Is the 'near-miss' rejection email dead?

[E G Logan]

Based on recent experience, I am wondering if ANY agents or publishers send out three categories of reply to submissions any more.
By that I mean:
--one, wonderful 'please send the full ms';
--two, 'not quite right for us... (with, perhaps, if you are lucky) because...' i.e. 'near miss'
--three, 'sorry, I'll/we'll have to pass'. i.e. outright 'No'.

I have had one or two 'not right because' (even one 'not quite right because') but my impression is that, increasingly, replies are either Yes or No.

Am I right? And -- a bit of hurt pride aside -- does it matter anyway?

 

[Barbara]

Unless they give personalised feedback, I don't think the rejection emails matter beyond knowing it's a 'no'. It's pointless trying to read between the lines, a waste of effort, and at worst, it's soul destroying, trying to analyse their every word. We'll never know what they thought at the time unless they tell us, and even then, would they give us their honest opinion? Prob not. They don't want to offend. It's most likely a standard rejection which their intern composed. I don't think agents have the time, or even a reason to categorise their reply. Why would they? It makes no sense to them; no business sense. They either want it or they don't. It doesn't matter to them what kind of a 'no' they give. It's a no. The rest is their way of being polite.

We just need to dust ourselves off, learn from it, then get up and run again.

 

[Webbwalker]

I wish more of them would send out a simple form rejection. I have 5 on my list who've never responded to me at all (10 months and counting). Not as bad as the agent who phoned me (phoned!) to ask for the full ms, then never got back to me or responded to my email. That was harsh. I'm still trying to get over it (can you tell? )

 

[David Weller]

Not as bad as the agent who phoned me (phoned!) to ask for the full ms, then never got back to me or responded to my email. That was harsh. I'm still trying to get over it

I've had two of those. Agent #1 requested the full based on a fifteen page sample. Then she got me to increase the word count by 20K, kept me on a string for nine months and then wouldn't respond to my messages. I finally gave up and sent a query plus a fifty page sample to Agent #2. Eight weeks later her assistant requested the full and I waited patiently for them to get back to me. Six months and two polite nudges later I gave up on that agency as well. Sadly bad manners like this has become all too commonplace.

 

[Barbara]

I've had two of those. Agent #1 requested the full based on a fifteen page sample. Then she got me to increase the word count by 20K, kept me on a string for nine months and then wouldn't respond to my messages. I finally gave up and sent a query plus a fifty page sample to Agent #2. Eight weeks later her assistant requested the full and I waited patiently for them to get back to me. Six months and two polite nudges later I gave up on that agency as well. Sadly bad manners like this has become all too commonplace.

Wow. That's sooo tough. I feel for you.

On the up side, it means you're doing something right.

 

[Emily]

@Webbwalker and @David Weller , I too had an MS requested. They got back to me after a couple of months and said they were busy and would get back to me within the month... and nadda. I haven't contacted them (too busy doing far more important things), but I think it's appallingly rude. I was told by someone "in the know" that the agent who requested was "the tippy-top agent in Ireland"... yeah. The tippy-toppiest rudest one perhaps. Such bad manners. When I say I'll do something I do it, even if I'm pushed to my limits. Arghhh.

(Just makes you more determined to make it a success, hee hee)

 

[David Weller]

@Barbara @Rainbird @Webbwalker I've given up trying to understand how agents work. For example, the blurb in my query letters has become stronger over time, yet I've had just as much success with poorly constructed ones. I've also received rejections up to a year after submitting just a query letter and a rejection in just over 24 hours for a query with 3 chapters attached. Then there are the agents who promise to respond and then don't, and those who say they don't respond unless interested who send you a personalized rejection. The mind boggles.

 

[Paul Whybrow]

For the last two weeks, I've been compiling a list of agents and publishers with open submissions windows to query, which has done my ego no favours following a tedious editing marathon of my five novels. I used a list of 60 agents I queried in November 2016, checking if their submission requirements were the same, who still worked there and which agencies had closed or merged.

I dislike editing, but at least there's an appreciable end result...a more readable manuscript. Querying is worse. Of 504 submissions I've sent off in the last four years, 300 were completely ignored with no reply at all, 196 produced a form letter of rejection, and only four elicited a personalised reply—from start-up literary agencies who are still behaving politely.

I'm sure that agents are delightful company face-to-face, with their love of books, but as a profession they're the rudest I've come across...and I'm including debt collectors, police officers, traffic wardens, tax officials, didicoys offering to tarmac my driveway and members of organised crime among the more charmless souls I've met. Surely, at the very least, an agency could set up an automatic reply of rejection. I'm well aware of how inundated agencies get with submissions—one mentioned receiving 400 queries weekly—but, it would help if they said they were closed for submissions on their website, instead of just ignoring writers.

Having got all that off my chest (something tells me I'll be returning to self-publishing ), querying depends a lot on luck...getting the timing right, which is likely out of your control. Put it this way, if a well-praised manuscript about a footballer private eye has been doing the rounds, starting a bidding war, then there's more of a chance that your similar story will be snapped up. It's common for publishers and film studios to back projects that look like they were separated at birth.

 

[E G Logan]

I wish more of them would send out a simple form rejection. I have 5 on my list who've never responded to me at all (10 months and counting). Not as bad as the agent who phoned me (phoned!) to ask for the full ms, then never got back to me or responded to my email. That was harsh. I'm still trying to get over it (can you tell? )

That must have been awful -- and if you were litigious... But what would be the point?
I'm keeping a 'miss-list' of those who don't reply, so if I ever get to the point of discussing a contract, it won't be with any of them. That's other than the ones who say upfront that unless they are interested there will be no reply, because I feel at least they do warn.
Have you considered sending to four or five at once?

 

[Webbwalker]

I've had two of those. Agent #1 requested the full based on a fifteen page sample. Then she got me to increase the word count by 20K, kept me on a string for nine months and then wouldn't respond to my messages. I finally gave up and sent a query plus a fifty page sample to Agent #2. Eight weeks later her assistant requested the full and I waited patiently for them to get back to me. Six months and two polite nudges later I gave up on that agency as well. Sadly bad manners like this has become all too commonplace.

I had a similar experience with my first novel. An agent took it up, seemed very keen, invited me down for a meeting and detailed a great many changes she wanted me to make - whole chapters taken out, new chapters added, a good 40k words of rewrites, almost half the novel - which I did. Then she requested another set of quite major changes after that. All of this took the better part of 6 months. I head nothing then more for months more. After a tentative nudge, followed by silence, followed by a rather more anxious nudge, I did finally get a reply, that she'd decided it was no longer current for the market, its moment had passed and... that was that.

 

[Webbwalker]

Have you considered sending to four or five at once?

I usually send at least 6 out at a time. Some agents are still courteous. I just had a delightful, personalised critique from one agent just yesterday that left me smiling. I just sent another batch out last week. And so it goes on (and on, and on...)

 

[Andrew Okey]

@Barbara @Rainbird @Webbwalker the blurb in my query letters has become stronger over time, yet I've had just as much success with poorly constructed ones.... I've also received... a rejection in just over 24 hours for a query with 3 chapters attached...

The whole thing is totally perplexing, isn't it? Like you, I have massively improved my approach letter in recent times (helped by a couple of real novelists who very generously gave up their time to help me) and now I can also say that my novel got short-listed for the Adventures in Fiction New Voices award and yet the outcomes are getting steadily worse, the silences more total. It's like screaming into the void then straining your ears in hope of hearing some slight echo - though its often better to hear nothing, as my own record for a rejection is - 47 minutes! (though I also feel perversely proud of that one).

However, twisting my way back to the original point of this thread, I have had a couple of near-miss rejection letters which we really nice and encouraging ("much to admire" said one - I nearly proposed marriage to her on the back of that ) so there are all still courteous people out there in the industry.

 

[Emily]

Here you go! This is my brain! Bon Appetit!"

 

[Leonora]

When I sent out my first novel in 2011, it was still a case of trawling through Writers and Artists, and sending off paper copies with an SAE. Part of the reason I then gave up for a couple of years was the difficulty of finding the right agent and submitting. Sending off 500 submissions would have been impossible. But I did get nice, personal rejections that seem unthinkable now.
Now all the info is there at the click of a mouse, and we can submit with another click. Transparency, yes, and convenience for both them and us, but the ease must mean they are swamped to an impossible degree.
I don't know what the answer is. I want the convenience of the current system too, and don't want to be shut out of a world where knowing the ropes (or individuals) is the only way in. But in their attempts to reduce piles of paper, and look outward-facing, they have created a kind of monster.

 

[David Weller]

Jessica Faust of BookEnds Literary posted a fantastic video on YouTube about the ethics of responding to authors' query letters.

 

[Paul Whybrow]

I wish that all literary agents were as wise and open-hearted as Jessica Faust. With a lot of agencies, I'm made to feel like I'm a bloody nuisance for even bothering them and that I should get on my hands and knees to crawl around to the tradesman's entrance at the back of the building. I'm reminded of the situation in WW1, where the generals were miles from the front line, quaffing wine in French chateaus, issuing orders that were impossible to carry out, leading to millions of deaths...which became known as 'Lions led by donkeys.'

 

[Webbwalker]

...the ease must mean they are swamped to an impossible degree.

I'm currently trying to decide whether submitting in early December is a good time or bad. On the one hand, the end of nanowrimo means they're going to be swamped and just wanting to get through the suddenly massive slush pile before Christmas. On the other, could it be that most submissions post-November are going be so bad, that (hopefully) my sub is going to 'shine out like a shaft of gold when all around is dark'. It's a quandry and a half.

 

[Geoff]

Has anyone tried submitting two, or more, separate works to the same agent at the same time?

 

[David Weller]

Has anyone tried submitting two, or more, separate works to the same agent at the same time?

I've often seen agents state in their guidelines that authors should not do this.

 

[E G Logan]

The whole thing is totally perplexing, isn't it? Like you, I have massively improved my approach letter in recent times (helped by a couple of real novelists who very generously gave up their time to help me) and now I can also say that my novel got short-listed for the Adventures in Fiction New Voices award and yet the outcomes are getting steadily worse, the silences more total. It's like screaming into the void then straining your ears in hope of hearing some slight echo - though its often better to hear nothing, as my own record for a rejection is - 47 minutes! (though I also feel perversely proud of that one).

However, twisting my way back to the original point of this thread, I have had a couple of near-miss rejection letters which we really nice and encouraging ("much to admire" said one - I nearly proposed marriage to her on the back of that ) so there are all still courteous people out there in the industry.

Re: your own record for a rejection is - 47 minutes! -- I have to tell you I have just this very minute equalled that. And I am hopping around the kitchen kicking the furniture.

 

[E G Logan]

Has anyone tried submitting two, or more, separate works to the same agent at the same time?

I am puzzled: I have just had a rejection which suggests I should try other agents at this same (US) agency.
I thought we weren't supposed to do that, even consecutively rather than simultaneously. A lot of UK agencies specify not.
Can an agent clarify for us??

 

[Andrew Okey]

Re: your own record for a rejection is - 47 minutes! -- I have to tell you I have just this very minute equalled that. And I am hopping around the kitchen kicking the furniture.

We should form some sort of Society. Anyone else out there qualify?

 

[Andrew Okey]

I am puzzled: I have just had a rejection which suggests I should try other agents at this same (US) agency.
I thought we weren't supposed to do that, even consecutively rather than simultaneously. A lot of UK agencies specify not.
Can an agent clarify for us??

I've seen this sometimes from just one or two agencies (in their submission blurb).. if they say it's OK then I'd figure it's OK...

 

[David Weller]

I am puzzled: I have just had a rejection which suggests I should try other agents at this same (US) agency.
I thought we weren't supposed to do that, even consecutively rather than simultaneously. A lot of UK agencies specify not.

A few agencies specify on their web pages that a rejection from one agent is a rejection from all their agents. Conversely, a couple of others that I've come across take the opposite view and encourage you to submit to another if the first rejects. The overwhelming majority don't specify either way. My advice is this. Don't query more than one agent at an agency simultaneously but, unless they say otherwise, feel free to query another once it is clear the first has no interest in your work.

 

[Paul Whybrow]

As a grizzled veteran of querying, with 504 rejections, and about to return to the fray in an activity that feels like throwing paper aeroplanes out of a window in a storm, I think I've heard it all when it comes to agents' advice. (This is not something I ever wanted to happen! )

Over the last few weeks, I've been researching agents I last queried two years ago, updating information. Some have moved agencies, a couple have died, some have closed down, but 99% of their sites and submission guidelines are exactly the same. This, in itself, is a clue as to how static their websites are. If you want the latest on what an agent is searching for, become an online stalker...trace their social media posts, their tweets, Instagram account and any recent interviews they've given, including on YouTube.

Some agents say that they'll pass a query over to a colleague if they think it fits them better, but that's affected by office politics as much as working practice. As I've grumbled about before on the Colony, don't fool yourself into thinking that your immaculate submission will be perused by a discerning literary agent, for it'll more likely have passed through underlings' grubby mitts first...such as a work experience intern, an editorial assistant or a freelance reader who's working on a piece rate basis. Off-putting statistics abound with queries, but a common one is that one-tenth of 1% of submissions make it as far as a group discussion by the editorial team.

Think of the odds against you—but, don't be deterred—keep firing them off and you'll hit someone eventually. What's annoying about querying, is that the quality of your story takes a back-seat, for they're assessing the quality of your query—the synopsis, how you sell yourself in the accompanying letter, what is the elevator pitch of your story? Agents editorial assistants are looking for reasons to reject you, not to accept you.

Last night, I found one literary agent who advised a genteel approach to querying, sending off 4-5 submissions at a time spaced weeks apart. She admonished against a "carpet bombing campaign." I looked at how long she took to respond when I last queried her in November 2016...she took six months to send a form letter of rejection! Literary agents live in a rarefied atmosphere far removed from the efforts of working writers seeking acknowledgement.

Querying at Christmas adds delay. I wouldn't send off any submissions for two weeks either side of the festivities. I have queried several American agencies, but only those who specialise in my writing genre of Crime and who have British authors as clients. It's been my experience, that American agencies are swifter and more courteous in their replies.

I'm not completely against agents (all hail @AgentPete!) as I had an all-too-human demonstration of their humanity on New Year's Eve 2016. I live alone, and as I sat here trying not to feel maudlin, contemplating my literary efforts that year, a rejection email plopped into my Inbox...sent by an agent who was working as one year ended and another began.

 

[Paul Whybrow]

To increase your chances of being taken on by a literary agent, approach those just starting their own agencies. They may have several years of useful experience working for a big agency, so don't be put off by their youth.

One of the newest, who I'll be querying when she re-opens for submissions is Sinead Heneghan. Based in Manchester, she offers good advice on how to query here:

7 Tips for Submitting to a Literary Agent | Sinead Heneghan

Her enthusiasm shines through. It's typical of literary agents who work outside London, and also of Indie publishers such as Salt (Norfolk), Bluemoose (Yorkshire) and Galley Beggar Press (Norfolk)—who sometimes have open submissions opportunities.

 

[E G Logan]

I sent a very gentle chase message to Sinead-- and she left the country. No sign of return yet. Blue Moose was closed to submissions last week.
I think I'm following the same philosophy as you -- I found an online list of new US agents and I've just tried one of those.

 

[Paul Whybrow]

Perhaps we should all self-publish...every author in the country, I mean. See if that improves the attitude of haughty and non-communicative agents and book companies.

 

[Andrew Okey]

I sent a very gentle chase message to Sinead-- and she left the country. No sign of return yet. Blue Moose was closed to submissions last week.
I think I'm following the same philosophy as you -- I found an online list of new US agents and I've just tried one of those.

Sinead's website has a message about her being snowed under whilst writing all the stuff we sent to her recently...

 

[Webbwalker]

As a grizzled veteran of querying, with 504 rejections, and about to return to the fray in an activity that feels like throwing paper aeroplanes out of a window in a storm, I think I've heard it all when it comes to agents' advice...

This. Your experiences echo my own almost exactly.