict it, and so much of it depends on that elusive entity we call "luck."

 

[Katie-Ellen]

If I sense luck will be against me with a particular agent, but I like the look of the agent enough, I'll likely still try. I trust my instincts. I sense when it's going to be a no, but hope's as bouncy as stubbornness. There's little to lose in giving luck a shove; no kicking, and no King Canute-ing; and a tide just might caught on a turn.

 

[Carol Rose]

If I sense luck will be against me with a particular agent, but I like the look of the agent enough, I'll likely still try. I trust my instincts. I sense when it's going to be a no, but hope's as bouncy as stubbornness. There's little to lose in giving luck a shove; no kicking, and no King Canute-ing; and a tide just might caught on a turn.

Absolutely! I would try, too. It's not possible to predict when you're sending exactly what that person needs at the right time.

 

[Emurelda]

It actually makes me laugh because of the inconsistency of the remark. If, as the agent said, my "writing skills are extremely poor", then there is room for improvement. The agent said there is "no room for improvement," which is inconsistent.

I think you have to convince her that you want to improve your writing. If you can be bothered to do that.

From her point of view, and I am only looking at for purposes of trying to find a benefit from her comment if I am in your shoes (which may be likely as I follow in your submission footsteps): so to glean a benefit from her comment I would say that this agent doesn't believe you want to improve, even if it isn't true, it's something she hasn't been convinced of.

If you distance yourself for a moment and think about it she gave you some initial positive feedback and after a period of time of x months you resubmitted a novel. She read it and decided the progress wasn't enough and her investment in you (time) would be too expensive . Sorry for that point of view. I just want to find a perspective that makes sense. And since you still find it bizarre maybe this perspective will be helpful however painful it might sound.

Hopefully you can reflect upon what you did over those x months e.g

- Did you do a writing course?...there is an online course I would recommend which i got via Groupon
- Did you get an editor and beta readers to give you constructive feedback?
- Did you read recommended writer's books and applied their advice?
- Did you read published books in your genre and reflect on the author's skill in showing a story?
And whatever you did in the period. Jot it all down and then reflect on how you will improve for the next round of submissions.

If you've done everything you could and still feel the agent's response was uncalled for then the above won't be helpful to you.

 

[Monique GOLAY]

there is an online course I would recommend which i got via Groupon

Hello!
Do you have the exact e-address for the online course? I write about 3-4 hours a day x 7 days per Week. I'm the slow sort of writer. I'm for ever revising and correcting my work. I've translated it into French, which is my way of being more self-critical. I've also spent a good deal of money in having my work critiqued by a professional author.
Do you honestly think it professional on the part of an agent to tell an aspiring author "Your writing skills are extremely poor" and "there is no room for improvement"? I don't know what that agent was trying to achieve, except looking for a row. I think she had a bad day when she said that. By the way, I've read that anybody can be an agent and that that doesn't even take a university degree, so . . .

 

[Emurelda]

Hello!
Do you have the exact e-address for the online course?

Hi @Monique GOLAY

The course is here: http://www.writestorybooksforchildren.com/

And here was the original 96% off deal: Write Story Books for Children

Keep an eye out for it as and when it arrives again. They always have an offer every once in a while. Unfortunately they don't have it available yet.

I can vouch for the course itself as a new beginner to writing for children's. It really opened my eyes to the fundamental basics. And I have it on my iPad now. Every time they update I get it free. I have access to resources that are useful too.

 

[Emurelda]

I'm the slow sort of writer. I'm for ever revising and correcting my work. I've translated it into French, which is my way of being more self-critical. I've also spent a good deal of money in having my work critiqued by a professional author.
Do you honestly think it professional on the part of an agent to tell an aspiring author "Your writing skills are extremely poor" and "there is no room for improvement"? I don't know what that agent was trying to achieve, except looking for a row. I think she had a bad day when she said that. By the way, I've read that anybody can be an agent and that that doesn't even take a university degree, so . . .

Ok, thanks for the open invitation for my opinion

I hope you don't mind if I look at this for purposes of trying to shed some positive light on this upsetting response from an agent and not to criticise you in any way at all, that wouldn't be in the spirit of this forum.

Right let's put our scientific hats on - that should be easy - and dissect this baby . [I'm a bit rusty btw but bear with me].

Here is the first letter from the agent - I have underlined the most important bit of advice I would have taken from it:

Dear Monique,
If you have already been rejected by agents regarding this manuscript then the best thing to do would be to begin writing something new. No amount of editing will change the basic concept and flaws in your narrative. I feel very concerned that you did not get the best deal with your previous editor and I too feel that his commission is very high regarding the small amount of work he actually did for you. If you do write something new then please do contact me as you will get a proper edit that will help you to become a better writer. Very best wishes. Shelley Instone.

So there are three things I would have taken from this letter.

1. Write something new
2. Story concept
3. Story narrative

As a new writer I would have grabbed all the information i could to find out what is a #2 & 3. Opening up 'Writers' & Artists' Guide to How to Write section 2 titled Prose Style - would be a start for me.

If I didn't want to change number one I would have gone back to the story and changed the fundamentals of it e.g different story arc/character objectives etc with my new found knowledge from the assumed research done.

With an updated MS, you then re-submitted to the same agent. Now I don't know if the new submission is a new concept as you don't say but her response being this:

Dear Monique, Thank you for contacting me again. I've now looked at your files and I don't feel that you are ready for the editing process. Your writing skills are extremely poor and there isn't room for improvement.

The question is did you resubmit the same MS concept or was it something completely new? If it was the former then you didn't take on her original advice but if it was the latter then you have to ask yourself if you did all you could to improve your writing?

On another issue I can't help but feel you are spreading yourself too thinly with the translation of your work into another language. I speak two languages and they require two sets of independent skills for writing stories. I assume that is the same for any language. If both are your native languages I think that is marvelous!

But maybe hone your writing skills in one language first? Just a thought.

The other thing I wonder is the comment about hiring an editor too soon. When I first started writing I assumed I just needed to put down words onto page and then they would be magicked together by a professional editor who would make it sound like it does in my head. I'm making presumptions here, sorry, but there is such a thing as getting an editor too early. Isn't there?

Other questions to consider is if you had beta readers to read through for just general comments on the story, characters and flow?

The hardest thing to do now is to turn this bitter experience into something positive.

Good luck!

 

[Emurelda]

Writing course is back on discount again ...

Groupon link

 

[Monique GOLAY]

I can vouch for the course itself as a new beginner to writing for children's. It really opened my eyes to the fundamental basics. And I have it on my iPad now. Every time they update I get it free. I have access to resources that are useful too.

Hi Emurelda,
Thanks for the tip. However, I fear that behind the writing course a whole lot of people are monetizing the slushpile. My intuition is that you have to observe how your favourite books are made and forge your imagination to create a new genre, like a pioneer, also if that means taking big risks.

 

[Emurelda]

Hi Emurelda,
Thanks for the tip. However, I fear that behind the writing course a whole lot of people are monetizing the slushpile. My intuition is that you have to observe how your favourite books are made and forge your imagination to create a new genre, like a pioneer, also if that means taking big risks.

I am not sure then how we can plan to pioneer anything if we don't improve on the basics of writing at least. This course is cheaper than a writer's guide book... I took it as an opportunity to learn.

Never mind each to their own.

 

[Bernard Stacey]

My intuition is that you have to observe how your favourite books are made and forge your imagination to create a new genre

If you're self-publishing I guess that's fine but if you're looking for a traditional agent-publisher route then I would leave creating 'new genres' to the established authors on whom the industry is more likely to take a punt. Rightly or wrongly (probably rightly as it is their time/money they're risking) the words "and I've created a whole new genre" in a query letter will give an agent no need to look for further reasons to reject the manuscript.