MAJOR UPDATES SUMMARY

[AgentPete]

I can only speak for myself, but my MS isn't ready yet, otherwise, I would have been interested. It normally takes a massive effort to complete a book with ten fingers, with 1-3 fingers (on non-dominant hand) it's extra slow. I think it a grand idea, but not being able to talk also kinda kills the show too, lol!

I don’t want to jump too soon on this, i.e. I really do want to get the new structure technically tied down and functioning well. But at some point, I would like to see how we might return to looking at the totality of a submission. Open for ideas.

There are several points-of-ethos that might be helpful, here goes -

* writers are regularly ripped off / offered poor value by a wide range of commercial propositions, from creative writing courses to manuscript review/ editing / critiquing services. I want to stand apart from this, i.e. offer extraordinary value.

* Concurrently, the commodification and commercialisation of writing skills is actually disempowering. Writing is like starting a revolution – no-one can give you the power to write, it has to be seized by confronting the barrel of a pen Ultimately, only you can teach yourself how to write.

* The more you put into a community such as this, the more you will get out of it. Critiquing someone else’s work doesn’t just benefit them, it hugely empowers you, too.

 

[NAudley]

Critiquing someone else’s work doesn’t just benefit them, it hugely empowers you, too.

I really love the idea of this, and couldn't agree more on the truth of this.

Also hello! I am new to Litopia

 

[RK Wallis]

Welcome NAudley Probably best to start your own intro thread in cafe life

 

[georginaK]

Three cheers for the simplified Membership Structure! Thank you for all you do, @AgentPete. There truly is nothing like Litopia out there for writers. I hope others realize that. So much here to take advantage of.

I'm sad that the Submission Surgery was not better utilized. I was the first one to use it, and I found it immensely helpful. Where else can you get a one-on-one for ninety minutes with an agent??? No place I know of, that's for sure.

Yes—I was looking forward to submitting my work for submissions surgery after it went through pop up submissions and I’d had a chance to apply feedback to my MS before submitting.
*Also—Litopia is my favorite writing group! Everyone is so welcoming, encouraging, and talented! Thanks Agent Pete and everyone else who is part of this outstanding group!

 

[georginaK]

I don’t quite understand why it wasn’t more popular, either.

I assumed there would be an even bigger back log than for pop ups! Submission Surgery was the reason I joined Litopia in the first place (I did, however, find lots of other reasons to stay)

 

[KateESal]

Just upgraded.
I'm planning to splash out on a Pop-up queue-jump once I'm back home (on holiday at the moment, so my viewing of POS is somewhat eratic...)

@AgentPete I'm genuinely curious to know how often you've taken on authors discovered via POS. Has it ever happened? Any success stories for authors as a direct result of their work's appearance on Pop-up Subs, even if you declined? @Carol Rose , you say you became a published author as a result of your involvement with Litopia. How so?

 

[Deleted member 604]

@georginaK, Ditto I love the Writing Group and I love giving back in there. So, any chance I get I do some Critiques with the little time I have to get on here these days.

 

[AgentPete]

Just upgraded.
I'm planning to splash out on a Pop-up queue-jump once I'm back home (on holiday at the moment, so my viewing of POS is somewhat eratic...)

@AgentPete I'm genuinely curious to know how often you've taken on authors discovered via POS. Has it ever happened? Any success stories for authors as a direct result of their work's appearance on Pop-up Subs, even if you declined? @Carol Rose , you say you became a published author as a result of your involvement with Litopia. How so?

I’ve called in several submissions. There’s one submission at the moment that I’m “assisting” with, i.e. I may not take on as a client but may place with a publisher, if that doesn’t sound too strange.

It’s partly a numbers game – at only 5 submissions per show, that’s a maximum of only 200-odd per year, and realistically the hit rate is more like one in 5-10k, not 1 in 200.

My aim isn’t really that, though. If we can help give an early steer to projects, then that’s satisfying enough.

 

[KateESal]

I’ve called in several submissions. There’s one submission at the moment that I’m “assisting” with, i.e. I may not take on as a client but may place with a publisher, if that doesn’t sound too strange.

I just want to make it clear that I'll only be a bit disappointed if you place my submission with a publisher, despite not taking me on as a client.

t’s partly a numbers game – at only 5 submissions per show, that’s a maximum of only 200-odd per year, and realistically the hit rate is more like one in 5-10k, not 1 in 200.

Woah...that's the first time I've seen it put into numbers like that. Sobering.

My aim isn’t really that, though. If we can help give an early steer to projects, then that’s satisfying enough.

Aw, bless! Thanks for the time and effort you give, Pete: it's hugely appreciated.

 

[Carol Rose]

@Carol Rose , you say you became a published author as a result of your involvement with Litopia. How so?

My Evernight editors were former members here. I posted a short erotic horror story as part of a contest one of the editors had, and she loved it. She approached me about expanding it and turning it into a romance for Evernight. That story became The Last Soul - Seduced by a Demon 1 - and the rest is history.

 

[Steve C]

After some thought here's my tuppence worth.
Personally, I will be upgrading early next month when my normal monthly contribution is due. However I have to say the list of benefits on the upgrade page is not the reason, I simply want to contribute to a special place and help it stay afloat. Most items on the list do not interest me and I fear they will not persuade many newcomers to upgrade.
To my mind, the real points of value that people will pay for are entry to Writing Groups, Pop Ups and Surgery. None of these are mentioned among the benefits of upgrading.
The latest changes only monetize one of these and then only partially. Making all three conditional on becoming a patron would encourage more to upgrade. It may also help with the queue for Pop Ups.
I understand that Surgery was hardly used but many members including myself had it as a target. It takes longer to write a 100k word novel than a 700 word sample. Even if not used much I don't think it would be expensive to keep it as an option on the site. It too should be for members only and monetized. Even at $100 it would be a bargain.

 

[KateESal]

I understand that Surgery was hardly used but many members including myself had it as a target. It takes longer to write a 100k word novel than a 700 word sample. Even if not used much I don't think it would be expensive to keep it as an option on the site. It too should be for members only and monetized. Even at $100 it would be a bargain.

How about a Pop-up Surgery? Instead of it being a regular thing, @AgentPete swoops in once in a while (when he's got the time!) to offer it as a special. Paid, perhaps, or as a prize to members, or members throw their names into the hat and we have a lottery.
Just a thought.

 

[Steve C]

Lots of ways to do it. Maybe do a condensed version to prepare for submitting to agents. Blurb + synopsis + 10,000 words. Take less of Pete's time to read and help get the authors pitch to agents as good as possible. Once it became known on the net that sort of service could be very popular.

 

[AgentPete]

After some thought here's my tuppence worth.
Personally, I will be upgrading early next month when my normal monthly contribution is due. However I have to say the list of benefits on the upgrade page is not the reason, I simply want to contribute to a special place and help it stay afloat. Most items on the list do not interest me and I fear they will not persuade many newcomers to upgrade.

Thanks for these considered points, Steve.

It’s quite difficult trying to judge where the perceived value lies. What we’ve done previously is to make access to the areas you’ve described (Submission Surgery, Writing Groups) conditional upon upgrading. However, this keeps both those areas fairly empty. It also stops folk from experiencing them first hand (a try-before-you-buy system might work, but isn’t easy to program into the existing software).

The idea now is to let newcomers experience / participate in most of Litopia, including the Writing Groups, with a view to making Litopia their writing home on the web. Once ensconced, we will repeatedly encourage them to upgrade to become a supporting member. I think there is a growing understanding that nothing on the web is free: you either directly pay for it (e.g. here) or let shady organisations pilfer your private data (Google, Facebook, et al). I know which of those two options I’d prefer.

I understand that Surgery was hardly used but many members including myself had it as a target. It takes longer to write a 100k word novel than a 700 word sample. Even if not used much I don't think it would be expensive to keep it as an option on the site. It too should be for members only and monetized. Even at $100 it would be a bargain.

It will return in one form or another, I enjoyed doing it too much to let it die forever. Ideas appreciated.

 

[Steve C]

It will return in one form or another, I enjoyed doing it too much to let it die forever

Great. About another two months time would be perfect for me

 

[Deleted member 604]

Is there anyone on here that is traditional published? I need some advice.

 

[RK Wallis]

@RainbowAlix, @Leonora?

If you're stuck, I'm friends with an author who just recently trad published (he's also related to my best friend, but we didn't find that out until after his release). His agent is in the UK. I'm waiting for my Kindle preorder, that comes after the print run, so I don't know who the publisher is. And my claim to fame is, he kindly mentioned me in the Acknowledgements for helping him

 

[AgentPete]

And... there was a minor mistake that suddenly required all Patrons to activate 2-step verification before they could log in. Lasted a couple of hours, now resolved.

 

[Deleted member 604]

And... there was a minor mistake that suddenly required all Patrons to activate 2-step verification before they could log in. Lasted a couple of hours, now resolved.

I noticed @AgentPete

 

[Carol Rose]

Is there anyone on here that is traditional published? I need some advice.

I am. What do you need?

 

[Deleted member 604]

@Carol Rose, do you have an agent?

 

[Carol Rose]

@Carol Rose, do you have an agent?

No but both my publishers are traditional publishers in the sense I don't pay anything to be published and I receive royalties. That's the definition of a traditional publisher. You might want to rephrase your question, perhaps? And maybe start a new thread so we keep this one free for questions on the new updates? Thanks.

 

[Deleted member 604]

I need advice from someone who has an Agent or a a traditional book deal. But, thanks all the same @Carol Rose.

 

[Eva Ulian]

My Evernight editors were former members here. I posted a short erotic horror story as part of a contest one of the editors had, and she loved it. She approached me about expanding it and turning it into a romance for Evernight. That story became The Last Soul - Seduced by a Demon 1 - and the rest is history.

There you go Litopians, I always said, you never know who's watching... and when "coincidences" happen...

 

[Eva Ulian]

@AgentPete maybe it has never crossed the mind of some writers to do Submission Surgery- just like being a panelist or reader; some may just not have thought about it until you made an announcement inviting any Litopians who wanted to try for those duties to come forward. I certainly will never volunteer to be a reader (I know my limitations) but I did want to try being a panelist. I would never have thought of asking to do so until you made that announcement. I think if you invited writers to submit to Submission Surgery, or personalized it in some way, writers will react positively.

 

[Jackson Banks]

Just some thoughts on the Submission Surgery. When I had been told about it and went to look it up, the information thread was locked. So that may have deterred some people. I think the biggest frustration I have out there in internet land, besides the obvious rip offs, is the you pay, we give you a single page /400 word report with no further questions allowed to be asked.
I am not sure how the previous surgery went, but as a consumer, something along these lines would work. I pay an upfront fee and send first chapter/synopsis/query letter. At a date we agree on, myself (that is the buyer) and Agent Pete are able to go to a private room where Pete can discuss a brief overview of what he liked/ didn't like/offer suggestions?. Suppose its half hour, and allot some times for questions from the buyer relating to the material submitted.

I think that selling point, if possible, would bring more people in. In other words, I think you are the product Agent Pete.

 

[AgentPete]

@Jackson Banks, I've just altered the permissions so that Patrons can now see past submissions. I agree with you about 400 words of tosh!

 

[Steve C]

Just some thoughts on the Submission Surgery. When I had been told about it and went to look it up, the information thread was locked. So that may have deterred some people. I think the biggest frustration I have out there in internet land, besides the obvious rip offs, is the you pay, we give you a single page /400 word report with no further questions allowed to be asked.
I am not sure how the previous surgery went, but as a consumer, something along these lines would work. I pay an upfront fee and send first chapter/synopsis/query letter. At a date we agree on, myself (that is the buyer) and Agent Pete are able to go to a private room where Pete can discuss a brief overview of what he liked/ didn't like/offer suggestions?. Suppose its half hour, and allot some times for questions from the buyer relating to the material submitted.

I think that selling point, if possible, would bring more people in. In other words, I think you are the product Agent Pete.

I have been banging on about this for months. The post titled 'Why you should submit to Submission Surgery' or similar was locked!!! Not letting people see it was ting tong crazy!

 

[georginaK]

Thanks for these considered points, Steve.

It’s quite difficult trying to judge where the perceived value lies. What we’ve done previously is to make access to the areas you’ve described (Submission Surgery, Writing Groups) conditional upon upgrading. However, this keeps both those areas fairly empty. It also stops folk from experiencing them first hand (a try-before-you-buy system might work, but isn’t easy to program into the existing software).

The idea now is to let newcomers experience / participate in most of Litopia, including the Writing Groups, with a view to making Litopia their writing home on the web. Once ensconced, we will repeatedly encourage them to upgrade to become a supporting member. I think there is a growing understanding that nothing on the web is free: you either directly pay for it (e.g. here) or let shady organisations pilfer your private data (Google, Facebook, et al). I know which of those two options I’d prefer.



It will return in one form or another, I enjoyed doing it too much to let it die forever. Ideas appreciated.

So happy to here that—if I’d known submission surgery was under utilized to the point of extinction, I would have submitted way back

 

[Nikky Lee]

I can only speak for myself, but my MS isn't ready yet, otherwise, I would have been interested.

I'm in the same boat. Submission surgery was something I was considering once I'd finished my latest round of revisions. And I also needed to give myself time to save (the Pound to NZD exchange rate is killer – it's pretty much double the NZD). However, even with the exchange rate, its was still a decent deal.

Interestingly, with the new membership structure, Patron membership is virtually the same cost as a monthly Netflix subscription—and I use this site way more that I watch Netflix, so I'm happy to pay for it.