Craft Chat 5 Things you’ve learned writing ‘Book name”

[LJ Beck]

I just read this blog post by Chuck Wendig (link below) and it sounds like a fun/cool thing for us to do too.

List 5 things you’ve learned writing a now completed novel/novella. It doesn’t have to be things about the book, it can be things you learned about yourself, or some interesting tidbit you researched that blew your mind, or revelations that came to you whist writing.

It is not, however, about plugging your book. But you can post the cover of your novel. Unlike Chuck’s blog, it doesn’t not have to be published. It just needs to have one full draft completed.

Here’s the blog post: Five Things You Learned As A Writer Writing That Cool Thing You Wrote?

 

[Nikky Lee]

Here's mine in no particular order of importance (just what came to me first):

1. You and your editor will edit the book to within an inch of its life. You will then hand it over to your proofreader confident they won't find much. Proofreader will then find over 100 typos, grammar errors, inconsistent spellings etc.

2. The first page you open on your beautifully printed book baby will contain a typo.

3. Emotion makes for memorable. Readers may not necessarily remember the ins and outs of what happened in your story, but they will remember how it made them feel.

4. High school geography and history really came into their own but probably not the way my teachers intended (having that knowledge has been IMMENSELY useful for worldbuilding).

5. Random factoid: Straws were invented by Ancient Sumerians because they didn't strain their "beer" after it fermented so it was full of chunks. So they used hollow reeds to drink around the bits.

 

[Jake E]

I think the biggest things I learned while writing TTwP are:

1) What one person finds funny, another person completely misses.

2) MS Word spell checker is absolute garbage.

3) Text to speech is a really efficient way to proof-read.

4) A well written character can surprise you.

5)Plot holes cannot be avoided, only embraced.

 

[Nikky Lee]

3) Text to speech is a really efficient way to proof-read.

Ooo, yes, I second this!

 

[Claire G]

1) Books need to have much, much more than a great premise (I knew this of course, but I really learned the hard way that it can't carry a poorly-executed novel).
2) Protagonists can be unlikeable, but the reader should still want to invest in their story.
3) Bad guys need to have some redeeming qualities.
4) It's sooo hard to get pacing right! (I've done some research and written a pending blog post about this)
5) Readers can confuse the content of my novel/the characterisation with my own personal beliefs.

 

[LJ Beck]

It's hard to pick only 5 things I learned writing TGRA from the many things I learned, but these spring to mind...

1) It's okay to not know a lot of things about the story, or change a lot of things I thought I knew, when writing the first draft.
2) Not so okay in the second draft. Before I start editing, I gotta know what's what, or that'll get really frustrating fast. And no bluffing either.
3) The stuff I liked the best came from stuff I wasn't sure would work, and wasn't sure how to do, but did it anyway.
4) Let the characters have a say in what they do. They might f-up the outline, but better that than pushing a square peg in a round hole.
5) Our galaxy is a spiral galaxy that has a "galactic bulge" in the center with a giant black hole. They really do call it "The Bulge."

 

[Pamela Jo]

Horses have longer memories than elephants. They may have the longest memories of any mammal other than humans-certainly me since `I cant find my phone half the time.

Beneficial microbes are what compost the soil that grows all the plants on earth and we've been destroying that ecosystem since agriculture began. This is why there may be less than 40 harvests left and the fertiliser revolution of the 60's that enabled a boom in world population was not the blessing it seemed at the time. We are dependent on a world that is invisible to us.

The best stories have gossip at their core.

Stephen King is right, writing is self-hypnosis. Getting into that zone is the trick and a regular routine prepares your brain to hypnotise itself on demand.

Curiosity is a potent motivator, maybe the best tool in a writers kit.

 

[Sedayne]

Five things I've learned in writing The Superior Position of Hannah Thomas

• It was both easier and harder than I expected.
• When I thought I had finished, I still had nine months work left to do.
• I surprised myself to discover that I love rewriting and editing even more than first-draft writing, and it's very hard to stop and say it's finished.
• I will never be bored or lonely ever again. In my characters, I have made imaginary friends for life.
• It was worth writing even if it never gains wide readership.

 

[Rich.]

There's so much here that rings true! Among them...

Emotion makes for memorable. Readers may not necessarily remember the ins and outs of what happened in your story, but they will remember how it made them feel.

I so agree with this.

The stuff I liked the best came from stuff I wasn't sure would work, and wasn't sure how to do, but did it anyway.

And this.

I surprised myself to discover that I love rewriting and editing even more than first-draft writing, and it's very hard to stop and say it's finished.

And this was true for me as well.

---

Five things I learned while writing my first and only completed novel, in ascending order of importance:

5) Writing the opening of a novel as if it were the pre-title scene of a movie is prone to confuse or emotionally disappoint a reader.

4) Being a hotshot at structure does not guarantee an engaging story.

3) The Victorians have a lot to answer for, not least of which is the gentlemen's club.

2) Writing a novel is not universally perceived by those one loves as a valid use of one's time.

1) If you have a nagging doubt that something you've written isn't working, then it isn't. Others will seize on the thing that bothers you and be considerably more bothered than you are. It's better that the bothered ones are beta readers rather than agents, publishers or paying customers.

 

[Hannah F]

What my present WIP is teaching me, especially in relation to what I thought I knew about craft when writing my first novel:

1. You can write a great genre fiction story that will probably sell well once you are an established author, but to become that established author (me not there yet) and get across the threshold of agent/publisher gatekeepers (if that's your goal) you must offer them a story with the 3 act or 5 act structure they recognise and expect. If you wish to divert from that structure do so for very good reason.
2. Once you know your story and characters, it helps to write scenes, that your main protagonist is in, from a secondary character's/antagonist's POV. This is their story too and they will see things/know things that you and your protagonist don't. By fleshing them out in this way, you will become even more aware of what the protagonist sees/feels about the other character(s) in the scene. (But don't become subservient to your secondary characters and think you must include the scenes with their POV, because - believe me - they will insist that you do.)
3. Show is not just zooming in and showing "the glint of light on broken glass", it's about how your POV character reacts/feels about that glint of light. All show must be for the purpose of immersion.
4. Tell is not a bad word. It's ok to tell when it's appropriate, when showing does not serve your story at that point. It's about balance and story progression.
5. Loving a scene/chapter isn't a reason to keep it. If beta readers (more than one) tell you it takes them out of the story/spoils the flow/slows the pace then edit with a sharp blade or (and most probably more advisable) send it to your outtakes file. It won't have that bad effect on you because you know the whole story. It has that effect on your reader precisely because they only know the story to that point.

 

[Sedayne]

I just want to say how much I am enjoying this thread. It's a privilege to read everyone's experiences, many of which resonate with me.
Thanks @LJ Beck for starting the discussion - absolutely fascinating.

 

[JoanUP]

1) Check punctuation as a first step, not a last. Don't wait to write 80,000 words before discovering your use of commas is awful.
2) GET/GOT can mean about anything and it requires a search/replace.
They got married. He got mad. She got the book. We got to the end of the line. You've got to be kidding.
3) No one of your family or friends wants to hear about progress on your novel. That's what writers groups are for.
4) Experimenting with the nuances of dialog and its undertones in writing opens new understandings to real-life verbal communcation.
5) The process of writing modifies ideas for a story and takes the story places that weren't originally planned.

 

[RedSquiggle]

What my present WIP is teaching me, especially in relation to what I thought I knew about craft when writing my first novel:

1. You can write a great genre fiction story that will probably sell well once you are an established author, but to become that established author (me not there yet) and get across the threshold of agent/publisher gatekeepers (if that's your goal) you must offer them a story with the 3 act or 5 act structure they recognise and expect. If you wish to divert from that structure do so for very good reason.
2. Once you know your story and characters, it helps to write scenes, that your main protagonist is in, from a secondary character's/antagonist's POV. This is their story too and they will see things/know things that you and your protagonist don't. By fleshing them out in this way, you will become even more aware of what the protagonist sees/feels about the other character(s) in the scene. (But don't become subservient to your secondary characters and think you must include the scenes with their POV, because - believe me - they will insist that you do.)
3. Show is not just zooming in and showing "the glint of light on broken glass", it's about how your POV character reacts/feels about that glint of light. All show must be for the purpose of immersion.
4. Tell is not a bad word. It's ok to tell when it's appropriate, when showing does not serve your story at that point. It's about balance and story progression.
5. Loving a scene/chapter isn't a reason to keep it. If beta readers (more than one) tell you it takes them out of the story/spoils the flow/slows the pace then edit with a sharp blade or (and most probably more advisable) send it to your outtakes file. It won't have that bad effect on you because you know the whole story. It has that effect on your reader precisely because they only know the story to that point.

I second the Outtakes file. I used to do this religiously when writing essays. If a paragraph I really liked just wasn't sitting right, I'd chuck it in a new document and then if I changed my mind or found a place for it, I could always come back to it.

 

[RedSquiggle]

1. You should've done this years ago, but self-limiting beliefs held you back.

2. Some of your beta readers will flake out, so send to more than the number you plan on getting feedback from.

3. Outlines are a nice insurance policy at the outset, but your writing will outgrow it. It's like a fruit tree: it's a tree, it bears the fruit you thought it would, but its branching is determined in mysterious ways.

4. A long walk will clarify a lot in terms of plot and character development, without you even trying.

5. That weeks-long rush of dopamine--when you pass the 80% mark, and you know you're really going to finish--is divine. Knowing it awaits you helps you push through middle.

 

[RK Wallis]

I missed this! What a great thread @LJ Beck

1. YouTube can be a great resource.
2. Resist the urge to explain.
3. To differentiate what sounds like "writing" and DELETE (kill those darlings): boil the story down to the action.
4. Readers are interested in reading about people and how characters see things/react etc- give readers what they want.
5. Gives characters hard dilemmas every scene.

 

[Hannah F]

1) Check punctuation as a first step, not a last. Don't wait to write 80,000 words before discovering your use of commas is awful.
2) GET/GOT can mean about anything and it requires a search/replace.
They got married. He got mad. She got the book. We got to the end of the line. You've got to be kidding.
3) No one of your family or friends wants to hear about progress on your novel. That's what writers groups are for.
4) Experimenting with the nuances of dialog and its undertones in writing opens new understandings to real-life verbal communcation.
5) The process of writing modifies ideas for a story and takes the story places that weren't originally planned.

I agree except for your point 1. Line-editing (i.e. punctuation) should come after a structural edit (unless you're submitting to a competition or something). Reason: in your structural edit you most likely will delete scenes, chapters, big chunks . . . You might even find yourself needing to do a major re-write. So all that line-editing will go out the window. A waste of precious time. DO line-edit though before going out on submission.

My addition to that would be to learn grammar use e.g. how to use commas. Learn it, practice it on short pieces, until it comes naturally. Then you will find you have much less line-editing to do.

 

[LJ Beck]

4. A long walk will clarify a lot in terms of plot and character development, without you even trying.

For me it's a long hot shower. I call it my ideas temple. Solutions to problems I didn't even know I had come to me in the Ideas Temple. haha.

 

[RK Wallis]

I agree except for your point 1. Line-editing (i.e. punctuation) should come after a structural edit (unless you're submitting to a competition or something). Reason: in your structural edit you most likely will delete scenes, chapters, big chunks . . . You might even find yourself needing to do a major re-write. So all that line-editing will go out the window. A waste of precious time. DO line-edit though before going out on submission.

My addition to that would be to learn grammar use e.g. how to use commas. Learn it, practice it on short pieces, until it comes naturally. Then you will find you have much less line-editing to do.

I second this. I've done it and then edited my MS beyond recognition. Kept telling myself I needed to do it because I can't edit clutter and I didn't want to put a reader through a mess. However, through over a decade of critiquing, I've learnt no matter how much you edit, another writer will find something (as @Nikky Lee said, it happens all the way through to publication). I've taught myself to let go a little (because I can't let go of this completely, lol).

 

[LJ Beck]

I totally see what you're saying, @RK Wallis and @Hannah F, you'll change a lot so why waste time with small stuff. However, I agree with @JoanUP in that I do think knowing grammar, spelling, correct word usage and punctuation are all very valuable skills to have in your toolkit. Paying attention to that stuff from the git go saves time in everything in the long run. And the more you do it right, and learn it, the better off you'll be. I say this as someone who is horrible at all of that. But not as horrible as I used to be! I wrote my first MS using commas completely wrong. Made it harder for my beta readers, and then editing got super boring to fix all those damned commas.... ;P

 

[Pamela Jo]

Commas. On the other hand commas, quotation marks etc... are different in the US and UK and even without those differences can trigger sumo wrestler sized disputes. Don't let it be a distraction.

 

[RK Wallis]

I totally see what you're saying, @RK Wallis and @Hannah F, you'll change a lot so why waste time with small stuff. However, I agree with @JoanUP in that I do think knowing grammar, spelling, correct word usage and punctuation are all very valuable skills to have in your toolkit. Paying attention to that stuff from the git go saves time in everything in the long run. And the more you do it right, and learn it, the better off you'll be. I say this as someone who is horrible at all of that. But not as horrible as I used to be! I wrote my first MS using commas completely wrong. Made it harder for my beta readers, and then editing got super boring to fix all those damned commas.... ;P

I'm not saying we don't know grammar, but when you write your mind and fingers sometimes don't cooperate. When that happens, don't sweat the grammar besides:

Where do scripts go wrong, language-wise, beyond the points already covered? Here I have no comprehensive answers, let alone data that can be classed as definitive. But awkwardness does develop in certain special areas often enough to be worth mentioning. Thus,

a. Sentence structure grows monotonous.
b. Subject and verb are separated.
c. Adverbs are placed improperly.
d. Words and phrases are repeated inadvertently.
e. Correct grammar becomes a fetish.
f. Meaning isn’t made clear instantly.

There are more, of course; too many more. But these will do for a start. The solution to each problem is largely a matter of common sense.

Swain, Dwight V.. Techniques of the Selling Writer (p. 32). University of Oklahoma Press. Kindle Edition.

 

[Hannah F]

Shall we eat, Uncle Jack?

Shall we eat Uncle Jack?

 

[LJ Beck]

I'm definitely not fetishizeing grammar. Mine's just so bad from years of not caring about it at all, that now I can take all the practice I can get. And in fact, by being aware of it, all the time, I have gotten better. It was absolutely attrocious when I was younger. Now it's just bad.

I personally don't agree that grammar is common sense. Spelling either. There are way too many times it's completely illogical! Makes me crazy.

Anyway, the beauty of this question, "what I learned while writing X" is that we're all gonna learn somethun different. And that's cool.

 

[Hannah F]

I'm definitely not fetishizeing grammar. Mine's just so bad from years of not caring about it at all, that now I can take all the practice I can get. And in fact, by being aware of it, all the time, I have gotten better. It was absolutely attrocious when I was younger. Now it's just bad.

I personally don't agree that grammar is common sense. Spelling either. There are way too many times it's completely illogical! Makes me crazy.

Anyway, the beauty of this question, "what I learned while writing X" is that we're all gonna learn somethun different. And that's cool.

Yep, the use of punctuations such as commas and semi-colons only seems like common sense when you actually know how to use them.

 

[Nikky Lee]

It was absolutely attrocious when I was younger.

I was not taught grammar in school. It was dropped from the Australian school curriculum before I started; they thought we would learn it by osmosis. (Spoiler: you don't.) Having to learn it all as an adult has been a slow and steady grind. I wrote a blog about it with some grammar hacks that I use all the time: 5 grammar hacks to help you edit your writing

 

[Pamela Jo]

I was not taught grammar in school. It was dropped from the Australian school curriculum before I started; they thought we would learn it by osmosis. (Spoiler: you don't.) Having to learn it all as an adult has been a slow and steady grind. I wrote a blog about it with some grammar hacks that I use all the time: 5 grammar hacks to help you edit your writing

Funnily enough I remember writing pages of exercise sheets with who and whom. I didnt remember why, but I know when it sounds wrong. Thank yu to the ex-nun who made us diagram sentences in 6th grade. I think I was the only one who enjoyed it.

 

[Nikky Lee]

Funnily enough I remember writing pages of exercise sheets with who and whom. I didnt remember why, but I know when it sounds wrong. Thank yu to the ex-nun who made us diagram sentences in 6th grade. I think I was the only one who enjoyed it.

Meanwhile, I learned there was a difference between who and whom from Castle

 

[Aethalope]

I had to learn English in a German school -- as a native English speaker in a class of Germans.

As in, I had to learn 'I am, you are, he/she/it is...'

It was so excruciatingly boring that I would drift off into daydreams. But the teachers loved catching me out by making me answer a question I had missed.

I mean, I get it, no teacher likes a student who is better than them, but they could have just let me read a book in the corner.

 

[Pamela Jo]

I had to learn English in a German school -- as a native English speaker in a class of Germans.

As in, I had to learn 'I am, you are, he/she/it is...'

It was so excruciatingly boring that I would drift off into daydreams. But the teachers loved catching me out by making me answer a question I had missed.

I mean, I get it, no teacher likes a student who is better than them, but they could have just let me read a book in the corner.

My sons were in that boat. The primary school teacher made my youngest her teaching assistant and he would go around helping the other kids. There is a class of Swiss 20 somethings out there with a Kansan accent. My oldest was made miserable and given a barely passable grade. A good teacher is an artist, a bad teacher ...fill in the blank....

 

[LJ Beck]

My best teacher was my older sister. She tutored me in all the sciences and calculus, but sadly she also can't spell and isn't great with grammar. I don't remember being taught those things in school either, but I do remember my report cards always said, "Lyse is a very creative writer, but she needs to learn how to spell!" haha. The obvious response is, then teach her.

I do wonder if it's also the way we read. My sister was a voracious (I had to look up how to spell that) reader. But she and I read the same way. Chunks of words together, not every word separately. (I always spell that word how it sounds, seperately, and always have to correct it.) We both have trouble sounding out some words, too. We recognize patterns more than specific letters. And in reading we relate the pattern of a complex name, and don't bother to sound it out in our heads. That pattern is that character. That also means that I never actually notice punctuation, spelling, etc. Just the shape of the words. Anyway, probably has something to do with being bad at it.

Writing and critiquing are different. It forces me to employ a different method. It could be one reason critiquing takes me so long. And writing, well, I do a lot of drafts and edits and apologies to my beta readers... haha.