Rules For Submitting To Agents

[Carol Rose]

Came across this on Facebook today and thought it might help. Nothing earth-shattering that I haven't seen before, but that doesn't mean it isn't new to someone on here.

http://relentlesswriters.blogspot.com/2015/06/reasons-for-rules-agents-perspective.html

 

[Jennifer Stone]

Maybe this is the place for this...
https://www.writersandartists.co.uk/writers/advice/831/a-writers-toolkit/essential-information/

 

[1408]

I'm planning on submitting again in the next few months so this is a nice refresh, thanks! Does anyone know the rule on resubmitting to an agent? The majority of my submissions were in October last year through to the start of January. I've hacked a lot from the book taking its word count down massively and I've completely rewritten chapters. It's not a major deal because I only submitted to ten, but I'm curious what the general rule is if it isn't mentioned on the agency website.

 

[Jason Byrne]

Great advice, all around. definitely worth a read-through.

I'm double the standard word count for historical fiction/fantasy. I'm just going to have a really damn hard time.

 

[Jennifer Stone]

I'm planning on submitting again in the next few months so this is a nice refresh, thanks! Does anyone know the rule on resubmitting to an agent? The majority of my submissions were in October last year through to the start of January. I've hacked a lot from the book taking its word count down massively and I've completely rewritten chapters. It's not a major deal because I only submitted to ten, but I'm curious what the general rule is if it isn't mentioned on the agency website.

Personally I'd send a query email first. 'Hi, i submitted to you last year. Would you like another look at my revised and edited manuscript?' Or something along those lines.
I've seen a couple that say not to resubmit for at least six months after rejection, but if they don't specify, it cant hurt to ask.

 

[David Steele]

From what I can understand, the UK we have 'submissions'. which are brief letters with 3 chapters and a synopsis as attachments.
In the USA we have 'query letters', which usually are much longer emails with just a few pages of manuscript pasted below. Is that about how everyone else finds it? I'm generalising, of course.

When we have houses, I think we'd all benefit from a workshop with examples of 'good' versions of query letters and submissions.

 

[Emurelda]

When we have houses, I think we'd all benefit from a workshop with examples of 'good' versions of query letters and submissions.

I spotted these successful query letter page a few months ago. Maybe useful? It's US bias.

http://www.writersdigest.com/editor-blogs/guide-to-literary-agents/successful-queries

 

[Jason Byrne]

This is very useful — industry explanation of what has worked, and why.

 

[Emurelda]

This is very useful — industry explanation of what has worked, and why.

They are very useful...put me off as I felt a little inadequate reading such amazing queries. I researched a bit and found some agents use the actual blurb from the letter itself..that's right - they're that good.

 

[Emurelda]

From what I can understand, the UK we have 'submissions'. which are brief letters with 3 chapters and a synopsis as attachments.
In the USA we have 'query letters', which usually are much longer emails with just a few pages of manuscript pasted below. Is that about how everyone else finds it? I'm generalising, of course.

Yes I do find that but with the US only a query letter is requested. However, it is recommended NOT to send just a query letter in the case of US agents but the whole MS. [According to my adopted literary teacher (virtual) Michael Levin.]

 

[Jason Byrne]

I've only encountered one request for the full MS, and that was for the publisher submission I made. I've seen a lot of agent requests for first chapter, or first 30-50 pages. Some say query letter only; some request first 5-10 pages. Generally a toss-up regarding request for synopsis.

I found the agents composing nearly all of my submissions on AgentQuery — including Redhammer Management, and ultimately Litopia! The website gives the contact information and company website of each agent, filtered by genre, whether they currently accept submissions, etc.

 

[Emurelda]

I've only encountered one request for the full MS, and that was for the publisher submission I made. I've seen a lot of agent requests for first chapter, or first 30-50 pages. Some say query letter only; some request first 5-10 pages. Generally a toss-up regarding request for synopsis.

I found the agents composing nearly all of my submissions on AgentQuery — including Redhammer Management, and ultimately Litopia! The website gives the contact information and company website of each agent, filtered by genre, whether they currently accept submissions, etc.

I use this one for research:

UK Literary Agents

And this one for the hardcopy scribbles:

Writers' and Artists' Yearbook

{I love this one they have the children's version too!! Which I discovered through tears of joy....}

Children's Writers' and Artists' Yearbook

 

[Jason Byrne]

I spotted these successful query letter page a few months ago. Maybe useful? It's US bias.

http://www.writersdigest.com/editor-blogs/guide-to-literary-agents/successful-queries

I'm about halfway through these letters now, and highly recommend opening your own agent letter beside them, and adapting from the strongest points that you find you lack.

 

[Karen Gray]

Great advice, all around. definitely worth a read-through.

I'm double the standard word count for historical fiction/fantasy. I'm just going to have a really damn hard time.

You could always do a part 1 and part 2 or write a smaller prequel or something if you want to hit the word target, but look at George, double R Martin. His books are at least 200,000. If he can get it done, so can you... It may just take a while.

 

[1408]

@Jennifer Stone Thanks! That's what I was thinking about doing and I think it might be the best approach.

The thing with GRRM is that he was already a published writer when he wrote Game of Thrones. I think it was also in a time when a book wasn't considered too long at 50k. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely hate that a book has to be chopped up to fit in a bracket for "recommended word count" and I like seeing where people break the rules and get an agent/publisher (I think Patrick Rothfuss did this - TNoTW is a whopping 259k). But if you're getting attention from agents (requests for full or partial) anyway, @Jason Byrne, then I think you're doing something right regardless!

I'm in two minds whether I want to even approach agents with my new and improved (!!...) shorter version of my book, or whether to just put it online in it's lengthier form and let the vultures at it (do not engage). At the same time, with so many distractions for our targeted audience, I understand why agents are warning us about wordcount. It's a sticky situation I often like to give two fingers.

 

[Emurelda]

@Jennifer Stone Thanks! That's what I was thinking about doing and I think it might be the best approach.

The thing with GRRM is that he was already a published writer when he wrote Game of Thrones. I think it was also in a time when a book wasn't considered too long at 50k. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely hate that a book has to be chopped up to fit in a bracket for "recommended word count" and I like seeing where people break the rules and get an agent/publisher (I think Patrick Rothfuss did this - TNoTW is a whopping 259k). But if you're getting attention from agents (requests for full or partial) anyway, @Jason Byrne, then I think you're doing something right regardless!

I'm in two minds whether I want to even approach agents with my new and improved (!!...) shorter version of my book, or whether to just put it online in it's lengthier form and let the vultures at it (do not engage). At the same time, with so many distractions for our targeted audience, I understand why agents are warning us about wordcount. It's a sticky situation I often like to give two fingers.

Go on give it a gong you never know.

 

[Jason Byrne]

You could always do a part 1 and part 2 or write a smaller prequel or something if you want to hit the word target, but look at George, double R Martin. His books are at least 200,000. If he can get it done, so can you... It may just take a while.

As it happens, Books 1 and 2 were broken up from one original 'superstory' that would have run about 507k. Breaking a story in half ex post facto sounds dangerous at best, but a prequel is intriguing...

If you write fantasy, you'll always be "like George RRM." Before that it was Tolkein. Just like people presume every romance novel ever written is "like Danielle Steel" or every horror novel "like Stephen King."

George had almost twenty-five years as a published author of sci-fi novels, and as a tv writer for CBS/ABC, before they took a chance on him with the 298k word Game of Thrones, back in '96.

My stuff is closer to the fantasy-romance of Terry Goodkind's Sword of Truth series, meets Colleen McCullough's historical fiction Masters of Rome, which luckily are both up in the 300k+ range. Goodkind's first-ever published book, Wizard's First Rule, was auctioned to a group of three publishers for $275,000. But that's one guy. How many other Terry Goodkinds are out there, now, clawing for the other available seat?

 

[Emurelda]

Don't agents recommend people not to begin with an epic novel series for first time writers.

From what i have read this rule is first one to go .

 

[Karen Gray]

Don't agents recommend people not to begin with an epic novel series for first time writers.

From what i have read this rule is first one to go .

That's what I heard too.

 

[Katie-Ellen]

So as not to frighten the horses, why can't a standalone first novel form the basis of a potential series, with the ending designed for that possibility?

 

[1408]

Yeah, I think they're good to see things in the cover letter like "with series potential" but from what I've read when pitching to them you're supposed to pitch the first book, not all of them at once. I guess because ultimately the first book should be a story of it's own and not rely on your audience reading all of the books to be satisfied. Especially when if the sales for the first are low I doubt they'd print an entire series. Also, if all us series writers were to send pitches for an entire series they'd probably end up with novel sized queries in their inbox!

I think Karen might have some experience with this. @Karen Gray if I remember correctly, didn't you pitch book 2 of your series in last years pitmad and get a request? What did the agent say about it being book 2 in a series and not 1? Did they care?

 

[Katie-Ellen]

Missed you lately, 1408. Love the ferret.

 

[Karen Gray]

I think Karen might have some experience with this. @Karen Gray if I remember correctly, didn't you pitch book 2 of your series in last years pitmad and get a request? What did the agent say about it being book 2 in a series and not 1? Did they care?

I did. It ended up being the exact same tweet picked up this time too! Keeping it for #sffpit in a fortnight.

They liked it but it wasn't for them at the time. Didn't mention about it being book 2 in the series and said they felt it was a strong contender to be picked up by an agent, but not her at that time.

 

[Jason Byrne]

Don't agents recommend people not to begin with an epic novel series for first time writers.

From what i have read this rule is first one to go .

Makes sense. To use my earlier example, George RR Martin went to his guys and said "I've been doing this for twenty years, and want to go bigger," and they were like "okay."

On the other hand, the story determines its own length. The last thing you want to do is pad it, but not doing it due justice seems equally a disservice. Mine isn't really even epic... there's one primary character, one major supporting character, and one or two incidentals that make repeat appearances. It's not about the fate of nations... just the fate of a man and a woman, and his inexperience in being a man. There just happens to be magic too.

That said... I was leaning heavily on it being a "series that will bring you money five times instead of just one!" Maybe I should leave that behind, and focus on the book I'm trying to publish on its own merits. Or even think about a simpler prequel. The Lord of the Rings started with a children's book called The Hobbit, after all, so it obviously works pretty well... My wife pitched me the idea of doing a prequel years ago, and I dismissed it.

Alright. I begrudgingly capitulate.

 

[Emurelda]

There is much to ponder over here. It has opened my eyes. Whilst i have been writing a series of books their origins come from a series of card games. So each book compliments a card game. As with all of us we won't know if it will work until it's done. But the issue of keeping at least the first standalone is fundamental for first time authors.

I remember reading books 1, 2, and 3 of the Harry Potter series and loved them because they were standalone. Each had a flavour that i wanted to keep trying because i like the unique storytelling. Then the flavour and formula changed for me as a reader. It was also good but definitely tasted different..hmm ...I must be peckish... Excuse me.

 

[Jason Byrne]

There is much to ponder over here. It has opened my eyes. Whilst i have been writing a series of books their origins come from a series of card games. So each book compliments a card game. As with all of us we won't know if it will work until it's done. But the issue of keeping at least the first standalone is fundamental for first time authors.

I remember reading books 1, 2, and 3 of the Harry Potter series and loved them because they were standalone. Each had a flavour that i wanted to keep trying because i like the unique storytelling. Then the flavour and formula changed for me as a reader. It was also good but definitely tasted different..hmm ...I must be peckish... Excuse me.

I think a successful series with an overarching story does have a very different flavor to each subsection — contrast that against commercialized series, with innumerable single one-offs all with exactly the same flavor.

Oh yeah — you're five hours ahead; it's three in the afternoon, there. I was about to say "enjoy your brunch!"

 

[Karen Gray]

I think a successful series with an overarching story does have a very different flavor to each subsection — contrast that against commercialized series, with innumerable single one-offs all with exactly the same flavor.

Oh yeah — you're five hours ahead; it's three in the afternoon, there. I was about to say "enjoy your brunch!"

I think that's why series with a large cast work well because you can vary the focus to keep the attention of the reader.

 

[Jennifer Stone]

There is much to ponder over here. It has opened my eyes. Whilst i have been writing a series of books their origins come from a series of card games. So each book compliments a card game. As with all of us we won't know if it will work until it's done. But the issue of keeping at least the first standalone is fundamental for first time authors.

Back in my geekier days, oh around seven years ago, I was introduced to a card game titled 'Magic; the Gathering' if you've heard of them. Each set of cards released focused around a specific theme or place, ie. Morrowind was all cutesy elves, mermaids and pixies, while the older Kamigawa set is based on Japanese rodents and demons. The old sets I collected had a book that came with a box set of the playing cards, providing backstory to the 'planeswalkers' characters, who can move between these different realms, and their journeys. I don't think they continue the books now, but their audience is late teens to adults, not children. The card game is still going strong, though.
Google 'Wizards of the Coast', the company that create it. It couldn't hurt to send an email, unless you already have and they said 'no chance.'

 

[Jason Byrne]

I think that's why series with a large cast work well because you can vary the focus to keep the attention of the reader.

I addition to things like varied plot, locale, theme, etc.

 

[Jason Byrne]

Back in my geekier days, oh around seven years ago, I was introduced to a card game titled 'Magic; the Gathering' if you've heard of them. Each set of cards released focused around a specific theme or place, ie. Morrowind was all cutesy elves, mermaids and pixies, while the older Kamigawa set is based on Japanese rodents and demons. The old sets I collected had a book that came with a box set of the playing cards, providing backstory to the 'planeswalkers' characters, who can move between these different realms, and their journeys. I don't think they continue the books now, but their audience is late teens to adults, not children. The card game is still going strong, though.
Google 'Wizards of the Coast', the company that create it. It couldn't hurt to send an email, unless you already have and they said 'no chance.'

Former GURPS nerd, here — Similar to Dungeons and Dragons.

Actually, three of the "role playing game" arcs I transcribed, fleshed out, and adapted into novels! They were provisionally-titled "Survival Horror Story," "Magic Story," and "Epic Story" respectively.