News The Darling Killers (a.k.a Annie and Bev start a podcast)

[AnnieSummerlee]

Re length. Well, here's my 2 crumbs of biscuits worth.

I don't think length matters all that much, although I too prefer short pods. Folk listen to Joe R's endless rant because of him, his character, his guests and the name he's built. And they listen to Steven K for 30 mins because of who he is. He could talk ten hours and his fans would tune in. In short, it's about having a following.

For us mere mortals: People will listen to any length if its engaging. It's about content. And about standing out against others in your genre. Being different.

When Jonny and myself started Green Cows Don't Fly (if that isnt a bit mad I don't know what is) season 1 quickly had 2k unique listeners and growing. We're now starting season 3. Our episodes are around 30 mins. The 30 mins happened organically because of what we do (it's not easy to shut Jonny up, I tell you ) but we also want to keep them shorter cos it's a lot of work to do longer episodes. The effort of it all is something you might want to keep in mind.

You have picked a busy genre with many similar others, all calling out to be heard. And as someone already said, in general everyone has a pod. Monetising is near impossible unless you can get the following ... So do it for the enjoyment of it for now. Don't fret about the length. Just do what you do. Watch the stats to see how you're doing and adapt what you do if you need.

Concentrate on building a following. Obs social media etc. But another good way of doing that is to be supportive of others' podcasts. That is something Jon and I naturally did from he start cos that's who we are (as you know Jonny is the chatty, social, friendly type). We made connections. We received, and still do, lots of support back. Just get yourselves into the pod world. It is a friendly and helpful community. Ignore the unsupporive ones. (Only on one or two occasions did we have folk being unsupportive. There's always one or two who tries to drown you. They don't matter. Everyone else out there will be right behind you.) Remember those who did support you and make a connection with them. It'll pay off. It's a lovely pod community out there which you can learn from. We help each other grow. And you might get invited to guest on theirs.

It's a hec of a lot of work.

But fun.

Re the washing up. That's what I have a husband for. Surely, that's the whole point of having one ...?
.

Great insights Barbara, thank you so much. It is a busy genre, but for now we're doing it for fun! I've always been a passive listener (I never leave comments or anything like that) so I guess I should try to be a bit more active. We're recording our next episode soon (uploading every 2 weeks), so I think we'll get a sense of how long it'll be. I might even split some episodes into parts if we chat too long haha

 

[Eva Ulian]

The longest podcast episode Stephen King has done, to date, is three hours 30 minutes. His podcast also has several two hours plus episodes and lots of one hour takes. Podcasts are all over the place but one hour plus is pretty common among the people I worked with who did them.
You are on to something with the podcast to wash up to, though. Find the perfect podcast for washing up and you could seriously monetize that

To a one hour or three hour podcast by Stephen King, which I don't think are the norm, there are dozens and dozens of 10 mins, 20mins or 30 mins, and they are the most popular. I think Stephen King has a lot of regard for us poor mortals who have not the time, the will or the energy to go beyond a 20mins attention span. Long podcasts, like everything long, easily leads to meandering and boredom. @Barbara and @Jonny were on the right track with their five-minute story pod-cast... BTW What has happened to them?

 

[Barbara]

@Barbara and @Jonny were on the right track with their five-minute story pod-cast... BTW What has happened to them?

It was still a 15 to 30 minute show though. 5 mins per story. We stopped doing it because it wasn't sustainable. We didn't get enough quality submissions to continue on a weekly basis, long term.

 

[Eva Ulian]

Don't get carried away. I love podcasts but everybody has one. I don't say this to dampen anybody's spirits by any means but rather to temper expectations. Monetizing a podcast isn't easy beans. Off the top of my head I know four people who have one and that's just a straight up podcast - if you count streaming via youtube as a podcast it's even more.

Hannah you underestimate how many people are working for themselves now and want something on in the background! I have podcasts or shows on while I paint and my husband hasn't gone back to work in the office since Covid. He codes from home and mostly has music on but sometimes will have a podcast on. My best friend locally works remotely as an accountant and has stuff on in the background too.

I used to listen to music or short stories while painting and then somewhere along the line, not conscious when it happens, I had no idea what was or had been said because I had been absorbed by something else- that's why I prefer to do the washing-up (I haven't got a husband like @Barbara), as that doesn't require much mental attention.

 

[Barbara]

(I haven't got a husband like @Barbara)

The washing up is his only redeeming feature. I do the rest of the housework.

Oh, he does the ironing. But I do the rest of the housework.

Oh, and he mows the lawn. But I do the rest of the housework.

 

[Eva Ulian]

It was still a 30 minute show though

I guess it seemed so short because every five minutes or so you had a different story- it was the surprise or anticipation that continued to sustain my, and I expect everyone else's attention.

 

[MattScho]

To a one hour or three hour podcast by Stephen King, which I don't think are the norm, there are dozens and dozens of 10 mins, 20mins or 30 mins, and they are the most popular. I think Stephen King has a lot of regard for us poor mortals who have not the time, the will or the energy to go beyond a 20mins attention span. Long podcasts, like everything long, easily leads to meandering and boredom. @Barbara and @Jonny were on the right track with their five-minute story pod-cast... BTW What has happened to them?

Everyone has their preferences and, of course, everyone for their tastes is correct.
But I am not so sure about the most popular. The problem with a 5-10 minute, or even 15 minute podcast is that it's difficult to monetize. Podcasts tend to make their money through grants, merch or ad sales. Neither arts commissions/foundations nor advertisers have a lot of experience with 5 minute products, so tend to shy away.
Short-ish can work. The Daily does a great job in providing a news summary, right about half an hour a show, has the largest audience of any English language podcast and makes quite a bit of money. the idea was to cover an average commute to work.
a couple close friends of mine are also in that space, though they run to 45 to 60 minutes, and generate enough income to be full time jobs for them. I do have a couple friends who tried to make the 15 minute news podcast work, and while they passed what was in 2017 the magic 8,000 subscriber bar (allowing them to move from auto generated ads to direct ad sales) they didn't really catch fire enough to make it worthwhile to keep at it.
Stephen King did his Strawberry Spring podcasts, which are kind of in this space as they focus on short stories, at about the same length, 20 to 30 minutes. but The Loser's Club is a bigger hit for him, not that he needs it, and those are up to three and half hour long episodes.
The true crime things, Morbid, Serial, Crime Junkie, are wildly popular, several among the most popular titles list, are all more than an 45 minutes to an 1 hour 30 minutes. I'm helping a guy on an episode for one of these things right now (on the cannibals I've written about in the past), and it's expected to come in at an hour plus.
the very popular conspiracy crowd podcasts, as have been referenced, tend to be longer as well, though they should be shortened to the point of not existing.

 

[ChantalS]

I listen to a lot of true crime (all the ones Matt listed and many, many more) and they will cut off at the one hour mark to turn into a two part episode. I also listen to writing podcasts which will do the same - often the writing pods will cut closer to the 45 minute mark.

I really think it comes down to building a following then checking your stats. Two things I hate doing which is why I would never be successful at it, lol!

 

[Eva Ulian]

I agree, one can listen to an hour plus pod-cast and I have done so - but it had better be good!

 

[MattScho]

I agree, one can listen to an hour plus pod-cast and I have done so - but it had better be good!

There's an old newsroom saying, "Readers hate long, boring stories." This was the newsroom way of limiting the length of stories. My counter to this was always that readers also hate short, boring stories. it's not the length that's the problem, it's the boring. I won't listen to a 60 second podcast that doesn't interest or bores me. I will listen to three hours if I'm fascinated.

 

[ChantalS]

There's an old newsroom saying, "Readers hate long, boring stories." This was the newsroom way of limiting the length of stories. My counter to this was always that readers also hate short, boring stories. it's not the length that's the problem, it's the boring. I won't listen to a 60 second podcast that doesn't interest or bores me. I will listen to three hours if I'm fascinated.

In general I hate two part podcasts because I'm impatient. It's not the fact that it's a long story, it's the fact that they are making me wait. If it's good I'll happily sit there and binge the next part. If it sucks I will have turned it off way before the one hour mark.

Canadian True Crime recently did a five part series on Jacob Hoggard, the last two parts were 90 minutes each. The first three parts were all just over an hour. I waited until all the parts came out then binged it in two days. I knew about the case but she did such a great job with interviews and piecing it all together and really going in deep that the time flew by. It all happened after I left Canada so I didn't know the story that well - I was fascinated. I absolutely second what Matt is saying. It's not the length that is the issue, it's the subject and how it is presented.

 

[Eva Ulian]

I think Bev would be more suitable to asking the questions and Annie the answers since she has a succinct approach.

 

[Vagabond Heart]

I think Bev would be more suitable to asking the questions and Annie the answers since she has a succinct approach.

Eva, I'll do whatever Annie tells me to do. xxx

 

[Hannah F]

I think Bev would be more suitable to asking the questions and Annie the answers since she has a succinct approach.

Or maybe change about for different weeks? It'll add variety.

 

[Eva Ulian]

Or maybe change about for different weeks? It'll add variety.

Yes, that way they can learn from each other.

 

[Eva Ulian]

Eva, I'll do whatever Annie tells me to do. xxx

Is that wise?

 

[Hannah F]

And some people read books all in one go. I can't do that either. That's why I like chapters.

 

[Vagabond Heart]

Is that wise?

Yup. She's the boss of me and I'm quite happy that way.

 

[Eva Ulian]

Yup. She's the boss of me and I'm quite happy that way.

Well, I think you should let Annie do the answers sometimes and you will note how differently she goes about the subject.

 

[ChantalS]

I've found I'm more into audiobooks as I'm getting older. I don't know if my eyesight is getting worse or it's an attention span thing or what. It's easier to block out my 12 year old yammering on about Minecraft or his latest obsession which is naming African regions over and over (why? WHY???) when I have headphones on than when I'm trying to read and block out his noise.

 

[ChantalS]

I've found I'm more into audiobooks as I'm getting older. I don't know if my eyesight is getting worse or it's an attention span thing or what. It's easier to block out my 12 year old yammering on about Minecraft or his latest obsession which is naming African regions over and over (why? WHY???) when I have headphones on than when I'm trying to read and block out his noise.

Sorry - my point was that with audiobooks chapters are almost irrelevant.

 

[Eva Ulian]

I've found I'm more into audiobooks as I'm getting older.

Me too. But I think it's because it takes more effort and consequently more energy to use your eyes than ears. Let's face it, it's also far more convenient to turn on a switch and move about or whatever while listening than to sit still and "focus" your eyes on something. Listening allows you and gives you a sense of having far more freedom.

 

[Barbara]

She's the boss of me and I'm quite happy that way.

GASP. That means she might get you to do her washing up.

 

[Vagabond Heart]

Well, I think you should let Annie do the answers sometimes and you will note how differently she goes about the subject.

I neither ‘let’ her do things or ‘stop’ her, Eva. She’s in charge. And yes, I would hope we do have different styles and opinions - that’s why it’s so nice working with her. I’m guessing from your comments that you rate her as highly as I do. That’s great. Xxx

 

[Eva Ulian]

I neither ‘let’ her do things or ‘stop’ her, Eva. She’s in charge. And yes, I would hope we do have different styles and opinions - that’s why it’s so nice working with her. I’m guessing from your comments that you rate her as highly as I do. That’s great. Xxx

It's your pod-cast - I don't want to seem as if I'm interfering - but since the question is up for discussion I thought I'd be able to help you improve it.

 

[Hannah F]

I've found I'm more into audiobooks as I'm getting older. I don't know if my eyesight is getting worse or it's an attention span thing or what. It's easier to block out my 12 year old yammering on about Minecraft or his latest obsession which is naming African regions over and over (why? WHY???) when I have headphones on than when I'm trying to read and block out his noise.

My eyes are better than my ears. Audiobooks I find very difficult. Either I can't make out what the narrator is saying or I can but they send me to sleep no matter how good they are. Podcasts have the same effect (and mother conversations on the phone!). I just can't concentrate on only listening for long.
I'm most often on the move - out in the open air. Then I like listening to birdsong, the gurgle or swoosh of the river, the secrets rustling between the trees, conversations with a friend or client if I'm walking with a friend or client, the paw-pads of my dog. When I'm at home, I do housework in very short bursts - breaks between writing slots or doing accounts slots or budgeting slots or writing to friends I don't get to see much. I'm just the wrong person to advertise a 1+ hour podcast/audiobook to.

 

[Vagabond Heart]

My eyes are better than my ears. Audiobooks I find very difficult. Either I can't make out what the narrator is saying or I can but they send me to sleep no matter how good they are. Podcasts have the same effect (and mother conversations on the phone!). I just can't concentrate on only listening for long.
I'm most often on the move - out in the open air. Then I like listening to birdsong, the gurgle or swoosh of the river, the secrets rustling between the trees, conversations with a friend or client if I'm walking with a friend or client, the paw-pads of my dog. When I'm at home, I do housework in very short bursts - breaks between writing slots or doing accounts slots or budgeting slots or writing to friends I don't get to see much. I'm just the wrong person to advertise a 1+ hour podcast/audiobook to.

Lol, I use podcasts and audio books to help me get to sleep, so I reckon we tick at least one box for you there, Hannah. xxx

 

[ChantalS]

My eyes are better than my ears. Audiobooks I find very difficult. Either I can't make out what the narrator is saying or I can but they send me to sleep no matter how good they are. Podcasts have the same effect (and mother conversations on the phone!). I just can't concentrate on only listening for long.
I'm most often on the move - out in the open air. Then I like listening to birdsong, the gurgle or swoosh of the river, the secrets rustling between the trees, conversations with a friend or client if I'm walking with a friend or client, the paw-pads of my dog. When I'm at home, I do housework in very short bursts - breaks between writing slots or doing accounts slots or budgeting slots or writing to friends I don't get to see much. I'm just the wrong person to advertise a 1+ hour podcast/audiobook to.

My ears are better than my eyes right now. I need bifocals but my optometrist keeps telling me to wait until my eyes settle down, they are changing too rapidly. Oh the joys of being in my mid forties! My oldest has two pet birds and when they go off on a tear you can hear them all through the house. We aren't far from the high school either where there is some sort of barn or something - I regularly hear cows from the agricultural program and last year someone was walking a goat through our suburban neighborhood. I grew up in a farm town so none of this really phases me, but my city slicker husband was pretty stunned and tbh I'm ok with putting on some headphones and drowning the noise out now that I'm an olds, as my youngest would say.

 

[Peyton Stafford]

Hi Peyton,
It should be out by now, but let me know if you can't find it!

It's there. Looking forward to listening!

 

[Hannah F]

My ears are better than my eyes right now. I need bifocals but my optometrist keeps telling me to wait until my eyes settle down, they are changing too rapidly. Oh the joys of being in my mid forties! My oldest has two pet birds and when they go off on a tear you can hear them all through the house. We aren't far from the high school either where there is some sort of barn or something - I regularly hear cows from the agricultural program and last year someone was walking a goat through our suburban neighborhood. I grew up in a farm town so none of this really phases me, but my city slicker husband was pretty stunned and tbh I'm ok with putting on some headphones and drowning the noise out now that I'm an olds, as my youngest would say.

Mid-forties? A babe, Chantal. You're a mere babe. 90 is olds.