Service Update Early Warning of Membership Changes

[AgentPete]

I just want to post this well before making a full announcement, to ensure that no-one is taken by surprise.

Later in the year, there will be substantial membership changes that will affect new members signing up. The key changes are (1) free membership (“Basic”) will no longer be offered; (2) the only membership available to new sign-ups will be yearly; and (3) the cost of a new yearly membership will rise appreciably.

You will be pleased to know that all existing memberships will continue to be honoured on the existing basis.

What this means is that:

• All existing Basic members will continue their memberships as at present.
• All Full Members will continue their memberships as at present and at the same price.
• All existing non-yearly membership schemes (monthly, quarterly) will continue as at present, but will no longer be available to purchase.

If a Full Membership lapses then the member will revert to Basic status. However, subsequently upgrading to Full Membership will be charged at the new rate.

What this means in practice is that if you’re a Basic member thinking about upgrading to Full Membership, you should do it before the membership changes are announced, because this will lock in your subscription rate at the existing $99.95 p.a.

Hope the above is clear, let me know below.

 

[Bloo]

Oof. That's a bitter pill to swallow. I'd worry that future subscriptions will be affected. Many people like to try before they buy.

Can you tell us what's driving this - is it the financials? Will the rise help pay for new features and functionality? Otherwise, I've noticed an uptick in one-and-done posts, where published authors drop in seemingly just to expose their work. Is that a factor?

Will there be a grace period for lapsed members to retain the legacy price? I recently let my membership lapse for about a day. I don't want to get whacked if I forget again.

Yeah...lots of questions. Thanks for the heads-up.

 

[AgentPete]

I'd worry that future subscriptions will be affected. Many people like to try before they buy.

They will still be able to. (1) We'll be using coupon promotions much more than we have done, the new pricing will give us increased flexibilty to do just that. (2) We will probably have a short "trial period" for folk to join and nose around. However, they will have to give payment details on sign-up. Cards will then only be charged after the trial period.

Can you tell us what's driving this - is it the financials?

Partly yes. We do need to wash our face.
But also, there's the question of perceived value. We give a lot of real & unique value here, most of which is currently available for free, and hence has little perceived value for those who sign up at no cost.

Will the rise help pay for new features and functionality?

Yes.

Otherwise, I've noticed an uptick in one-and-done posts, where published authors drop in seemingly just to expose their work. Is that a factor?

Yes.

Will there be a grace period for lapsed members to retain the legacy price? I recently let my membership lapse for about a day. I don't want to get whacked if I forget again.

Absolutely. This kind of situation will have to be manually resolved, rather than coding it into the system (we’ve just had a lot of coding done, it’s darned expensive!).

On expiry, an email will go out to Full Members with grace period details and procedure.

Yeah...lots of questions. Thanks for the heads-up.

p.

 

[Rachael Burnett]

This reminded me to check when my subscription is due. However, I can't find where this is and or how to pay for the next year. I've searched the help but couldn't find it there either. It's probably just me being a bit dense, but could someone point me in the right direction?

 

[AgentPete]

Will send you a direct message, Rachael. P.

 

[LJ Beck]

Thanks @AgentPete for the info and transparency. It's impressive that you involve us members as much as you do with the inner workings of the site. The changes makes sense to me and keeping the status quo for existing members is much appreciated.

 

[Sedayne]

This makes total sense to me. I had been pondering the value of my full membership because I can't do Huddles. But I've never begrudged my full membership because I feel committed to the Litopia community nonetheless. (And I've never felt like that about anything online before).
Anyway, in terms of perceived value, this is a smart move. I'll migrate from monthly to annual for next month.

 

[AgentPete]

I can't do Huddles.

You'd be welcome to come to our monthly Huddle South, if that's better scheduling for you...?

 

[Sedayne]

You'd be welcome to come to our monthly Huddle South, if that's better scheduling for you...?

Thanks. I have thought about that, but I would have to leave for work before the end. And I'll be honest here - it's not just a scheduling issue for me (although timing on Saturdays is usually impossible) - I find it anxiety-inducing, and it's probably not for me.

 

[LJ Beck]

Thanks. I have thought about that, but I would have to leave for work before the end. And I'll be honest here - it's not just a scheduling issue for me (although timing on Saturdays is usually impossible) - I find it anxiety-inducing, and it's probably not for me.

I totally get it. But I have to say, huddle south is a gentler huddle. There’s usually less of us and we’re pretty mild. Maybe if you can swing it, come and stay off camera and if you want, just listen in? And you don’t have to submit anything if you don’t want (ever) and only give feedback on what you want as well, or not. HS is very casual, friendly and welcoming. And fun! Would be lovely to “see” you at any level of participation. X

(That said no pressure!! Schedule sounds quite difficult to make work as well.)

 

[Sedayne]

I totally get it. But I have to say, huddle south is a gentler huddle. There’s usually less of us and we’re pretty mild. Maybe if you can swing it, come and stay off camera and if you want, just listen in? And you don’t have to submit anything if you don’t want (ever) and only give feedback on what you want as well, or not. HS is very casual, friendly and welcoming. And fun! Would be lovely to “see” you at any level of participation. X

(That said no pressure!! Schedule sounds quite difficult to make work as well.)

Thanks Lyse
It's not that I'm especially camera shy - I gave up on vanity a long time ago - and I'm confident enough in my professional life, but social situations bring me out in a cold sweat.
And I've no idea why I find talking to writers about writing more nerve-wracking than, say, talking to patients about dying, but I do!

Thanks for your kind words - it's certainly not lack of welcome that keeps me away. You never know, I might join you for the first part sometime xx

 

[Hannah F]

Thanks. I have thought about that, but I would have to leave for work before the end. And I'll be honest here - it's not just a scheduling issue for me (although timing on Saturdays is usually impossible) - I find it anxiety-inducing, and it's probably not for me.

Anxiety could have got the better of me. I'm so glad it didn't. Huddles are a goldmine. And conquering scary is hugely rewarding.
I try to stand by the motto: If you don't try, you'll never know.

 

[AgentPete]

talking to writers about writing

I know exactly what you mean

This is one of the reasons why I dropped out of the various writers’ organisations I briefly belonged to back in the day. There are lots of issues to unpack here (don’t worry – I won’t!) but yes, it can be the opposite of fun.
(And just for the record, I need to point out that Huddles are not and have never been like that… )

Anxiety could have got the better of me. I'm so glad it didn't. Huddles are a goldmine. And conquering scary is hugely rewarding.
I try to stand by the motto: If you don't try, you'll never know.

Merci!
I'm open to the possibility of doing rather more Huddles, and perhaps aiming them at slightly different needs or requirements. EG I think Huddle South has been and is a great success, and as Lyse says, it has taken on its own distinctive character quite naturally. Having luminaries such as @Lee Murray being able to drop by is a great bonus, too.
So if anyone has any specific Huddle suggestions, let me know.

 

[Still Waters]

Thanks. I have thought about that, but I would have to leave for work before the end. And I'll be honest here - it's not just a scheduling issue for me (although timing on Saturdays is usually impossible) - I find it anxiety-inducing, and it's probably not for me.

Omg, why? I think it's also a lot easier to talk about dying, to anyone... Huddle south is "gentler?" Compared to what? How many people are there at these things?

 

[Mel L]

While I agree that Litopia offers its members immense value, and personally I am willing to pay (even an increased amount) to access all of its benefits, I am not sure it's a great idea to remove the free membership option. I am not at all certain I would have signed up as a paying member if I hadn't had the chance to see what it was all about first. I fear you will see new membership drop off with such a restrictive policy. Personally I value the diversity of input from different writers and I would hate to see the colony stagnate.

Why not keep the opportunity for people to join as Basic members but restrict their participation? For example, submitting work for critique in the Writing Lab could be a paid option, which might also address the issue of many one-offs and provide a good incentive to take out full membership.

 

[AgentPete]

Omg, why? I think it's also a lot easier to talk about dying, to anyone... Huddle south is "gentler?" Compared to what? How many people are there at these things?

Don’t fret

I had an idea you might pick up on that word!

Maybe gentler isn’t exactly right, because it suggests that the main Huddle is… tough in some way which, ahem, I hope it’s not!

 

[AgentPete]

While I agree that Litopia offers its members immense value, and personally I am willing to pay (even an increased amount) to access all of its benefits, I am not sure it's a great idea to remove the free membership option

It will still exist as a fallback for Full Members, and for existing Basic members who want to continue as such. But it won’t be an initial option on joining.

. I am not at all certain I would have signed up as a paying member if I hadn't had the chance to see what it was all about first.

That option will continue in another form, but it will be in the form of a free trial period for the whole shebang.

Personally I value the diversity of input from different writers and I would hate to see the colony stagnate.

Agreed. The entire publishing world is rapidly making it harder and harder for lower-income people to write. It’s pretty much expected now that authors must have / will have another main income source.

I think this is hugely regressive, for all sorts of reasons. And at a time when we’re publicly vaunting our inclusivity… well, you get my point.

So yes, there will be another way for lower income people to access the Colony, but not quite ready to discuss this yet.

Why not keep the opportunity for people to join as Basic members but restrict their participation? For example, submitting work for critique in the Writing Lab could be a paid option, which might also address the issue of many one-offs and provide a good incentive to take out full membership.

That’s pretty much what we have at the moment. Disadvantage is that upselling doesn’t actually work very well. Also, it’s hard to determine what’s included/excluded in Basic. EG I’m less and less persuaded to show ads to Basic members. The income we receive from this has dropped to near zero. Meaning that we’re only doing it to make it a less pleasant experience, which, um, seems wrong...
p.

 

[Sedayne]

Omg, why? I think it's also a lot easier to talk about dying, to anyone... Huddle south is "gentler?" Compared to what? How many people are there at these things?

Sorry, it's not my intention to alarm. (Nor to turn this thread into a discussion about the huddles.) I did manage to get to a huddle a few months back. Everyone was kind, friendly, funny, I did feel welcomed. I just felt overwhelmed and out of my depth with inexperience and personally I struggle with that. It is absolutely no reflection on the aims and objectives of the huddle which I suspect for most Litopians is the highlight of the week.

 

[AgentPete]

(Nor to turn this thread into a discussion about the huddles.)

Yes, threads here do tend towards the discursive

I’ve seen topic-drift actively penalised in other forums… which I’ve always found petty… foolish consistency being the hobgoblin of little minds… ™Ralph Waldo Emerson all rights reserved

 

[Sedayne]

I think the free trial is a good way forward to give folks chance to work out if it's right for them.
Interesting that new members sometimes put work up for critique straight away without critiquing others first or ever. Feels like an abuse of the service. Free trial wouldn't stop this unless there was a critique a few others before you can put your own up rule - like the 50 posts before you can blog rule (but not that many critiques )

 

[Sedayne]

Yes, threads here do tend towards the discursive

I’ve seen topic-drift actively penalised in other forums… which I’ve always found petty… foolish consistency being the hobgoblin of little minds… ™Ralph Waldo Emerson all rights reserved

Not the first time I've apologised for a tangent here. But I know I'm not the only one

 

[Bloo]

So yes, there will be another way for lower income people to access the Colony, but not quite ready to discuss this yet.

Good to know that you're considering this

Here are my thoughts...

- Allow basic members to use the forums in a limited fashion. Put a cap on weekly posts, or a lifetime cap. Don't allow them to post their work for critique...or maybe allow one 500-word scene per week? Either way, basic members can mingle and get a feel for the place.

- Add a prefix to the Lab that would allow a sub to be downloaded by a basic member. The submitter could add or remove the tag at any time.

- Allow basic members only a certain number of downloads per week (like 3, for example).

- Of course, legacy basic members wouldn't be covered by the restrictions.

- Keep gifting at the old rate so it won't hurt so much to give. Put in a check so reciprocal grifters (not a typo) won't cheat you. Allow only full members to gift someone.

An alternative to augment gifting could be "the pot". Some of us choose to make an anonymous monthly donation. Then we schedule some sort of something to gift someone. Whatever that "something" is, make sure anyone can have a say - not just contributors to the pot.

The way I see it, some new members might be such a benefit to the Colony, one of us will pay to keep them around. Yet we won't know which new members need and deserve a break unless they can interact first.

Waddayathink ?

 

[Hannah F]

I think the free trial is a good way forward to give folks chance to work out if it's right for them.
Interesting that new members sometimes put work up for critique straight away without critiquing others first or ever. Feels like an abuse of the service. Free trial wouldn't stop this unless there was a critique a few others before you can put your own up rule - like the 50 posts before you can blog rule (but not that many critiques )

I thought this was the case: you had to critique (three or something?) before you could upload your own work. Or was that just a recommendation in the guidelines? Or did it disappear in the changes? I think it's a darn good idea.

 

[AgentPete]

Allow basic members to use the forums in a limited fashion. Put a cap on weekly posts, or a lifetime cap. Don't allow them to post their work for critique...or maybe allow one 500-word scene per week? Either way, basic members can mingle and get a feel for the place.

That's possible, yes. At the moment, I want to try something we've never done before, which is to sell Full Membership at the time of joining, rather than upgrading later. There will be a free trial period that will include most (not all - e.g. not blogging) Full Member benefits. We'll know pretty soon if this is working or not, if the latter, then plan B will be pretty much as you suggest.

- Add a prefix to the Lab that would allow a sub to be downloaded by a basic member. The submitter could add or remove the tag at any time.

Will need extra coding, so expensive to implement.

- Allow basic members only a certain number of downloads per week (like 3, for example).

Yep, can easily do that.

- Keep gifting at the old rate so it won't hurt so much to give. Put in a check so reciprocal grifters (not a typo) won't cheat you. Allow only full members to gift someone.

We'll be using coupons a lot more, some of which will focused on encouraging gifting.

An alternative to augment gifting could be "the pot". Some of us choose to make an anonymous monthly donation. Then we schedule some sort of something to gift someone. Whatever that "something" is, make sure anyone can have a say - not just contributors to the pot.

Very similar to an idea I'm developing at the moment.
p.

 

[Sedayne]

I thought this was the case: you had to critique (three or something?) before you could upload your own work. Or was that just a recommendation in the guidelines? Or did it disappear in the changes? I think it's a darn good idea.

It's definitely a recommendation in the guide, but I don't think there are any limitations. On a couple of occasions I've done critiques for new members in the spirit of encouragement and welcoming, then not seen any reciprocation for mine or anyone else's work, nor any involvement in any other discussions. It feels like an abuse.

 

[AgentPete]

I thought this was the case: you had to critique (three or something?) before you could upload your own work. Or was that just a recommendation in the guidelines? Or did it disappear in the changes? I think it's a darn good idea.

We currently don't have the software to implement that, unfortunately. But it is a good idea.

 

[AgentPete]

It's definitely a recommendation in the guide, but I don't think there are any limitations. On a couple of occasions I've done critiques for new members in the spirit of encouragement and welcoming, then not seen any reciprocation for mine or anyone else's work, nor any involvement in any other discussions. It feels like an abuse.

Yup. We can impose site-wide conditions of upload (length of membership, number of posts, etc) but not forum-specific ones. So we can’t technically insist on x number of critiques before upload rights are granted.

However, this could be achieved manually via a Forum Moderator, who would confer upload privileges as appropriate. Humans are always preferable to algos, in any case

I’ve been thinking about a Lab Mod (or two) for some time, perhaps the imminent changes would be a good opportunity to get this going…

 

[Sedayne]

Yup. We can impose site-wide conditions of upload (length of membership, number of posts, etc) but not forum-specific ones. So we can’t technically insist on x number of critiques before upload rights are granted.

However, this could be achieved manually via a Forum Moderator, who would confer upload privileges as appropriate. Humans are always preferable to algos, in any case

I’ve been thinking about a Lab Mod (or two) for some time, perhaps the imminent changes would be a good opportunity to get this going…

Sounds like a good idea.
Happy to help if you need boots on the ground.

 

[AgentPete]

Sounds like a good idea.
Happy to help if you need boots on the ground.

Well yes, that would be very helpful indeed. Let me throw some notes together, set up the backend, and I’ll DM you

 

[RK Wallis]

Interesting that new members sometimes put work up for critique straight away without critiquing others first or ever. Feels like an abuse of the service.

Sadly, this happens all the time...