Ageism in Publishing

[Paul Whybrow]

I've previously commented on how a writer's appearance could affect how successful they are—that is, are they photogenic enough to be a sales asset?

https://colony.litopia.com/index.php?threads/ how-photogenic-are-you.2657/

Today, I came across this worrying story about age discrimination.

It looks like the writing course organisers rattled the wrong tiger's cage, for the plaintiff, a 68-year-old self-published writer was formerly a lawyer. It's hard to argue with the figures he quotes, that out of 100 applicants over the age of 50 who applied for the course over the last five years, all were rejected!

I'm 63 and surprised and delighted to be so, for I've had several close brushes with death and I come from a long line of menfolk who died in their 40s and 50s. Thankfully, I'm in great health, and confident of my abilities as a writer (if not my skills as a salesman ), but all the same, doubts have trickled into my ego when I've wondered if being a debut author is possible at my age. When I see literary agencies staffed by pretty young things called Letitia, Honora, Jessica and Petronella, who are all in their 20s and 30s, I can't imagine them looking favourably on someone old enough to be their grandfather.

Then, I look at their roster of authors, and there are very few who are older than 50. I think that it's illegal, under U.K. law, to ask a writer's age when querying, though many agencies circumvent this by asking for details of your writing career. Some literary agencies have client pages that resemble the glossy headshots of modelling agencies.

There's nothing wrong with a beautiful woman or a handsome man making a go of it as an author, provided their talent supports their looks. It can be that being attractive can be detrimental to getting taken seriously in an intellectual career. Readers might even be put-off if the author's mugshot shows someone who's stunning. It could be that my grizzled biker looks and age will help to sell my Cornish Detective novels.

The patron saint of older writers should be Mary Wesley, who published her first adult novel at the age of 71. Her work was very racy and has been successfully adapted into television series. She had ten bestsellers, shifting 3,000,000 books, before dying at 90.

I remind myself of her moxie when I'm writing.

Have any of you experienced ageism in publishing?

Do you have any doubts about being too old—or too young—to be taken seriously?

 

[Katie-Ellen]

Yes, but I think if someone gets your book - they get it. I might not, 54, target one of those bubbly bright young things on twitter. And I'm sure they're hungry and sharp as anything. But I might look for an agent with more life experience. An agent, female or male with a shrewd but warmly lived in face would be a tougher proposition, but might be a better fit.

 

[James Marinero]

As @Katie-Ellen Hazeldine said. I'm wondering if, given the present growth in the YA market, whether it's because the publishers want writers who can really relate to YA. I'm too far distanced from it to be able to get under the skin of a 20 year old character. I'll stick to my knitting and then expire.

 

[Katie-Ellen]

Older writers are writing YA for sure. There's one on the 2017 Not The Booker Long list. Arachne Press. Ghillian Potts, 'Brat.' She is 83.

Alan Garner wrote books for children and adults. Wonder whether he'd be tagged YA today but Red Shift....non explicit rape and violent death. No YA these days goes there. The violent death...sure, but not the other. We've all BEEN 20 of course, and 14 and um, goo- goo gaaa-gaaa except of course, we pen-players arrived saying things like, oh, look, I appear to have manifested on the mortal plane. Feed me, please, and pass me a classic.

But the agent needs to connect with the writing, and I guess that comes down to personal fit and resonance which might imply some mirroring.

 

[Patricia D]

I see age as possibly a factor for some people, but there's nothing I can do about being old and getting older every day. (The alternative does not appeal.) My personal goal is to be the Grandma Moses of mystery writers.

 

[Katie-Ellen]

As @Katie-Ellen Hazeldine said. I'm wondering if, given the present growth in the YA market, whether it's because the publishers want writers who can really relate to YA. I'm too far distanced from it to be able to get under the skin of a 20 year old character. I'll stick to my knitting and then expire.

Noooooooooooooooooo the world and the writing world as well, needs its silver foxes.

 

[James Marinero]

Noooooooooooooooooo the world and the writing world as well, needs its silver foxes.

But how can I, at 60+, keep up with the street lingo, the idioms, the dress codes and all the other things that fire up a YA? I'm of the Facebook generation and try to keep abreast of tech, but I can't engage withe snapchat, facetime and online gaming. No time, no brainspace. Sure I could write well about YAs cut off in rural Wales after a war. Or maybe YAs set in the time of my own youth.

 

[James Marinero]

I see age as possibly a factor for some people, but there's nothing I can do about being old and getting older every day. (The alternative does not appeal.) My personal goal is to be the Grandma Moses of mystery writers.

Maybe I should try to be the Grandad Methuselah? No way. The thought of living for 1000 years is absolutely horrifying.

 

[Carol Rose]

I'll be 60 in October. I was published for the first time 6 years ago. I'm inches from 100 books during that time. Does anyone give a shit how old I am? No. I've written characters as young as 24. How do you relate to a 24 year old when you're almost 60? The same way you relate to any other human being on the planet. You talk to them. You watch them. You listen to them speak. You keep up on current events, current culture, current slang, etc. We're writers. It's what we do. Age has nothing to do with it unless you place that limit on yourself.

 

[AgentPete]

With writing, you get better as you get older. Not always true of other things, but definitely true here.

Experience of life, and direct experience of writing practice, can only make you better.

I agree the Letitia’s of the publishing world can be a nuisance, but one always tries to route round them. And in any case, they’re never in a job for very long.

 

[Katie-Ellen]

But how can I, at 60+, keep up with the street lingo, the idioms, the dress codes and all the other things that fire up a YA? I'm of the Facebook generation and try to keep abreast of tech, but I can't engage withe snapchat, facetime and online gaming. No time, no brainspace. Sure I could write well about YAs cut off in rural Wales after a war. Or maybe YAs set in the time of my own youth.

Trends and classics. There will always be a market for a new future classic.

 

[Paul Whybrow]

I see age as possibly a factor for some people, but there's nothing I can do about being old and getting older every day. (The alternative does not appeal.) My personal goal is to be the Grandma Moses of mystery writers.

"Life is full of misery, loneliness, and suffering—and it's all over much too soon."

Woody Allen

 

[Paul Whybrow]

 

[Ancora Imparo]

It doesn't matter to me as a writer but I think it matters to lots of agents and publishers. I took voluntary redundancy from a national newspaper ten years ago, when I was 51 (mainly because I wanted my life back). A few years down the line I thought I'd apply to a publishing company in the city where I live. A friend who knew the industry warned me not to bother – over the previous few years they had quietly got rid of anyone over 40... Yes, it's illegal, but I'm sure they didn't shout about it and from what I can see, they got away with it. People in the industry know this is the case. Age shouldn't matter, but it does. It's part of the shallow nature of some of the people in the publishing business. But only some.

This is where independent publishing comes into its own, I think. Thankfully, when someone reads an independently published book they're more interested in whether it's a good story than the age of the writer.

 

[Masquereader]

This is one that troubles me. The problem is, however good your writing - as @AgentPete said yesterday in the pop-up session, in so many words - agents and publishers want to invest in someone with a future. And it takes so long to get a book out, even assuming you get accepted. Plus I write for children, and I help every year at a children's literature festival where I watch photogenic young things promoting their work and wonder, how would the children feel if instead it was someone who could be their Granny?

 

[Howard]

I can understand writers worrying about their age: we worry about every other damned thing, so why not that too?!

That being said, I have never read a good young author and I could not pick out even my favourite author from a line up (OK, he is dead, so its a bad example, but you take my point).

All I would say is that JK Rowling was no spring chicken when she (finally!) got her deal, though more cynical minds would note that she looks younger now than she did then

 

[James Marinero]

That being said, I have never read a good young author and I could not pick out even my favourite author from a line up (OK, he is dead, so its a bad example, but you take my point).

Was it old age wot done him in?

 

[James Marinero]

Plus I write for children, and I help every year at a children's literature festival where I watch photogenic young things promoting their work and wonder, how would the children feel if instead it was someone who could be their Granny?

Children have a special connection with their grandparents. Maybe you can turn that into a storytelling session at the festival. I'm not implying that you look like a granny, far from it!

 

[Howard]

Was it old age wot done him in?

Sadly, no, for we would have gotten so many more novels from him

(Iain Banks, FYI: Died of cancer in 2013)

 

[James Marinero]

Yes @Howard , have read his work under both names.

 

[Katie-Ellen]

This is one that troubles me. The problem is, however good your writing - as @AgentPete said yesterday in the pop-up session, in so many words - agents and publishers want to invest in someone with a future. And it takes so long to get a book out, even assuming you get accepted. Plus I write for children, and I help every year at a children's literature festival where I watch photogenic young things promoting their work and wonder, how would the children feel if instead it was someone who could be their Granny?

Michael Morpurgo ain't remotely photogenic, and goes round schools.

 

[Masquereader]

Yes but he didn't look like that when they originally signed him up ... I assume. He was certainly a lot younger

 

[Katie-Ellen]

Never was photogenic, a reason for writers to be cheerful, though you ARE photogenic.

 

[Masquereader]

Looks are secondary - it's more about whether they think you're going to fulfil your contract before you fall off your perch

 

[Katie-Ellen]

Is it? Well, that's very bad news. I'll just focus on the writing. The rest is outside the writer's control until or unless they decide to self- publish. And even then...

 

[Masquereader]

There are many reasons to fall off a perch, not all of them unpleasant ...

 

[Robinne Weiss]

Ageism or not, I agree with @AgentPete on the age thing. I was always considered a good writer for my age, but looking back, I couldn't write worth a damn until after age 40. I simply didn't have a long enough perspective on the human condition. Far from being too distanced from teens, I think I understand teens (including myself as a teen) better now than I did at 18. What is it they say--you never know what you've got until it's gone? Yeah. That. And if the 20-something women who dominate the ranks of literary agents don't understand that, it's not surprising. They're still too young to understand.

Never forget Garrison Keillor. One of the most unattractive people I've ever seen, but a magnificent storyteller who can hold an audience spellbound for an hour, manipulating their emotions, playing them like a musical instrument, conducting them like an orchestra.

Youth and beauty be damned--the story's the thing.

 

[Geoff]

Why not simply become 'mysterious' and avoid answering all questions, including one's date of birth.

 

[MaryA]

For women, ageism and sexism have always gone hand-in-hand in most industries and workplaces. I'd hoped it would change as women became more assertive and aware of how sexism operates, but ...no, not so much.

On the other hand, I think keeping up-to-date and in touch matters as we get older. As @Robinne said, most of us do get better as writers with experience and maturity. What I find is that while I don't need to adopt every new term or slang expression out there, it is important to pay attention to cultural debates and read fiction by younger writers, writers from outside the West, writers breaking genre rules (I'm busy with the Not the Booker Prize shortlist for 2017). Listening to new music is harder for me because my tastes were fixed by my early 30s! But I think there's a need to stay fresh and relevant, keep learning and getting better.

 

[James Marinero]

Never was photogenic,

Dangerous ground, sorry, but someone has to say that your self-perception is mis-perception. IMHO of course