To the fantasy readers and writers, recommendations needed

[KateESal]

It's hard to beat Neil Gaiman in the fantasy arena IMO, so if you haven't hoovered through his entire collection yet, that's definitely worth doing.

 

[Rich.]

The Prince of Nothing trilogy by Scott Bakker is incredible

Added to my (increasingly long and unmanageable) list.

I tried Sanderson's Mistborn series recently. Powered through the first trilogy, but lost interest half way through the second book of the new series.

Yeah, I read The Way of Kings, the first volume of The Stormlight Archive, a little while ago. It was entertaining and I enjoyed the read, but I didn't find myself inspired to continue the series. Maybe one day I'll come back to it.

--

Gormangast - mervyn peak

You see? Now there's another fantasy classic I've never read. Hmm. I'm holding on to Victoria Schwab's sentiments as posted by @Sea-shore a little earlier in this thread (Schwab basically says that you shouldn't beat yourself up for not having read a particular fantasy classic; there are many ways into the genre).

--

I don't read a lot of fantasy fiction, but one author who's impressed me is John Crowley.

All good. More for the list.

--

It's hard to beat Neil Gaiman in the fantasy arena IMO, so if you haven't hoovered through his entire collection yet, that's definitely worth doing.

I've only read American Gods and Neverwhere. Both of which I enjoyed immensely. I'm not a comic reader, but I keep meaning to lay my hands on the Sandman series – and his latest on Norse mythology. Have you read it (the Norse one)?

--

I find it curious how this thread doesn't want to die – just when I think it's going to sink down the board, someone comes to resuscitate it. Here's to other worlds!

 

[KG Christopher]

No. I believe 100% . Just because you haven't read a psrticular book, do not believe you have missede out. Literature - like music - is a personal journey. I would love to think there is nothing sweater than discovering a new story in some future twighlight year.

 

[Rich.]

Hear hear!

 

[NickP]

Just finished, "The Bear And The Nightingale" by Katherine Arden and immediately ordered the next.

Recent reads: "The Girl With Many Gifts" & "The Boy On The Bridge", definitely unputdownable for me.

 

[NickP]

It's hard to beat Neil Gaiman in the fantasy arena IMO, so if you haven't hoovered through his entire collection yet, that's definitely worth doing.

Read all his, including his graphic novels. The Sandman is superb.

If we are trolling over the whole history of fantasy, my god, I've read loads, and loads of it was junk.

Personally, Feist's Magician left me cold (sorry, Carly) - read like a video game where the hero had to go through every level and defeat or outwit every dragon, troll, dwarf to get his mcguffins.

Loved the 1st chronicles of Thomas Covenant but by the end of the 2nd I was all leper-ed out.

Dune, yes, all the sequels, hell no.

Never got past the first book of "Wheel of Time".

Joe Abercrombie, yes! every word he's published and awaiting the new stuff with baited breath.

Stephen King (okay, more horror than Fantasy, I suppose) read everything avidly until Insomnia, Desperation and Rose Madder none of which I could finish and from then on not a word.

Tolkien - hobbit and LOTR both fab. Haven't read all the other oddities.

Read Gene Wolf's New Sun trilogy but now can't remember a word.

Loved Gormenghast & Titus Groan.

The Last Unicorn, brilliant.

Narnia as a kid great books

The Magician, The Magician King, The Magician's Land - magnificent and funny trilogy by Lev Grossman and great antidote to Narnia

Harry Potter - no. Twilight, no. Pratchett - only the one with Gaiman.

All of the Song of Ice & Fire published so far - but the gap is in danger of making me lose interest.

I've read Shardik but not Watership Down.

Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell - what a triumph that is!





Perdido Street Station, that was breathtaking once I crawled through that crowded prose.

 

[KateESal]

Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell - what a triumph that is!

Ah, yes, that was a good'un.

Try Jasper Fforde. The Thursday Next series (starts with The Eyre Affaire) is highly entertaining and one for those who relish Douglas Adams and Terry Pratchett-type silliness.

 

[Amber]

I forgot about Beth Bernobich ... also Jonathan Strange....

 

[cgovender]

I absolutely vouch for Rothfuss, he is brilliant. Admittedly I haven't been able to psyche myself up to reading The Wise Man's Fear because then I'll have to kick my heels waiting for #3, and goodness knows how long that will take.

Maria V Snyder is also solid, I have a few of hers. Personally, I struggled with Scott Lynch and the Locke Lamora series. It sounded like the perfect read for me but I could never connect with it.

I haven't read Shades of Magic but it sounds right up my street! Have you tried Anthony Ryan? The Raven's Shadow series is excellent. Blood Song is probably the best book I've read in years.

 

[Paul Whybrow]

This thread is proving really useful to me as a reader, for though I don't read a lot of fantasy or science-fiction—about twenty titles a year—I need guidance as to what is worth my attention. After admitting being bewildered about how to access Terry Pratchett's Discworld, in an old thread, I'm currently enjoying his The Wee Free Men.

Reading a review of Blood Song, which @cgovender recommended, I wondered if one of the appeals of fantasy writing is shared with Westerns—that the characters exist in a largely lawless world, faced with confrontations against an overwhelming enemy, where a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do. I ask, because in writing contemporary crime novels, my protagonist detective is usually restricted by legal procedure, but in the climax of my WIP he's going to enter into an elemental battle for his life, involving blades and clubs, that leaves him at death's door and suspended from duty for the violence he used to defend himself.

 

[cgovender]

This thread is proving really useful to me as a reader, for though I don't read a lot of fantasy or science-fiction—about twenty titles a year—I need guidance as to what is worth my attention. After admitting being bewildered about how to access Terry Pratchett's Discworld, in an old thread, I'm currently enjoying his The Wee Free Men.

Reading a review of Blood Song, which @cgovender recommended, I wondered if one of the appeals of fantasy writing is shared with Westerns—that the characters exist in a largely lawless world, faced with confrontations against an overwhelming enemy, where a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do. I ask, because in writing contemporary crime novels, my protagonist detective is usually restricted by legal procedure, but in the climax of my WIP he's going to enter into an elemental battle for his life, involving blades and clubs, that leaves him at death's door and suspended from duty for the violence he used to defend himself.

I think I'd definitely agree with your theory. There is a degree of lawlessness in all fantasy worlds and therein lies the fascination, perhaps because it is so contrary to current society. One of the reasons I love writing and reading fantasy literature is that the world is determined wholly by the creator. There are no rules that I - or the characters - have to abide by.

I must admit to being a massive Terry Pratchett fan. You might find The Hogfather a good access point - it encompasses several different groups of characters and as it's based on the story of Santa Clause it's quite easy to follow. I'd also suggest starting with the City Watch series - the first is "Guards! Guards!". It's my favourite of his series, with some of the best Discworld characters.

 

[Rich.]

I've been absent from this thread for a while. Life and all that.

If we are trolling over the whole history of fantasy, my god, I've read loads, and loads of it was junk.

Isn't it! That's really why I started this thread. I thought there must be some discerning types around. Great list, by the way. I think you're the first to mention A Song of Ice and Fire. The first couple really sucked me in, but I must admit that by book five I had the distinct impression George AaarrAaaar Martin had sacrificed all his editors to the gods of Westeros.

--

Try Jasper Fforde.

Will do!

--

also Jonathan Strange

Yes! I agree with those above. This book is marvellous.

--

I struggled with Scott Lynch and the Locke Lamora series. It sounded like the perfect read for me but I could never connect with it.

Exactly the same for me.

Have you tried Anthony Ryan?

I haven't, but now I will.

--

Reading a review of Blood Song, which @cgovender recommended, I wondered if one of the appeals of fantasy writing is shared with Westerns—that the characters exist in a largely lawless world, faced with confrontations against an overwhelming enemy, where a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do.

I think, traditionally, there's an element of that. There's certainly a lot of good vs evil in traditional fantasy – and angsty young men from poor backgrounds who are in fact the chosen one as protagonists. But the good books tend to veer away from that kind of thing (or at least subvert it). But yes, I guess there are elements of individual grit-in-the-face-of-overwhelming-odds that westerns and fantasy share.

 

[cgovender]

I've been absent from this thread for a while. Life and all that.


Isn't it! That's really why I started this thread. I thought there must be some discerning types around. Great list, by the way. I think you're the first to mention A Song of Ice and Fire. The first couple really sucked me in, but I must admit that by book five I had the distinct impression George AaarrAaaar Martin had sacrificed all his editors to the gods of Westeros.

Absolutely agree with your take on Grrrrrr Martin. He had me all the way to book four, and then he seemed to lost the plot, both literally and metaphorically. His editors should be shot. Or perhaps they already have been.

 

[Katie-Ellen]

David Almond and 'Skellig' is an outlier here. MG/YA/A. It is fantasy, but different in approach. Realism- based fantasy. 'Unusual little dream-novel.' Found in a shed, a grumpy, smelly, arthritic angel/owl-man (?) with a taste for Chinese takeaways and an aversion to miracles.
But do as you would be done by and...
A miracle is needed.

Here the author talks about the writing process.

 

[KateESal]

David Almond and 'Skellig' is an outlier here. MG/YA/A. It is fantasy, but different in approach. Realism- based fantasy. 'Unusual little dream-novel.' Found in a shed, a grumpy, smelly, arthritic angel/owl-man (?) with a taste for Chinese takeaways and an aversion to miracles.
But do as you would be done by and...
A miracle is needed.

Yes, a gem of a book. Is it strictly fantasy? Or does it qualify as magical realism? <muses> Either way, it's an engaging read and I enjoyed it very much.

 

[Rich.]

Yes, a gem of a book. Is it strictly fantasy?

Fantasy is certainly a broad canvass when we start to include anything that isn't strictly realistic. And this thread is filling up nicely with all manner of great recommendations.

But I hope you'll allow me to narrow the discussion for a moment. I started off by asking if anyone knew anything like VE Schwab's Shades of Magic series (and yes, the question was market research). I have another question, along similar lines. In terms of epic fantasy – the broad canvas stories that can be used as doorstops and sit squarely in the fantasy section of the bookshop – what have you read that subverts the tropes and takes the genre somewhere new? Game of Thrones made fantasy gritty. Joe Abercrombie did away with good vs evil. Ursula Le Guin (writing in the sixties) had black protagonists in a bronze-age world. Lynn Flewlling, in her Nightrunner series – an otherwise standard bit of fantasy – had a gay love story between her heroes. And the Saga comics have a breast-feeding mother kicking ass.

You get the idea. Tell me about epic fantasy that isn't centred around a poor white boy with a destiny.

 

[cgovender]

"poor white boy with a destiny" does tend to be the tagline, doesn't it?

First thing that comes to mind is the Circle of Magic series by Tamora Pierce. Technically its for the YA audience, but the four main protagonists in the series are from diverse backgrounds and one of them is gay (stereo-typically so, but I suppose it counts).

 

[Rich.]

...the four main protagonists in the series are from diverse backgrounds and one of them is gay (stereo-typically so, but I suppose it counts).

That's a tough one, isn't it? When does diversity itself become a stereotype? Hmm. I'm not sure I even know how to answer that.

 

[KateESal]

That's a tough one, isn't it? When does diversity itself become a stereotype? Hmm. I'm not sure I even know how to answer that.

I think @cgovender means she regards the gay character as a stereotype, no?

 

[Katie-Ellen]

Yes, a gem of a book. Is it strictly fantasy? Or does it qualify as magical realism? <muses> Either way, it's an engaging read and I enjoyed it very much.

Skellig has been marketed under both headings; fantasy and magical realism. Like Alan Garner's Elidor, and other titles. Yes, very true, a different animal from the other titles and series mentioned so far, and so I introduced it as an outlier. Sorry if not sufficiently germane to be helpful to the discussion. There is also (I didn't spot it, sorry if it's already been mentioned) Artemis Fowl by Eoin Colfer Classified as science fiction fantasy, YA, though when you look at these genre classifications, the overlaps can look like a minor marketing minefield.

Urban fantasy for adults in a contemporary London setting, there is also the Rivers of London series by Ben Aaronovitch.

 

[Rich.]

I think @cgovender means she regards the gay character as a stereotype, no?

Yes, I think you're right. I've misread your comment, @cgovender, haven't I? As @KateESal says, you were talking about the gay character being a stereotype, not the group, right?

--

Sorry if not sufficiently germane to be helpful to the discussion.

Don't be sorry! The discussion is free to go where the discussion wants! I asked a narrower question a few posts back because I really am doing market research, but this thread has become much bigger than that, and it's healthier for it.

 

[cgovender]

@Rich. Ah yes, I was referring to the gay characterisation in Pierce's series. I'm not sure we've reached that point in fantasy literature where diversity could be considered a stereotype. You're right in that there is little diversity in characters and their backgrounds. It's still very much a "poor white guy with a destiny" (that still makes me laugh!)

@Katie-Ellen Hazeldine I wouldn't have considered Artemis Fowl as science fiction. Admittedly, it's been at least a decade since I read it, so perhaps my memory needs refreshing! I'm sure it's still haunting my bookshelves somewhere... I do agree that Rivers of London is remarkably diverse. I've only read the first half (I'm struggling to immerse myself, it still feels like a chore to read it) but the author has been a concentrated effort on that part. I don't know whether that was his intent, or unconsciously done.

 

[Katie-Ellen]

Artemis Fowl, Science fiction, well exactly @cgovender Genre classifications are a minefield. The Lovely Bones falls under about 10 headings if you look up its genre classifications on Amazon. I know what you mean about Rivers of London. The MC is very likeable, I like the premise, but I felt it went OTT and diluted its promise. It went kitchen-sink, funny haha and I lost interest. I understand it's being made for screen though.

 

[cgovender]

I've never thought that much about genre classifications, to be completely honest. I'm not sure where my book would fit. Certainly Fantasy, but perhaps Urban Fantasy as well, with a twist of Mystery?

How would you guys classify your manuscripts?

 

[KateESal]

There is also (I didn't spot it, sorry if it's already been mentioned) Artemis Fowl by Eoin Colfer Classified as science fiction fantasy, YA, though when you look at these genre classifications, the overlaps can look like a minor marketing minefield.

Yes! Artemis Fowl definitely qualifies as a character-led fantasy series, in my view. Sci-fi? Really? Well, I suppose there is a certain amount of "technology" featured, but personally I think sci-fi is a bit of a stretch as a description. Still, as pointed out elsewhere, there is a lot of overlap, not to mention subjective assessments etc. in play.

How would you guys classify your manuscripts?

Middle grade magical adventure probably covers mine. Children's fantasy would also do it. Pure escapism for kids, maybe?

 

[Rich.]

How would you guys classify your manuscripts?

My one completed novel, which was rejected many times last year, was a hodgepodge of genres – historical, Gothic, fantasy, mystery and thriller. I did get a few calls for the full manuscript, which was encouraging, all of which led to rejections, which was less so.

But one of those rejections was telling. It said the genre did not seem well considered and it wasn't clear where the book would sit in the bookshop.

My take home from that was that if you're going to write genre fiction, you'd best know what genre you're writing (just my opinion of course – I'm not suggesting this is gospel, though I have a hunch that it is).

My current work-in-progress is high fantasy (subverted [I hope!] for the 21st century). When it's published(!), it'll sit in the fantasy section of the bookshop.

 

[Carol Rose]

Can't reiterate enough (and I've said it enough times already!) that you MUST, MUST, MUST know where your book fits in with those selling today. Yes, people write hybrid genres all the time, but a first-time author seeking publication would have to write one heck of a commercial, high-concept novel that blows everything else out of the water to make agents not worry over "Where does this fit in?" Don't give them a reason to reject you by not knowing your genre and the reader expectations of that genre. Write that book first. And then, once you have a following, you can try different things and your readers will probably come along with you.

 

[Rich.]

You see, @Carol Rose, now why didn't you tell me before I finished writing that first book? I mean, I know we didn't know each other back then, but really...

 

[Carol Rose]

You see, @Carol Rose, now why didn't you tell me before I finished writing that first book? I mean, I know we didn't know each other back then, but really...

I should have anticipated you'd need to know that and told you.

 

[Rich.]

Exactly.

This is a fantasy thread, after all. Non-linear time is no issue.