Membership Changes

[Emily]

I dunno.

At the end of the day, there is a human being here who has invested thousands of his own valuable time and thousands of his own pounds in order to give us a safe and creative space to meet, be supported, get feedback and professional advice. I think we have all benefitted from it, and as a community, we are strong and kind and have something I doubt there is anywhere else in the world – not just the ‘net.

I feel very strongly that this is a privilege and the person who has created this privilege has asked to be reimbursed so he isn’t wholly out of pocket, and that is a very simple black and white position for me. In order to use this privilege, it is only fair to pay for it, whether we like it or not or whatevs

I don't think it is okay, in order to make the payment "sweeter" and more palatable, that he has to do more than he is already (competitions, give more of his time, courses etc). I really don't.

 

[yanapuma]

I'm flat out broke at the moment and just can't afford to offer anything until I get some more work. So am against the idea of compulsory payment, although I do really appreciate all the work contributors make, particularlt Agent Pete! And when I an afford it I will pay something ... but would ask that we keep the system free as it is now and that people who can afford to pay a little more.

 

[Chase Gamwell]

@Rainbird thanks for putting into words what I’ve been wanting (but struggling to find the words) to say for the past few days.

Litopia is a great writing community that does - for minimal cost - what other places charge a premium for. Ten minutes with an agent for a quick pitch session usually costs $10+. A query letter critique can cost $50+. The equivalent of surgery can cost $250+. Personally, what Pete does now is more than enough (he does have a full time job on top of everything he does for Litopia at a loss). And if he asks for a membership fee to support the site in order to keep it going, I’m more than happy to contribute.

As many others have said, I can’t put a dollar amount on how much benefit I’ve gotten from Litopia, but it’s worth the subscription. On the other hand, I understand that budgeting is very important for a lot of people. For me, that means limiting myself to “Patron” until I have the budget to give more. Heck, it might even mean canceling my subscription at some point if things get tight. Hopefully, that’ll never happen, but I understand that point of view because I have been there.

At the end of the day, I really think that Litopia is, and will continue to be, a fantastic community. And I hope that the new subscriptions will help enough to keep it going for many years to come.

 

[E G Logan]

I am entirely with Chase on this one.
"As many others have said, I can’t put a dollar amount on how much benefit I’ve gotten from Litopia, but it’s worth the subscription. On the other hand, I understand that budgeting is very important for a lot of people. For me, that means limiting myself to “Patron” until I have the budget to give more."

Thank you, Chase, for putting precisely into words what I was thinking.

 

[E G Logan]

No, I think it's just rudeness, actually.

My point exactly.
You do not need that.

 

[RK Wallis]

My feeling at the moment is that we simply need a bit more visibility / awareness. We could easily absorb more members, which would help the finances a lot. Building awareness is the #1 challenge right now.

Someone mentioned Pop Ups on the Australian Writers Forum and 3 of us have joined here too, so word spreads down under

 

[AgentPete]

My point exactly.
You do not need that.

I asked the gentleman to explain himself, privately. More rudeness. He has now departed.

 

[Paul Whybrow]

@AgentPete, I'm probably stating the obvious—which I'm notorious for missing—but, would it be a good thing if those of us with a blog, newsletter and active social media accounts mentioned the Colony to attract new members?

Of course, it would, though the more people using a forum, the more nutters and rude oafs there'll be—making discussions harder to police. Before joining the Colony in 2015, I briefly attempted to participate in threads on Goodreads, which had all the charm of throwing a large rock into a cesspool, as the place seemed to be populated with trolls trying to start a fight!

At present, the Colony is a place to go online for support, education, humour and debate. We're kind to one another. I wouldn't want that to change.

 

[AgentPete]

At present, the Colony is a place to go online for support, education, humour and debate. We're kind to one another. I wouldn't want that to change.

I don’t want that to change, either. I’ve given a lot of thought to this, and I believe a “cellular” basis is the right way for us to grow, with no “cell” comfortably larger than natural human dimensions. But I don’t want unlimited growth, either. We’ll never be WattPad

 

[Steve C]

I sense a bit of a dilema. On the one hand more paying members add viability but on the other small is beautiful comes to mind. A very tricky balancing act called for. Here it seems possible to feel a part of something that is not possible elsewhere. Fortunately Agent Pete who has to weigh things up seems aware of the the contrasting demands. Perhaps we should club together and buy him one of those poles wire walkers use to get to their destination.

 

[Amber]

After scanning all of these various comments I have two cents ... or two pence ...

I think it's totally appropriate to charge for access to the Writing Groups. Websites which do something similar charge.

I don't think a trial membership is a good idea. It encourages people to reinvent themselves so they can avoid a charge and still get what they want. No use saying they shouldn't or they won't--they will. This would change the entire atmosphere of Litopia.

I don't think feedback from @AgentPete in the Writing Groups is a good idea. It would make them something other than what they are. The word of an agent has a different value than the word of a fellow writer or reader.

I agree with @Carol Rose. Rewards = Competition It would be making the writing groups something other than what it is.

 

[Deleted member 604]

I don't think feedback from @AgentPete in the Writing Groups is a good idea. It would make them something other than what they are. The word of an agent has a different value than the word of a fellow writer or reader.

Not even regarding query packages? Because Query Letters are put up in The Writing Room, not just stories now. And I totally agree I wouldn't want to turn the Writing Groups into something else either. But at the same time people are paying now to access the writing room. Won't they start to question what they are getting for their money? Just a thought. I know fellow Litopians don't, like me and you but how about all the new members who have never been here before?
Kindest Regards,
Alix

 

[Emily]

Won't they start to question what they are getting for their money?

Perhaps they will. And that's okay if they do.

And if they are bothered enough to wonder and look for answers, they will see that for the pittance they pay, they get more than enough. Much more. And if they have an issue with that, they shouldn't be here.

And should anyone take issue further, please send them my way.

(I'm getting increasingly intolerant in my old age).

 

[AgentPete]

I don't think feedback from @AgentPete in the Writing Groups is a good idea. It would make them something other than what they are. The word of an agent has a different value than the word of a fellow writer or reader.

Totally agree. WGs are for developing your work and your skills. The next stage is Submission Surgery, currently no backlog at all.

 

[Amber]

Not even regarding query packages? Because Query Letters are put up in The Writing Room, not just stories now. And I totally agree I wouldn't want to turn the Writing Groups into something else either. But at the same time people are paying now to access the writing room. Won't they start to question what they are getting for their money? Just a thought. I know fellow Litopians don't, like me and you but how about all the new members who have never been here before?
Kindest Regards,
Alix

Well. Isn't it always a good idea to question what you're getting from your money?

People who don't think they're getting value will either stop paying or they'll do what they need to do in order to get value for their money. There's a scene in Practical Magic where a customer comes into Sandra Bullock's store and complains about paying a lot of money for a tonic that would cure his baldness. He drank the entire bottle and nothing happened. Well, he wasn't supposed to drink it.

I like the Writing Groups. They're not exactly a critique group. They're not exactly an agent. The activity in the writing groups seems to be cyclical. Lots of people have free access now who don't utilize the Writing Groups at all. I think charging people for it will make them use it. People don't only invest in what they value, they value what they invest in.

 

[Amber]

Not even regarding query packages? Because Query Letters are put up in The Writing Room, not just stories now.

Oh. I totally forgot why I originally responded to your post.

I think you've heard of Query Shark. I like the name. I think she calls herself the Query Shark because she's hunting for good queries. But also.... she's a shark swimming in the great big ocean and people keep throwing chum at her. Day and night, all she gets is chum when what she really
wants to do is sink her teeth into a fleshy leg.

Open up the Writing Groups for an agent to look at queries and that's what you'd have. Chum. Day and night. You'd never see blue water again.

 

[Deleted member 604]

I think she calls herself the Query Shark because she's hunting for good queries. But also.... she's a shark swimming in the great big ocean and people keep throwing chum at her. Day and night, all she gets is chum when what she really
wants to do is sink her teeth into a fleshy leg.

I love this and I know I shouldn't laugh. You crack me up sometimes, you make me giggle actually.
Because I love what you have written about the Query Shark and No, I haven't heard of such a beast but I have now. And you know what, I like the sound of her and good job I can swim, mind you, what good will that do me LOL none whatsoever

 

[Deleted member 604]

Practical Magic

And I love that film

 

[Amber]

And I love that film

I know it's great ... I always cry at the end when they jump off the roof ... and also at the beginning when the witch jumps off the gallows ... and often when she's looking out the window and the spoon is stirring the cup of tea ... and sometimes when she runs towards her husband and jumps into his arms .... and then towards the end when Aidan Quinn says he wished for her too....

 

[Deleted member 604]

and sometimes when she runs towards her husband and jumps into his arms .... and then towards the end when Aidan Quinn says he wished for her too....

I know...WAIL

 

[Amber]

I dunno.

At the end of the day, there is a human being here who has invested thousands of his own valuable time and thousands of his own pounds in order to give us a safe and creative space to meet, be supported, get feedback and professional advice. I think we have all benefitted from it, and as a community, we are strong and kind and have something I doubt there is anywhere else in the world – not just the ‘net.

I feel very strongly that this is a privilege and the person who has created this privilege has asked to be reimbursed so he isn’t wholly out of pocket, and that is a very simple black and white position for me. In order to use this privilege, it is only fair to pay for it, whether we like it or not or whatevs

I don't think it is okay, in order to make the payment "sweeter" and more palatable, that he has to do more than he is already (competitions, give more of his time, courses etc). I really don't.

yeah .....

 

[RK Wallis]

As someone new to the Writing Groups, I think they're worth paying for without Agent Pete's input. When I'm ready, I'll definitely step up to Submission Surgery, but that's not yet, until then (if ever) I'll just enjoy writing for writing.

Re Queryshark, I've submitted twice now and not been picked. I don't think that's any reflection on my writing, Janet's just so swamped and she doesn't post often. The archives are well worth a read. In order to submit you have to have read the entire archives. I go back and reread all the time. I love her bite!

 

[Steve C]

As someone new to the Writing Groups, I think they're worth paying for without Agent Pete's input. When I'm ready, I'll definitely step up to Submission Surgery, but that's not yet, until then (if ever) I'll just enjoy writing for writing.

Re Queryshark, I've submitted twice now and not been picked. I don't think that's any reflection on my writing, Janet's just so swamped and she doesn't post often. The archives are well worth a read. In order to submit you have to have read the entire archives. I go back and reread all the time. I love her bite!

Me too. Once I am happy with my book I would consider upgrading so I can access Surgery.(Are anaesthetics available for the sensitive souls?) However I think it would be a good idea to make the first post in that section available to all so we know what is involved. At the moment anyyone joining would have no idea what it involves other than guessing from the title. The post is titled: All About The Submissions Surgery (And Why You Should Use It!) Without being able to open that post why would anyone pay for it.?

Regarding query shark I looked around the sight and got confused. There seems to be so many different views on how to write the things my head spun. Researching elsewhere there seems a consensus on what bits of info must be included but not how best to do it. I will soon post my attempt in the WG section for members to comment on.

 

[RK Wallis]

(Are anaesthetics available for the sensitive souls?)

lol, you'd be a billionaire with so many writers! I'm first in line!

There seems to be so many different views on how to write the things my head spun.

There's only one view. Janet's. Her view (she's the agent) is in blue text. I never read the comments, I read for Janet's insight.

 

[Carol Rose]

We’ll never be WattPad

Thank the Good Lord for that.