Reading Simenon for voice, economy, pace

[MaryA]

Hi, everyone.
In last night's pop-up submissions, Pete suggested I take a look at Simenon's crime fiction (romans policiers or police procedurals from the 1930s onward) to look at voice, the economy of description and sustained pace.

I found a few vintage Penguins with green spines, secondhand Simenons I bought years ago. I know some of the Maigret novels quite well, but haven't studied them as models for crime/mystery writing. I'll share more as I read or reread them.

What novels do you use as a model for drafting fiction? Which authors do others here look to for guidance on plotting, POV and voice? I'd love to hear from Simenon fans.

 

[Rachel Caldecott]

Hi, everyone.
In last night's pop-up submissions, Pete suggested I take a look at Simenon's crime fiction (romans policiers or police procedurals from the 1930s onward) to look at voice, the economy of description and sustained pace.

I found a few vintage Penguins with green spines, secondhand Simenons I bought years ago. I know some of the Maigret novels quite well, but haven't studied them as models for crime/mystery writing. I'll share more as I read or reread them.

What novels do you use as a model for drafting fiction? Which authors do others here look to for guidance on plotting, POV and voice? I'd love to hear from Simenon fans.

I thought that Pete's advice to all of us was pretty spot on. Enjoy the Simenons! Good luck.

 

[Barbara]

Hi, everyone.
In last night's pop-up submissions, Pete suggested I take a look at Simenon's crime fiction (romans policiers or police procedurals from the 1930s onward) to look at voice, the economy of description and sustained pace.

I found a few vintage Penguins with green spines, secondhand Simenons I bought years ago. I know some of the Maigret novels quite well, but haven't studied them as models for crime/mystery writing. I'll share more as I read or reread them.

What novels do you use as a model for drafting fiction? Which authors do others here look to for guidance on plotting, POV and voice? I'd love to hear from Simenon fans.

Hey Mary.

I heard the pop up yesterday. Very encouraging feedback all round.

I'm not sure how useful this will be for you but I don't usually use novels as a model for drafting fiction. Even though I tend to plunge in and see what happens, telling the story as it unfolds in my head (probably not ideal?), I do look to movies and scripts. Probably because of my acting days. Films rarely waste time by lingering on descriptions/images, but gallop along with the plot, sustaining the pace. If a film does linger on an image, you know it's important. I look to plays too. I know it's a cliche for a thesp, but find Shakespeare to be a great plotter with perfect timing. Reading plays also helps me with writing dialogue. (Just don't look to Pinter or you'll end up with long gaps of blank pages). The only problem with all this is that by looking to films as opposed to novels, I end up too economical sometimes. (AgentPete did say that my first chapter is a bit sparce). It also means that my work sometimes reads like a play, and is dialogue heavy, lingering on stuff (one of my fave playwrights is Sam Beckett - he does a lot of lingering, waiting for Godot). I guess it's all about finding balance. I used to be super wordy, explaining everything, but I recently wanted to enter my kids novel into a comp which had a max word count of 6oK or so. My MS had 80. By trying to get the word count down, I found I became more economical and tight on the descriptions, cutting stuff I don't need. I went through the MS and thought: Don't need this. Don't need that. I can cut this without losing the plot ... This might help you with the economy of description in your novel.

As for voice, I just write how I think, without trying to write. I don't look to other novels for that, as I'm worried I might be influenced.

With regards to the POV, rather than looking to what other novelists have done, I aim for what I hope makes the story most intimate and effective; how close do I want it for the reader. But I've got that wrong on too many occasions. I'm not sure if you listened to the pop up a couple of weeks ago. Goodness knows what went wrong with my POV with the nutty Mum. I hadn't noticed it until AgentPete pointed it out. Maybe I should look to other authors on that one.

Have you heard of Syd Field? He's all about screenwriting but his concepts on storytelling are fascinating, very useful, and I feel translate to novel writing too ... 3 act structure, pace, and all that. Reading some of his books on screenwriting might help you sort your pace.

I'm sure you'll sort it out. I've read a few postings of yours here on the forum, and you are a good writer.

 

[MaryA]

Thanks for the encouraging suggestions, @Barbara. I'll look out for Syd Field. Yes, I listened in to the feedback on your submission, it strikes me that many of us can see how we go off-track when we see the same thing in someone else's fiction drafts. Writing is so intuitive at first, just telling ourselves the story and then revising without over-writing.

When I'm not really immersed in my fiction, I can see the voice goes faint or tentative and I start editing myself. That happens with non-fiction too when I am not confident enough about my angle or the narrative. And fiction is always so interior. I was just thinking about Simenon's Maigret watching and listening to his suspects or bystanders, the weather in the streets, the smoking and drinking, the occasional clue he follows up: the pace isn't fast compared to many contemporary crime writers but it holds you close, hooked into what is happening.

 

[Barbara]

Thanks for the encouraging suggestions, @Barbara. I'll look out for Syd Field. Yes, I listened in to the feedback on your submission, it strikes me that many of us can see how we go off-track when we see the same thing in someone else's fiction drafts. Writing is so intuitive at first, just telling ourselves the story and then revising without over-writing.

When I'm not really immersed in my fiction, I can see the voice goes faint or tentative and I start editing myself. That happens with non-fiction too when I am not confident enough about my angle or the narrative. And fiction is always so interior. I was just thinking about Simenon's Maigret watching and listening to his suspects or bystanders, the weather in the streets, the smoking and drinking, the occasional clue he follows up: the pace isn't fast compared to many contemporary crime writers but it holds you close, hooked into what is happening.

You're right about seeing the work going off track in someone else's fiction. I guess that's why we need feedback. We're too close and lose sight. I found it really useful to hear Pete read my words out loud. A different voice other than mine, really helped me see my mistakes. I might just ask a friend to read my next novel out to me when I'm done. And you're right: pace isn't necessarily about speed, but more about keeping the tension and hook, whether that be slow or not.

 

[Sea-shore]

Good luck with your ms, Mary! I hope this gets published. I'm already a fan.
(And I loved all the detail in your writing. )

 

[MaryA]

You're so kind, @Sea-shore, right now my submitted draft fiction is sitting in a quiet drawer while I go back to the drawing board. As you know, I'm trying to make that big jump from obscure experimental poetry and short fiction to a more commercial realist novel, so I am right back at the drawing board. If it doesn't work , it doesn't work and I must try something else.

Busy reading Simenon's Maigret in Society (1960) and curious to see how little backstory he uses. So many writers rely on backstory and flashbacks for motivation. Simenon has Maigret and others reacting and Maigret notices the reactions but doesn't delve into them, his own or those of others. He just keeps watching and noting. I'm wondering as I read if Georges Perec of Oulipo was a fan of Simenon or it is just the '60s ambiance that seems similar.

 

[Rich.]

What novels do you use as a model for drafting fiction? Which authors do others here look to for guidance on plotting, POV and voice? I'd love to hear from Simenon fans.

So, genre-monkey that I am, I'm currently reading epic fantasy written since 2010 as a preliminary to my next project – checking the market, as it were. I've recently waded through the first of Brandon Sanderson's Stormlight novels. It's largely guff but does illustrate the multi-character, close-third-person style of much modern fantasy, and the soap opera structure. I've also been reading The Ninth Rain by Jen Williams, a British author doing good things. Her POV and structure is similar to Sanderson's, but she does it better. But both of them are walking in George RR Martin's footsteps. Game of Thrones still seems to be the template here. As for voice, all of the above are fairly neutral. Different characters have different voices, but not nearly as much as they could. This kind of fantasy is often grand, sweeping, and full of grey people. Meh. (I'm doing Jen Williams a disservice – she's my favourite of this bunch, and I'm enjoying The Ninth Rain a lot.)

One author who has successfully broken this mould is Patrick Rothfuss in The Name of the Wind. He combines first person narrative with omniscient camera-eye. The tale is a frame story: a character presented in omniscient POV tells us about his younger self in first person. Structurally there are two stories. It's a wonderful example of what can be done with mainstream genre. The voice is strong in both stories and full of personality, which is curious in the omniscient sections, but fits well with the notion of epic tales told round a campfire. Rothfuss owes a lot to Ursula Le Guin (whose work I love), and he carries her baton with confidence.

Outside my genre. but still commercial, I'll always look to John Le Carré for everything, particularly his use of gesture and speech; the man is a master.

 

[Katie-Ellen]

You're so kind, @Sea-shore, right now my submitted draft fiction is sitting in a quiet drawer while I go back to the drawing board. As you know, I'm trying to make that big jump from obscure experimental poetry and short fiction to a more commercial realist novel, so I am right back at the drawing board. If it doesn't work , it doesn't work and I must try something else.

Busy reading Simenon's Maigret in Society (1960) and curious to see how little backstory he uses. So many writers rely on backstory and flashbacks for motivation. Simenon has Maigret and others reacting and Maigret notices the reactions but doesn't delve into them, his own or those of others. He just keeps watching and noting. I'm wondering as I read if Georges Perec of Oulipo was a fan of Simenon or it is just the '60s ambiance that seems similar.

You are a wonderful writer @MaryA. Absolutely wonderful. The intro is the hardest bit, I've found, and yours did not, I felt, do your unique voice justice. Easily remedied by a writer of your skill; it was just overworked. I do that myself. Poetic prose.

Am reading, but it is too horrific to actually read, being the story of Medea, a novel called Bright Air Black by David Vann. The Medea tragedy is hideous, disgusting actually; his writing sublime. He studied the classics at Uni and this legend, Jason and the doughnuts as my daughters used to say when small....haunted him.

Your voice in Falling, is that of the poetic writer. Feeling came first and gave form to the words. That's how it should be, I passionately feel. I'd say, use that voice of yours, make us all cry. The photo of the baby....and I have an old photo of my own, go straight to it, and put it in the first page. Go on! Clobber us! Haunt us. You know you can.

 

[Paul Whybrow]

You are a wonderful writer @MaryA. Absolutely wonderful. The intro is the hardest bit, I've found, and yours did not, I felt, do your unique voice justice. Easily remedied by a writer of your skill; it was just overworked. I do that myself. Poetic prose.

Am reading, but it is too horrific to actually read, being the story of Medea, a novel called Bright Air Black by David Vann. The Medea tragedy is hideous, disgusting actually; his writing sublime. He studied the classics at Uni and this legend, Jason and the doughnuts as my daughters used to say when small....haunted him.

Your voice in Falling, is that of the poetic writer. Feeling came first and gave form to the words. That's how it should be, I passionately feel. I'd say, use that voice of yours, make us all cry. The photo of the baby....and I have an old photo of my own, go straight to it, and put it in the first page. Go on! Clobber us! Haunt us. You know you can.

Mention of David Vann gave me the collywobbles! I read his Legend of a Suicide and Caribou Island back to back in 2014, at a time when I was coming out of a long period of depression. His story-telling almost sent me back into the pits of despair...dark, dark, dark. Well-written, but the book cover should carry a health warning that it's not to be read by anyone feeling depressed.

 

[Rich.]

You are a wonderful writer @MaryA. Absolutely wonderful. ...

And if anyone doubts it, read this bit of flash by Mary. It was the first thing of hers I read. It's still ringing in my ears.

Chapeau, Mary. Keep at it.

 

[Katie-Ellen]

Caribou Island uggghhhh...I so agree @Paul Whybrow


Why could she not just have left the bugger.

 

[Paul Whybrow]

Hi, everyone.
In last night's pop-up submissions, Pete suggested I take a look at Simenon's crime fiction (romans policiers or police procedurals from the 1930s onward) to look at voice, the economy of description and sustained pace.

I found a few vintage Penguins with green spines, secondhand Simenons I bought years ago. I know some of the Maigret novels quite well, but haven't studied them as models for crime/mystery writing. I'll share more as I read or reread them.

What novels do you use as a model for drafting fiction? Which authors do others here look to for guidance on plotting, POV and voice? I'd love to hear from Simenon fans.

Following Agent Pete's recommendation to MaryA, I'm re-reading Maigret who I haven't visited for 30 years. I'm forty pages into Maigret Sets A Trap and enjoying it, but the first thing that struck me about it was that it these days it wouldn't be acceptable as a first novel by a debut author—and maybe not as a follow-up work unless the author already had spectacular sales success. This is because the pacing is so slow for modern tastes. It doesn't trouble me, for I'm patient and I like to see a story gradually unfold its petals. It was published in 1955, a time when readers had attention spans that exceeded that of a goldfish!

From the same year, an interview with Georges Simenon: https://www.theparisreview.org/interviews/5020/georges-simenon-the-art-of-fiction-no-9-georges-simenon?

 

[Amber]

They look interesting and I almost got one or two of his books the other day. It's just, I already have so much I want to read. It's hard to pick.

 

[MaryA]

I know that feeling, @Amber. My 'to read' pile of books is going to topple over any day now.

Last night when I was listening to @AgentPete, I realised that I don't always trust my voice. The novel I've been working on is a genre (crime mystery x psychological thriller) that I read but don't know that well. I kept thinking I needed to sound more like a crime writer (whatever that is) and editing my sentences over and over.
Genre trouble! That was part of it. My original first page was unsettling and relentless. I should go back there and stay with something of that dark energy and impetus. It sprang at me like a tiger.

 

[Katie-Ellen]

@MaryA

Yes! Do eeeetttt!