Stupid questions...

[Marc Joan]

...should I write that which I feel to be good; or that which has the best chance of being published? (Still struggling with the basics here...!) I'm being rhetorical -- just thinking out loud. But would be interested to know what others think. Is publishing your sine qua non? Even if you don't like what you are producing, does getting published make it worthwhile? Or is it better to produce what you think is right even if nobody else likes it?

I suspect this has been discussed ad infinitum in previous posts, apologies if I am being boring.

 

[Emurelda]

Some stories are like an arranged marriage - you grow to love them

 

[Robinne Weiss]

I have many ideas for writing. Sometimes I choose to focus on a particular idea because I think it's marketable. Sometimes I choose to focus on an idea because it's one I simply want to write, and to hell with everyone else. I don't see why we can't have it both ways (provided we write more than one piece in our lifetimes...) Besides, many marketable ideas are actually really good!

 

[Carol Rose]

Long answer: I can only speak to my own experience, and only to that experience in my own little corner of the publishing world. I have chosen not to write to trends, and I have chosen not to write in the way the majority of our readers like to read. As such, my sales are so-so. I know this. I know what I would need to do in order to have them not be so-so. But because my brain cells would implode if I did, and because I'm quite certain my IQ would drop at least thirty points with the first book written in such a way, I have chosen not to do it.

Instead, I'm stubbornly carving out my own little niche in that world. I'm writing what I want to write, in the way I want to write it, and in the way my characters are feeding it to me. And, I'm finding there are still readers out there who don't mind taking the time to enjoy a book, or who don't mind using their brains when they read it. Not as many as the opposite, but they are there. That gives me hope.

Short answer: Don't sell yourself short by following trends, just to be published. Write what's in your heart. Write what your muse tells you to write. Write it well, by all means, but make sure it's uniquely yours.

 

[Paul Whybrow]

A lot of famous writers over the years have said something along the lines of, 'I write the sort of stories that I like to read.' This sounds simplistic, but how would you feel about yourself if you wrote the sort of stories you detested?

If they sold well, then the earnings might be a comfort, but unless you were a psychopath you'd still feel like you'd compromised your values. You might also have entered a Faustian pact, in which you were trapped and doomed to repeat writing books you hate.

Such a situation can happen accidentally, and I've sometimes worried about what I'd do if, say, my poetry became popular when I really wanted recognition for my crime novels. These tricks of fate have happened to many famous entertainers...just think of the actors who really wanted to be rock musicians and vice-versa.

Cyril Connolly, a writer, critic and editor, summed up the dilemma:

Better to write for yourself and have no public, than to write for the public and have no self.

There's only so much room on any band waggon that you're thinking of jumping onto, and people soon get tired of copycats. Far better to ride out on your own.

 

[Marc Joan]

Goo d advice all, thanks

 

[Matnov]

Cyril Connolly, a writer, critic and editor, summed up the dilemma:

Better to write for yourself and have no public, than to write for the public and have no self.

That sums it up perfectly for me. I write because that is what I love doing. If somebody wants to pay good money to read the finished product (and the actual publication is crucial to the process), then great but if they do not, then c'est la vie.

Also, and perhaps I am a rarity here, the thought of being a 'famous' author with all that goes with it fills me with a terrible sense of dread. I relish my privacy and whilst I accept that writing is essentially a specific part of the wider 'show business industry', with all that entails, I cannot imagine any horror worse than having to do the circuit of tours and interviews and so on.

I love self-publishing because it allows me to set my own rules. Not sure I could, or would be able, to play by the rules of the mainstream publishing industry.

 

[David Newrick]

...should I write that which I feel to be good; or that which has the best chance of being published? (Still struggling with the basics here...!) I'm being rhetorical -- just thinking out loud. But would be interested to know what others think. Is publishing your sine qua non? Even if you don't like what you are producing, does getting published make it worthwhile? Or is it better to produce what you think is right even if nobody else likes it?

I suspect this has been discussed ad infinitum in previous posts, apologies if I am being boring.

You are right to be considering this Marc. Ultimately writing for profit is a job.

If you want to write not-for-profit then do whatever you enjoy doing and publish by whichever non-commercial means you prefer - within limits of course. It can be as extreme as you like, uncommercial as you like, it can be as poor as you like. It is up to you because it is actually a hobby.

If you want to write for-profit, i.e. for it to be a job paying you an income, then like any job you will spend many days, months even, doing things you don't particularly like or enjoy. There as mornings I get up for work and don't feel like going in, but I want to work so I do it. Quite frankly, I also need to work to earn a living because I wasn't born wealthy. For a writer in today's commercial publishing world your 'job' entails self-marketing, giving talks, going to meetings, answering queries, considering contracts and endless other tasks which you may not particularly enjoy and which may even stall your writing for quite a while.

Being involved in a local writers' group I get to see and hear these issues regularly, which is why I have drawn the conclusions above. The majority of it's members have opted for self-publishing. Two members have published commercially. One of those admits he 'can't be bothered' to market his work and admits that this has seriously impacted sales - he does not have a literary agent as far as I am aware. The other writes children's books and has just had his last MS turned down by his agent and publisher - he wants to write a different kind of story to his previous work apparently, but it has not gone well. So you see there a microcosm of writing for profit and the reality of what the book buying public want. You notice I said what the book buying public want, because ultimately it is the readers who are calling the shots not you or anyone else. If they buy your book by the tens of millions (mentioning no names) then they are demonstrating reader power. But at any time readers can decide you are out of fashion and buy someone else's work. It is up to them what they buy. And no one in the publishing industry has a clue what the next big thing is so they can't tell you where readers will go next.

So it's up to you Marc. You decide.

 

[Paul Whybrow]

That sums it up perfectly for me. I write because that is what I love doing. If somebody wants to pay good money to read the finished product (and the actual publication is crucial to the process), then great but if they do not, then c'est la vie.

Also, and perhaps I am a rarity here, the thought of being a 'famous' author with all that goes with it fills me with a terrible sense of dread. I relish my privacy and whilst I accept that writing is essentially a specific part of the wider 'show business industry', with all that entails, I cannot imagine any horror worse than having to do the circuit of tours and interviews and so on.

I love self-publishing because it allows me to set my own rules. Not sure I could, or would be able, to play by the rules of the mainstream publishing industry.

I feel the same way, for though I'm rather a convivial fellow when I choose to be, the thought of being pressured into performing like some circus monkey brings out the King Kong in me!

I already felt irate about this side of publishing, when I returned to creative writing in 2013. So much so, that one of the first poems I wrote was from the viewpoint of a famous elderly novelist guarding his privacy, and angry at a request for an interview from a young journalist trying to further his career. I console myself with the thought that it might have been a prescient composition.

The cult of celebrity is so intrusive these days, that one sign that an author has really made it is when scandal sheets start to write about their sex lives!

Unfortunately, the days of reclusive authors like Harper Lee, JD Salinger and Thomas Pynchon are long gone. The only writer who still gets away with being elusive is Cormac McCarthy, who never gives interviews; his work speaks for itself.

My own favourite mysterious author was B Traven, best-known for penning The Treasure of the Sierra Madre, later filmed starring Humphrey Bogart. Leave them wondering....

B. Traven - Wikipedia

 

[1408]

Short answer: Don't sell yourself short by following trends, just to be published. Write what's in your heart. Write what your muse tells you to write. Write it well, by all means, but make sure it's uniquely yours.

Beautiful.

In the end I guess it depends why you're in it. You can do either, and you can do both. If you want to try writing what you think a publisher will be interested in then by all means go for it, maybe you'll find pleasure there. But, as Carol puts so well, there's nothing like that feeling of doing what you know you do best.

One final thought on this, do any of us really know what a publisher is looking for when so often they don't even seem to know exactly what they want? Of course they have a genre or an interest, but I've read about agents deciding to pick up a book because it was about a break up and they were going through a break up. At the end of the day, they're just readers. And, no writer writes better than when it's fueled by a passion, a muse, that final sentence before you get to have another cup of tea.

 

[Emurelda]

Beautiful.

In the end I guess it depends why you're in it. You can do either, and you can do both. If you want to try writing what you think a publisher will be interested in then by all means go for it, maybe you'll find pleasure there. But, as Carol puts so well, there's nothing like that feeling of doing what you know you do best.

One final thought on this, do any of us really know what a publisher is looking for when so often they don't even seem to know exactly what they want? Of course they have a genre or an interest, but I've read about agents deciding to pick up a book because it was about a break up and they were going through a break up. At the end of the day, they're just readers. And, no writer writes better than when it's fueled by a passion, a muse, that final sentence before you get to have another cup of tea.

Welcome back @1408 ! Happy to 'see' you.

 

[1408]

Welcome back @1408 ! Happy to 'see' you.

'ello lovely! Thank you very much! I enjoy that I can now hand out medals and believe it won't be long until I design my flag.

Lookin' forward to catching up on all the threads!

 

[Matnov]

If you want to write for-profit, i.e. for it to be a job paying you an income, then like any job you will spend many days, months even, doing things you don't particularly like or enjoy. There as mornings I get up for work and don't feel like going in, but I want to work so I do it. Quite frankly, I also need to work to earn a living because I wasn't born wealthy. For a writer in today's commercial publishing world your 'job' entails self-marketing, giving talks, going to meetings, answering queries, considering contracts and endless other tasks which you may not particularly enjoy and which may even stall your writing for quite a while.

All of that makes a lot of sense. I guess that for me writing has been something that I have always seen as a hobby rather than a career option and that if somebody truly wishes to make it a way of earning a living, then it requires trudging those extra miles to do so. Not sure I have it in me. Need to be honest about that, as much as to myself as other people.

 

[David Newrick]

All of that makes a lot of sense. I guess that for me writing has been something that I have always seen as a hobby rather than a career option and that if somebody truly wishes to make it a way of earning a living, then it requires trudging those extra miles to do so. Not sure I have it in me. Need to be honest about that, as much as to myself as other people.

I actually felt quite bad after posting my message Matnov, but it is the harsh reality that we here on Litopia and I know agent Pete especially has tried to debunk the hype of people essentially trying to sell you their services or 'advice'. But don't let me put you off Matnov - stick with it. Just be realistic about what you are wishing for.

My post also made me think about the endless hype there is around writing now and I genuinely think it is a phenomenon of the digital age. With all the writing advice websites, podcasts and the like, coupled with the drive by Google and Amazon to digitize books, everything has become distorted and unclear. We are all now completely awash with information and data. It will be interesting to see where things go from here because as I said in another post it is the readers who decide and no one knows what they will do next (apart from read more 'books' by celebrities of course).

 

[Matnov]

I actually felt quite bad after posting my message Matnov, but it is the harsh reality that we here on Litopia and I know agent Pete especially has tried to debunk the hype of people essentially trying to sell you their services or 'advice'. But don't let me put you off Matnov - stick with it. Just be realistic about what you are wishing for.

Please, no need to feel bad on my behalf and you have helped me clarify my position with regards to my own adventures with the quill. Recently read 'Telling Lies for Fun and Profit' by Lawrence Block and in it he writes about people being 'Sunday writers' i.e those who just do it for the fun of it without really harbouring any real desire to make a full time career from it and it stuck with me.

Sure, if one of my works was to become this massive viral hit that paid for me to swan off into the Dalmatian Sunset that is my own exit strategy then I am not going to complain but it is not part of my make-up to invest the time and effort in the actual business side of self-publishing in terms of promoting myself as an author. Nothing wrong with those who can and I can see why people would need to do so but I know myself well enough to accept that I value my privacy to much along with being a quarrelsome middle age grump who is set in his ways.

And I would not last long under even the most under powered of public spot-lights. Probably end up in the 'clink for upsetting a variety of people given how sensitive the modern world seems intent on becoming!