Change of scene within chapter

[Mel L]

Question on formatting your MS: how do you indicate a change of time or scene within a chapter? Suggestions I've read range from simply double spacing between paragraphs, to using a symbol like #, * or ***. Searched the Craft Chat on formatting but couldn't find this specific example. Looking for best practice here!

 

[Claire G]

I leave a space but I'm interested to see what others say!

 

[CageSage]

If you leave a space/blank line and publish on KDP, the line is removed. Use the asterisks (or hash symbols) centred with a blank line before and after. At least they're universally understood to mean 'this is a break from what was before'. For physical books, the blank line may suffice.

 

[Pamela Jo]

I have to figure out how to do different colours in google doc. It would be useful for so many things. I agree a double space doesn't work well in the manuscript phase. But I haven't found anything else that is easy in google doc. Stieg Larson's of Girl with a Dragon Tattoo changes POV in the same chapter at a dizzying pace. Usually signalled by a line of asterisks. Maybe I'll experiment with a bold first word in drafts as a reminder to put in the asterisks later.

 

[Mel L]

If you leave a space/blank line and publish on KDP, the line is removed. Use the asterisks (or hash symbols) centred with a blank line before and after. At least they're universally understood to mean 'this is a break from what was before'. For physical books, the blank line may suffice.

Thank you, very helpful @CageSage !

 

[Mel L]

I have to figure out how to do different colours in google doc. It would be useful for so many things. I agree a double space doesn't work well in the manuscript phase. But I haven't found anything else that is easy in google doc. Stieg Larson's of Girl with a Dragon Tattoo changes POV in the same chapter at a dizzying pace. Usually signalled by a line of asterisks. Maybe I'll experiment with a bold first word in drafts as a reminder to put in the asterisks later.

I absolutely hate Google docs. Only use if required for client work. Advantages?

 

[Pamela Jo]

I absolutely hate Google docs. Only use if required for client work. Advantages?

It works on my Mac better than Zoho.

 

[ChantalS]

I know I read Stieg Larsen's series but it was right after I had my first baby so I remember nothing, lol. Sleep deprivation at it's finest! I always leave spaces, but I'm not gearing up for self publishing. I had no idea KDP did that.

 

[JohnBertel]

I recommend the free editor on reedsy.com. It is designed for writing books, so it knows about chapters and other features, like inserting scene breaks (!). The onscreen format is quite book-like and there are a couple of pdf export options and a word "backup" export.

 

[E G Logan]

I leave a space but I'm interested to see what others say!

Me, too, but readers often misunderstand and comment: 'do you know you've got an extra line space here?'

I put * * * at chapter endings – for me, that seems a touch too strong for a scene change within a chapter.

 

[Bloo]

I often have two scenes in a chapter. I put "*****" between them unless the transition is very easy to follow.

I use breaks like this when different scenes have some sort of relationship I don't want the reader to miss. Sometimes a new chapter can break the flow.

Another shout-out to Reedsy. The editor is simple and easily accommodates breaks within chapters.

 

[CarolMS]

It's my understanding that an extra space (no stars) indicates a slight shift in the scene, versus a larger change in time or place, or perhaps in POV, which needs to be more clearly established and signaled to readers. I suspect the rules vary on this, but that's what I've read as most advised more often than not.

 

[CarolMS]

Hmm . . . was I clear in my last post? I meant the three stars are used in the more significant changes in time, place, or POV, versus no stars if only a slight change.

 

[Bloo]

Hmm . . . was I clear in my last post? I meant the three stars are used in the more significant changes in time, place, or POV, versus no stars if only a slight change.

I got it just fine. You didn't even need any stars for me to parse it

 

[Mel L]

Hmm . . . was I clear in my last post? I meant the three stars are used in the more significant changes in time, place, or POV, versus no stars if only a slight change.

Thanks, it's much clearer with the additional comment! Until now, I have not distiguished between slight or major shifts of scenes within chapters, just leaving an extra space between paras for consistency to show there is a shift. But thinking of using asterisks for bigger shifts, especially in light of Cage's comment. Mostly I just want readers to get it!

 

[Mel L]

I often have two scenes in a chapter. I put "*****" between them unless the transition is very easy to follow.

I use breaks like this when different scenes have some sort of relationship I don't want the reader to miss. Sometimes a new chapter can break the flow.

Another shout-out to Reedsy. The editor is simple and easily accommodates breaks within chapters.

That's two votes for Reedsy. I am tempted to check it out but I already invested in Scrivener (although find it overly complex). For now I'm just using Word. Technology is a wonderful time suck.

 

[JohnBertel]

I believe that: blank line # blank line is the standard for scene breaks in the manuscript.

Then once someone (which could be the author) layout the interior design of the book, they will decide on a format of scene breaks that fits with the rest of the interior layout. It could simply be blank lines or even small symbols (heart or daggers ) instead of #. Whatever fits the interior design, which again should fit the mood of the novel.

 

[ChantalS]

Reedsy has a lot of free resources and classes. I don’t think they offer software, so they? That’s not their jam. Its worth the look over at their website.

 

[James Charles]

Question on formatting your MS: how do you indicate a change of time or scene within a chapter? Suggestions I've read range from simply double spacing between paragraphs, to using a symbol like #, * or ***. Searched the Craft Chat on formatting but couldn't find this specific example. Looking for best practice here!

I have seen it both ways: just a double space between paragraphs, and *** or similar in publised books from the major publishers.

 

[CarolMS]

I have a habit whenever such questions arise (whatever the subject and no matter how goofy) of Googling the question, I always get answers--sometimes pretty far off or far-out--or routes to answers. This one generates a whole bunch of opinions and the need to maybe fish out some concensus, or, just do what feels right to you. Of course, if you go with a traditional publisher, I trust they'll decide the formatting and you'll want to go with that.

 

[Pamela Jo]

I have a habit whenever such questions arise (whatever the subject and no matter how goofy) of Googling the question, I always get answers--sometimes pretty far off or far-out--or routes to answers. This one generates a whole bunch of opinions and the need to maybe fish out some concensus, or, just do what feels right to you. Of course, if you go with a traditional publisher, I trust they'll decide the formatting and you'll want to go with that.

I think that is the ultimate solution. My real problem is how to signify it in my drafts. Mostly how to keep track of the change in may head. I think I will start using the first word bold so that when I go back I can remember to put in asterisks.

 

[Robinne Weiss]

Question on formatting your MS: how do you indicate a change of time or scene within a chapter? Suggestions I've read range from simply double spacing between paragraphs, to using a symbol like #, * or ***. Searched the Craft Chat on formatting but couldn't find this specific example. Looking for best practice here!

In a manuscript I'm submitting to someone else for publication, I used the standard # centred on the line. But in my self-published books, I use an appropriate glyph--I either draw my own, purchase one, or use an awesome bug font I bought years ago that has actual insects and spiders for one of the font variations.

 

[Mel L]

In a manuscript I'm submitting to someone else for publication, I used the standard # centred on the line. But in my self-published books, I use an appropriate glyph--I either draw my own, purchase one, or use an awesome bug font I bought years ago that has actual insects and spiders for one of the font variations.

Agree on the #. I've decided to go with this for now as it seems to be the most widely accepted sign for a break in time or place. But I love the idea of creating your own graphics for self-pub! If I end up going this route, will definitely do this. Thanks!

 

[ChantalS]

I just read in a Facebook group - slightly different as it was about custom fonts for paragraphs, but I suppose works in light of Robinne’s comment - that an author had problems with these not loading on kindle.

 

[Peyton Stafford]

I recommend the free editor on reedsy.com. It is designed for writing books, so it knows about chapters and other features, like inserting scene breaks (!). The onscreen format is quite book-like and there are a couple of pdf export options and a word "backup" export.

For those not Scrivener-phobic, Scrivener does all that automatically (if you don't wreck the export settings).

 

[Robinne Weiss]

I just read in a Facebook group - slightly different as it was about custom fonts for paragraphs, but I suppose works in light of Robinne’s comment - that an author had problems with these not loading on kindle.

You have to turn them into jpgs first--that's the trick. For a glyph, that works fine. Wouldn't do so well for a paragraph though.

 

[CarolMS]

I just use the three asterisks (called a dinkus, oddly enough), of * * * . Problem solved. No unusual formatting to deal with, and very commonly used.

 

[Bloo]

Trouble with glyphs is that they have a default white background. Switch to a different Kindle page color, and they look wrong.

 

[Robinne Weiss]

Trouble with glyphs is that they have a default white background. Switch to a different Kindle page color, and they look wrong.

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Using a gif would solve that problem (except with the black background, on which a black gif would disappear completely).

 

[Robinne Weiss]

Using a gif would solve that problem (except with the black background, on which a black gif would disappear completely).

Sorry, I meant a png, not a gif...though a gif would work too. The key is to have a transparent background.