READ AT YOUR OWN RISK: Dear World at Large, what *I* think women need in romantic fiction

Gem Of A Blog Post On How To Make Your Dialogue Sparkle

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Amber Zade

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Give me a moment to take my place behind the pulpit.

I remember the first time I learned there were women who didn't have orgasms. I was beside myself. "You mean, they don't have orgasms ever? Years and years of marriage, no orgasms?" I asked.

I learned there were women who had children and grandchildren and would say, "Sex, I've never seen the big deal."

Well, ladies, not necessarily these ladies but ladies in the world at large, sex is a big deal. It's a huge deal and the idea of women leaving this life without having an orgasm, is like someone leaving the planet without ever witnessing a sunrise. Except, a lot of the time, an orgasm is better.

I didn't grow up in the bible belt and was raised by a mother who had no trouble talking about sex. Nor did any of the women in her family have trouble talking about sex. They were not saying things like, 'I was just about to drift to sleep and he bothered me again...."

When I first started writing 'seriously' I joined a number of online RWA Chapters. They give classes online and looking for tips on how to write a sex scene, I signed up for a class called Schmexy Times given by an erotica author.

I should have known better. I like things to be called by their name unless it's a word the character would obviously use or unless its a natural outgrowth of the couple's relationship. This word Schmexy made me cringe. Why I asked myself. Why?

Day 1 was devoted to finding names for body parts. We were supposed to make a list. Day two was devoted to sexual acts. We were supposed to make a list. Day three was devoted to euphemisms for THE act. Day four we wrote a scene about a first kiss. The only exercise I participated in was the first kiss scene. Then I had to tune out the rest.

At one point I started to write an article for a romance writers publication about what bothered me about the Schmexy class. The publication had taken my articles before. I failed miserably. I could not get out what I wanted to say. I knew my audience, a group of southern women, some of them wrote inspirational fiction, at least one of them wrote M/M erotic fiction. Still, how to explain what bothered me without alienating my audience?

I've written all sorts of backwards, upside down stuff but I finally had to give up on this article.

This EL James nonsense has bothered me from day 1. Everywhere I go I carry a book. For a while, carrying around a book was an invitation for people to introduce 50 Shades of Grey to me. I was asked by a waitress, a lady at CVS, and a nurse in my doctor's office if I had read 50 Shades. Giggle giggle. Blush blush.

My problem with it? It's not new. It's not revolutionary. It does nothing to spark a discussion on women's sexuality which we dearly need to have, some day, maybe; if we ever get the nerve.

Power exchange fiction is older than the Marquis de Sade. Anne Rice has written 5 books which were all better written then 50 Shades. There's also The Story of O and don't forget a little book, and movie called 9 1/2 weeks. Lolita, although more than a little creepy, is essentially power exchange fiction. Belinda, a book by Anne Rice is interesting because the power exchange is not typical; it's the young girl with control. All bookstores have these books and more. Even little tiny indie book stores right smack on top of the Bible belt have these books. People who read, have been reading them for years.

Some of these books are fabulous because they give a perfect picture of one aspect of human sexuality that yes, hasn't gotten a lot of air time. My problem is, from everything I've heard, 50 Shades doesn't hold a candle to these books. So, they've sparked a discussion, but the wrong one, and a rather immature one, where we're still just sort of toying with the idea, not really understanding the drives of the very real people who engage for whatever reason in this totally authentic and real lifestyle.

Incidentally, if you are squicked out by the idea of power exchange, most vampire fiction, most lycanthrope fiction has power exchange elements. Imagine a vampire in a classic pose; the woman's neck is bared, she is under the vampire's spell, and he is about to drink. Imagine the pack mentality and structure described in shifter novels. We use these 'devices' if you will, to express and explore parts of our collective psyche's and especially the many varied aspects of our sexuality. We often use supernatural beings as proxies for our hidden desires and curiosities.

So, color me pissed off when EL James, a not so great writer by all accounts, gets attention when if you wanted a mature discussion of power exchange relationships, you had only to turn to Laurell K Hamilton, who not only weaves it into her fiction, but participates in an alternative lifestyle and has gone to the trouble of educating herself on the subject of BDSM.

I don't personally think the world needs more BDSM fiction and if I see one more of those understated book covers meant to emulate 50 Shades, I may hold a book burning.

What I think the world needs is more female characters who own their sexuality. No this doesn't mean always being in charge. It doesn't always mean someone else being in charge either. It does mean a woman who doesn't depend on a man for her orgasm. Weird? Maybe. Women's bodies are intricate, we should get to know our own bodies and do so fearlessly. I'm all for taking a look at our parts. Our bodies have kinesthetic memories. The more often we do something, the more often it can be repeated. So - yes - I - am - saying - the - unthinkable. Women - all women - might consider - getting to know our bodies and learning how to give ourselves orgasms. There's no confusing sex with love when you can get physiological fireworks without a man.

Also, USE YOUR WORDS. Call things by their name. None of this lovebud stuff. Stop that! {Unless it's a part of how you speak to your lover - then it's endearing} Otherwise, OFF with the euphemisms! Maybe romance would be laughed at a little less if we weren't tiptoeing around the lovemaking part of our books.

Finally, the lovemaking part of our books is important. There are lots of ways to have sex. There's sex for pleasure. There's sex for release. I'm not against any sort of reason for sex, unless and until it becomes the only reason or way you can relate to people. Then it becomes compulsion at least and addition at worst.

However, ultimately, sex is a holy sacrament between two people. That's when it's the best, that's when it's lovemaking, and that's what romance writers are trying to express.
 
Lots of good points about sex in writing. God forbid one should ever be given the Bad Sex in Fiction Award. I don't read women's fiction; if that's, say, Jackie Collins, but I've read a lot of Joanna Trollope's books. She has a formula, but her writing is so socially astute, she is so observant of men and women; she's not boring, and their relationships have sex in the mix, of course, but she barely goes into the bedroom, and certainly not graphically. I prefer that; I don't want to be made into a voyeur. Sex itself may or may not be 'sexy'. Desire on the other hand, is sexy. Or potentially horrific if unwelcome to the other person. Its implications and consequences make a story, whether it's about a desire that's one sided or reciprocated.

Ben Okri won the Bad Sex Award in 2014. 'Okri’s editor, Maggie McKernan, said: “Winning the award is fun but a bit undignified, just like sex, assuming you do it properly.”

http://www.theguardian.com/books/poll/2014/nov/12/literary-review-bad-sex-award-shortlist-2014
 
Lots of good points about sex in writing. God forbid one should ever be given the Bad Sex in Fiction Award. I don't read women's fiction; if that's, say, Jackie Collins, but I've read a lot of Joanna Trollope's books. She has a formula, but her writing is so socially astute, she is so observant of men and women; she's not boring, and their relationships have sex in the mix, of course, but she barely goes into the bedroom, and certainly not graphically. I prefer that; I don't want to be made into a voyeur. Sex itself may or may not be 'sexy'. Desire on the other hand, is sexy. Or potentially horrific if unwelcome to the other person. Its implications and consequences make a story, whether it's about a desire that's one sided or reciprocated.

Ben Okri won the Bad Sex Award in 2014. 'Okri’s editor, Maggie McKernan, said: “Winning the award is fun but a bit undignified, just like sex, assuming you do it properly.”

http://www.theguardian.com/books/poll/2014/nov/12/literary-review-bad-sex-award-shortlist-2014
LOL Yes. In the end, what you read is personal preference. I've never read Ben Okri. Also, I suppose, what you do.
 
It's quite a new thought in the male/phallic-centric world, that a woman has sexual needs. Two hundred years ago, a girl could get locked up in an asylum for such naughty thoughts. Even when the world cottoned on to the concept of a female orgasm, the main literary voice of erotica would've been from men, writing what they thought women wanted. Our world is expanding, and exploring new territory. There are some weird, pervy women out there, lmao. It's a good thing. :D
 
It's quite a new thought in the male/phallic-centric world, that a woman has sexual needs. Two hundred years ago, a girl could get locked up in an asylum for such naughty thoughts. Even when the world cottoned on to the concept of a female orgasm, the main literary voice of erotica would've been from men, writing what they thought women wanted. Our world is expanding, and exploring new territory. There are some weird, pervy women out there, lmao. It's a good thing. :D
LOL I'm tempted to say that your comment is almost sexist (tin hat on). I believe that for many centuries there have been men who have realised that women have sexual needs and have sought to satisfy those needs - most often within a marital relationship, but not always. The 'public opinion' of such needs is of course a different matter and largely meets with your statement, I believe (no supporting evidence to hand).
 
Amber, you mention several classic and more recent books that treat sex better than E.L. James - superior in plotting and writing technique. May I suggest though, that part of the reason for the success of the Fifty Shades series is that it's because they are so poorly written. Their humdrum nature makes them unintimidating and readily accessible. As I commented in another post, there's good reasons that things get dumbed down. More cinema goers watch trashy Michael Bay films, than seek out the masterpieces by Akira Kurosawa. These unchallenging films are known as popcorn movies - perhaps E.L. James and other books of this ilk should be called popporn! It's certainly less offensive than calling it mummy/mommy porn.
I have nothing against writing of a sexual nature, but I do resent the way that the term erotica has been hijacked for what is essentially pornography. As the old joke goes ' Erotic is when you make love to someone using a feather. Pornographic is using the whole chicken!' Most of the so-called erotic romances are explicit enough to be considered sexual instruction manuals. I am all for people enjoying great sex lives, but some of the more heavy-duty BDSM practices hold many psychological and physical risks.
If I can play devil's advocate for a moment : what would have been said if the Fifty Shades books were written by a man? Would they have been as successful, and would the author have received more vilification for objectifying women and sanctioning violence against them? This has happened to E.L. James, I know, and she was recently ambushed in a Twitter Q & A session - http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...twitter-fans-outrage-sexual-assault/29506053/
But she's still got the sanctioned boost of empowering women and their sexuality through being a female author. It's an example of the odd sociological phenomenon of the reverse use of what were once considered insults to denote membership of a minority group. I worked with black and Hispanic people in Atlanta, who regularly used what would be called racial slurs in joking with one another - but only if a white person said them. It's been the same with the gay people I've known, who bandy about terms such as queen, poof, bull dyke, twink and lipstick lesbian in conversation - even though these would be considered politically incorrect if used by straight people.
A similar thing has taken place via domination and submission writing, with female liberation spreading its remit to include power-play in the bedroom. Whatever happened to having a nice cuddle? Tee-hee...
 
I'm loving this sexofemanistic theme we got running here. It's of course true that women are seen as the tools of the trade far more often than they are seen as the customer. Even women writers write about pleasing the man, and oh look he touched her up a bit but jeeze-oh put some effort in... gads! It's not like they're asking for much now is it?
 
LOL I'm tempted to say that your comment is almost sexist (tin hat on). I believe that for many centuries there have been men who have realised that women have sexual needs and have sought to satisfy those needs - most often within a marital relationship, but not always. The 'public opinion' of such needs is of course a different matter and largely meets with your statement, I believe (no supporting evidence to hand).

It's hard to please someone when they don't know what they want. It's hard to know what you want if you never knew there were choices or variations. Yeah - I think you're right - there probably have been a lot of situations like you've described.
 
Amber, you mention several classic and more recent books that treat sex better than E.L. James - superior in plotting and writing technique. May I suggest though, that part of the reason for the success of the Fifty Shades series is that it's because they are so poorly written. Their humdrum nature makes them unintimidating and readily accessible. As I commented in another post, there's good reasons that things get dumbed down. More cinema goers watch trashy Michael Bay films, than seek out the masterpieces by Akira Kurosawa. These unchallenging films are known as popcorn movies - perhaps E.L. James and other books of this ilk should be called popporn! It's certainly less offensive than calling it mummy/mommy porn.
I have nothing against writing of a sexual nature, but I do resent the way that the term erotica has been hijacked for what is essentially pornography. As the old joke goes ' Erotic is when you make love to someone using a feather. Pornographic is using the whole chicken!' Most of the so-called erotic romances are explicit enough to be considered sexual instruction manuals. I am all for people enjoying great sex lives, but some of the more heavy-duty BDSM practices hold many psychological and physical risks.
If I can play devil's advocate for a moment : what would have been said if the Fifty Shades books were written by a man? Would they have been as successful, and would the author have received more vilification for objectifying women and sanctioning violence against them? This has happened to E.L. James, I know, and she was recently ambushed in a Twitter Q & A session - http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...twitter-fans-outrage-sexual-assault/29506053/
But she's still got the sanctioned boost of empowering women and their sexuality through being a female author. It's an example of the odd sociological phenomenon of the reverse use of what were once considered insults to denote membership of a minority group. I worked with black and Hispanic people in Atlanta, who regularly used what would be called racial slurs in joking with one another - but only if a white person said them. It's been the same with the gay people I've known, who bandy about terms such as queen, poof, bull dyke, twink and lipstick lesbian in conversation - even though these would be considered politically incorrect if used by straight people.
A similar thing has taken place via domination and submission writing, with female liberation spreading its remit to include power-play in the bedroom. Whatever happened to having a nice cuddle? Tee-hee...

I never thought of it. You might be right. The Story of O is kind of dry, heavy on symbolism if I recall. Anne Rice's Beauty Books are a little 'out there'. I can't figure out why they are successful. No idea. I've never seen a whole country take to a book the way they took to 50 Shades - and I'm not entirely sure why. Sometimes I think it was that morning person who recommended it on TV. There was a bookseller at a writer's group meeting and she said people were asking for it before it was even distributed. It didn't start with traditional publishing. I really think it started on an online blog or something. Isn't that how fan fiction is written. Maybe a huge part of it is just that Grey is so conservative and acceptable and seemingly normal in other ways - he's a successful businessman, in a grey suit I imagine. The American Dream Man.

Um... if what you're saying is a man would have gotten hell for writing the 50 Shades books ... I think you're right.

I think ELJames did the twitter thing as a publicity stunt.

It's true that certain words and/or commentary are more acceptable depending on who is saying it.

Nothing wrong with a cuddle. Or a nap. Naps are my favorite things these days.
 
LOL I'm tempted to say that your comment is almost sexist (tin hat on). I believe that for many centuries there have been men who have realised that women have sexual needs and have sought to satisfy those needs - most often within a marital relationship, but not always. The 'public opinion' of such needs is of course a different matter and largely meets with your statement, I believe (no supporting evidence to hand).

I admit to being a little sexist on this, but I'm sure there have been many men, past and present, striving to support and encourage feminine sexuality. I'm no expert on feminist history, I shall bow out gracefully lol:p
 
Personally I dislike having to read this 'Part A goes into Slot B' erotica, and I certainly don't write it. As so often, less is more when alluding to intimacy.
In the book I've just finished (mercifully free of any descriptions of this type), there was a chapter when the protagonist is for a while sharing his flat with a young woman and starts finding her alluring but is always politely but firmly rebuffed when attempting any sort of advance. Then, for a variety of reasons, her feeling change and the next time he tries his luck: This time it was different. That's all. End of chapter.
It speaks volumes as the reader can imagine whatever he or she wishes.
 
Personally I dislike having to read this 'Part A goes into Slot B' erotica, and I certainly don't write it. As so often, less is more when alluding to intimacy.
In the book I've just finished (mercifully free of any descriptions of this type), there was a chapter when the protagonist is for a while sharing his flat with a young woman and starts finding her alluring but is always politely but firmly rebuffed when attempting any sort of advance. Then, for a variety of reasons, her feeling change and the next time he tries his luck: This time it was different. That's all. End of chapter.
It speaks volumes as the reader can imagine whatever he or she wishes.

I don't know of anyone who likes reading slot a goes into slot b sex scenes.

There's also nothing wrong with a closed door love scene. It can have a huge impact. It's not a sex scene though.

I am specifically referring to fiction where open door sex scenes would be found. This includes Historical Romance, Contemporary Romance, Fantasy Romance, Urban Romance, Steampunk Romance.... all to varying degrees. The list can include other genres but this is a good working list. If you go to a publication called Romantic Times, you will see references to 'Heat Level'.

A lot of people believe Erotica is porn. I'm on the fence. I will admit confess that I was just sitting around one day, innocently writing and my story became an erotica. In defense of my story I'll say the ertotica is integral to the plot. I am going to finish it, I've fallen in love with the story and the idea.

If you ask an erotica author what the difference between erotica and porn is, they will tell you that the sex scenes drive the plot forward. They will also tell you that relationship change and/or growth takes place during the sex scenes. In spite of the fact I have started an erotica novel, I don't read in the erotica genre on a regular basis. I read the Anne Rice books when I was younger. I read the Story of O at about the same time. One day during banned book week I picked up a copy of one of a Marquis de Sade book. I read a good portion of it but ....... it had to go. Nine and 1/2 Weeks I have always been fascinated with. But if I go to a bookstore, I don't usually pick up erotica. But I've read some of everything and that isn't an exaggeration. Correction - I've never read westerns although I am really considering the Longmore series.

I believe the slot A goes into slow B mechanical type of sex scenes comes from the list making attitude found in the Schmexy class. It's hard to have a sex scene include the details of what is happening physically and also express what it means to the couple making love. I think to a certain extent, the author has to approach it fearlessly. I have no idea if the sex scenes I've written are any good. That remains to be scene. But I am not a slot a slot be sort of person and hopefully I didn't make that mistake.
 
I think what people forget is that their readers are intelligent. You don't have to use words for anything other than sensation. All this hardness and wetness nonsense is useless in my opinion, as is the needless of naming body parts. You can get a much better scene if you DON'T use words like that.
am I right @Jennifer Stone ?

(Lovely Jen has now read about half the full on sex scenes in my books. - at least you has last time I checked lol)
 
There are some excellent points made in this thread, so here's my take on it, as someone who is making money writing erotic romance.

I prefer writing and reading erotic romance for the very reason the OP listed. We call a part a part. And yes, there still has to be a STORY there behind the sex. Or maybe in addition to the sex is more accurate. Readers want the sex, but they will rip us a new one if there is no story along with it.

As for BDSM romance, I write that, although I am moving away from writing a TPE relationship and merely putting in kinky sex instead. My publishers call that "BDSM" although adding in kinky sex does not make it a true Dom/sub relationship. I've written it both ways. Readers like it, but again if it's not true to life, they will nail you for it, so I've done my research and I ask a lot of questions of people I know in real life who are in a true BDSM relationship.

My heroines don't depend on their men for their orgasms, even in my BDSM books. They masturbate and they take charge during sex scenes. But what you have to understand is that for some women (me, for example) it's sexy as hell to let a man take charge during sex. That's a personal thing, but it doesn't make it wrong. For that person who enjoys it, it's no different than any pleasurable act. You're entitled to your opinion, but me asking my husband to tie me up and spank me during sex doesn't make me a doormat. It's not abusive because I asked him to do it, and it doesn't mean I need a man to own my sexuality. I assure you I own it when he's not around, or when he is around but I'm simply in the mood to own it. :) TMI, but there's the truth, not from a book, but from a 57 year old woman's real life sexual experiences.

As for Fifty Shades of Grey, I've already expounded on that in another thread so I won't reiterate it here. Suffice it to say it is NOT a depiction of true BDSM, and personally I found most of the sex scenes ridiculous. Silly and unrealistic, IMHO.

Porn is porn. All sex with no purpose other than sex. Again, if there's not a story, it's not a novel, erotic or otherwise.

Are romances formulaic? Yes. No doubt about it. Does that mean all the heroines are only interested in pleasing their man? No.

But what you also need to know is that in a TPE relationship - in the books where I'm writing as true to life a BDSM relationship as I can, part of the dynamic of being a submissive is to please her Dom(s). That includes sex. So I need to put that in there or readers will wonder why I did not. It doesn't mean the woman's sexuality is dependent on the man or men. It merely means what turns her on is submitting to the play and the sex if that is part of it. There's a subtle difference. But she gets plenty out of it as well. At least in my books she does. :D
 
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More blunt honestly coming up in 3 … 2 … 1 …

What do I think we need in romance novels today? Let's start with craft. It's sorely lacking. Unrealistic dialogue, using dialogue tags to tell me action instead of showing it to me, and odd sentence structure. Sometimes I love reading the old bodice rippers merely because the writing mechanics were solid. I can barely get through most romance novels today because the writing it deplorable. It pulls me out of the story. Is my own perfect? Far from it. But most of the stuff out there today is just garbage, not from a plot or characterization POV (well, sometimes those, too!). They're almost impossible to read because the author is simply not a good writer. Some of them aren't even mediocre writers. Some of them really need to just stop, now, because 30, 40, 50, plus books in they haven't improved at all. So that's where I wish we could start. Right there.

I'd also like to see more of what I love. Fantasy worlds, time travel, angels, demons, and ghosts. :)
 
I think what people forget is that their readers are intelligent. You don't have to use words for anything other than sensation. All this hardness and wetness nonsense is useless in my opinion, as is the needless of naming body parts. You can get a much better scene if you DON'T use words like that.
am I right @Jennifer Stone ?

(Lovely Jen has now read about half the full on sex scenes in my books. - at least you has last time I checked lol)

Hehe, i'm lovely! :p:D
 
More blunt honestly coming up in 3 … 2 … 1 …

What do I think we need in romance novels today? Let's start with craft. It's sorely lacking. Unrealistic dialogue, using dialogue tags to tell me action instead of showing it to me, and odd sentence structure. Sometimes I love reading the old bodice rippers merely because the writing mechanics were solid.

The only romance book that I have ever read is Forever Amber, which I understand started the modern romantic fiction movement. I LOVED it--largely because the writing was so perfect. I think the author's style should be taught in writing courses, it's so good.
 
The only romance book that I have ever read is Forever Amber, which I understand started the modern romantic fiction movement. I LOVED it--largely because the writing was so perfect. I think the author's style should be taught in writing courses, it's so good.

It's a shame no one writes that way any more. :)
 
More blunt honestly coming up in 3 … 2 … 1 …

What do I think we need in romance novels today? Let's start with craft. It's sorely lacking. Unrealistic dialogue, using dialogue tags to tell me action instead of showing it to me, and odd sentence structure. Sometimes I love reading the old bodice rippers merely because the writing mechanics were solid. I can barely get through most romance novels today because the writing it deplorable. It pulls me out of the story. Is my own perfect? Far from it. But most of the stuff out there today is just garbage, not from a plot or characterization POV (well, sometimes those, too!). They're almost impossible to read because the author is simply not a good writer. Some of them aren't even mediocre writers. Some of them really need to just stop, now, because 30, 40, 50, plus books in they haven't improved at all. So that's where I wish we could start. Right there.

I'd also like to see more of what I love. Fantasy worlds, time travel, angels, demons, and ghosts. :)
I HATE unrealistic dialogue!!! I also hate when the woman pretty much climaxes as soon as she is touched. Um... Ok, unless you are pregnant, that just doesn't happen. *sigh, I miss being pregnant* - No, actually I don't but that was a perk I am sure all us ladies that have kids wouldn't say no to again ;)
 
I also hate when the woman pretty much climaxes as soon as she is touched.
That was one of my biggest pet peeves with Fifty Shades. Ana, who was a virgin yet, was able to achieve mind-blowing orgasms without so much as a finger on her clit. Sorry, but that just doesn't happen for the majority of human females.
 
That was one of my biggest pet peeves with Fifty Shades. Ana, who was a virgin yet, was able to achieve mind-blowing orgasms without so much as a finger on her clit. Sorry, but that just doesn't happen for the majority of human females.
Uh huh! And even then many still can't without a lot more. Then there's the pill or jags that messes with your sex drive and ability to translate sensation. Did you know depo provera (the contraceptive jag) is what they give to sex offenders as a chemical castration? They don't tell you that when you are in asking for contraception.
 
Uh huh! And even then many still can't without a lot more. Then there's the pill or jags that messes with your sex drive and ability to translate sensation. Did you know depo provera (the contraceptive jag) is what they give to sex offenders as a chemical castration? They don't tell you that when you are in asking for contraception.

Crazy stuff, that!
 
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