Writing characters of colour

[Josephine]

Came across this a few days ago and it looks like a super useful resource. Loads of questions about writing sensitive and authentic characters of colour, including stuff on e.g. religion; answers provided by people with lived experience. Obviously there's never just one right answer but good to get an informed opinion on complex/sensitive topics. Extremely interesting to browse and I've got a feeling I might be referring to it quite a bit...

Writing With Color

Welcome to Writing with Color. We are dedicated to writing and resources centered on racial, ethnic,...

writingwithcolor.tumblr.com

 

[Pamela Jo]

This is an addendum. Just as an aside Chase Iron Eyes daughter was groomed, and seduced by an actor who participated in the Standing Rock protest. He has reasons to distrust. Reservation Dogs would not have gotten off the ground wo Taiki Waititi-long may he live.

Dear Pamela,

Since its beginning, Hollywood has loved telling stories about Native people. Historically, the western genre relied on casting us as antagonists, the bad guys causing trouble for the heroes of manifest destiny. The protagonist, of course, was often played by noted racist John Wayne. Worse, the badly stereotyped Native characters in these early movies and television shows were also usually played by white actors in redface — makeup designed to make them look like real “Injuns.”

Over the years, we began to see revisionist westerns, in which the storytelling “evolved” to portray the Native man as the noble savage, ignorant of western ways but inherently good. Our hero (think Dustin Hoffman in “Little Big Man” or Kevin Costner in “Dances with Wolves”) might side with Natives and perform heroic acts as our white savior. Unfortunately, now in 2023, not much has changed. Over the past months, “Avatar: the Way of Water” and “Yellowstone” have once again profited mightily — as the most successful movie and show, respectively, in America — off Indigenous stories. So today, I encourage you to read this interview I recently gave to CNBC to talk about why all of this matters and what should be done about it.

In “Avatar: The Way of Water,” non-Indigenous actors play roles clearly written to convey Indigeneity.

Among the biggest issues present in the Avatar franchise: non-Indigenous actors play characters from Indigenous cultures. Kate Winslet, for instance, is a wonderful performer, but is she really the right choice to play the matriarch of the reef clan? Because Pandora, the world portrayed in the Avatar movies, is an alien one mainly rendered through computer-generated imagery, I’m guessing that director James Cameron thought it was OK to cast whoever he wanted. Unfortunately, he’s giving us the same old white savior narrative, this time in space, and now we’ve exchanged redface for blueface.

There’s no doubt that Cameron based his story on real Indigenous struggle. He admitted it in a 2010 interview with the Guardian, saying he was inspired by my Lakota ancestors who faced the onslaught of the United States’ westward expansion during the 1800s. “This was a driving force for me in the writing of Avatar,” Cameron said. “I couldn’t help but think that if they [the Lakota] had had a time-window and they could see the future… and they could see their kids committing suicide at the highest suicide rates in the nation… because they were hopeless and they were a dead-end society — which is what is happening now — they would have fought a lot harder.”

As you know, we are not a “dead-end society.” We’re still here and still struggling to maintain our cultures — which do, as he portrays in his films, prioritize life in harmony with our natural surroundings. We could use Cameron’s help in this regard, not his criticism. I’ll also point out that we could not have “fought harder.” We won several military victories over the U.S. during those years, despite being outgunned and outmanned. No one can ignore our decimation of General George Armstrong Custer’s 7th Cavalry at the Battle of Greasy Grass. Of course, the history books call this conflict “Custer’s Last Stand,” because it’s a (previously unwritten) rule that the white man must be at the center of the narrative kids learn in U.S. schools.

It’s long past time for the history books, Cameron, and other artists and educators to portray Native stories in the right way. It isn’t just about representation, it’s about true agency. Have us in the writers’ room or at least consulting, center Native characters in our own stories, and make sure Indigenous actors play Indigenous roles. Of late, television has begun to do a better job. The recently canceled “Rutherford Falls” is one excellent example, as is Hulu’s “Reservation Dogs,” which got picked up for a third season and deserves Emmys for its second. When Native writers and actors are given seats at the table, our stories resonate with truth, depth, and gravitas — and that’s a win for everyone.

Wopila tanka — thank you for listening!
Chase Iron Eyes
Co-Director and Lead Counsel
The Lakota People’s Law Project







Lakota People's Law Project
547 South 7th Street #149
Bismarck, ND 58504-5859

 

[Dorm Ant]

Thanks for posting, Pamela, that's really interesting. I watched the first Avatar at the cinema when it came out, and did wince a lot, as the way the tribespeople were depicted did seem stereotypical. I liked the way the army were depicted, though. It was a nice antidote to films like Top Gun.

As for this: "Of course, the history books call this conflict “Custer’s Last Stand,” because it’s a (previously unwritten) rule that the white man must be at the center of the narrative kids learn in U.S. schools."

UK schools, too. The history I learned in school was totally white-centric and all about men. (The only interesting historical female figures who got a look-in were Queen Elizabeth 1st, Queen Victoria, and Mary, Queen of Scots.) Things may have changed significantly, over the last few decades? I guess only people with school-age kids would know that.

 

[Pamela Jo]

Thanks for posting, Pamela, that's really interesting. I watched the first Avatar at the cinema when it came out, and did wince a lot, as the way the tribespeople were depicted did seem stereotypical. I liked the way the army were depicted, though. It was a nice antidote to films like Top Gun.

As for this: "Of course, the history books call this conflict “Custer’s Last Stand,” because it’s a (previously unwritten) rule that the white man must be at the center of the narrative kids learn in U.S. schools."

UK schools, too. The history I learned in school was totally white-centric and all about men. (The only interesting historical female figures who got a look-in were Queen Elizabeth 1st, Queen Victoria, and Mary, Queen of Scots.) Things may have changed significantly, over the last few decades? I guess only people with school-age kids would know that.

I dont think so. Canadian First Nation kids get mocked for their hair and have it forcibly cut. Textbooks in the US have been controlled by evangelical conservatives in Texas since the 1970's. I have my grandmother's notes for when she taught in a one-room schoolhouse and they are very insightful about slavery abolition being first included in the Constitution by Jefferson then crossed out in order to get the Declaration of Independence signed. Reminds me very much of the Irish Civil War following the compromise treaty with England. My grandmother was a blue-stocking and worked as a schoolteacher until she turned 28 and was forced to quit by the state. No woman could work as a teacher past that age. She included many books and notes about women in history in her studies-which would be considered far too difficult for children today. Eighth-grade kids were doing work that would be community college or even above now. The Americans who fought in WW2 were taught by women like her. An 8th grade education had enough physics, math, history, literature to reinvent civilisation. I think in the rural and farming communities women were so necessary they were taken at face-value. There was far more respect and admiration for the feminine there than I've seen in industrial settings. But the irony is that history taught in US schools was far more inclusive before the 1950's.


I have books citing the eyewitness accounts of the Indian side of things at the Battle of the Greasy Grass. It is very interesting. Libby Custer and the idealisation of "Laydies" by Victorians built a lot of the Custer mystique. The book I'm trying to get written is a gothic horror set in Fort Larned near where I grew up in Kansas. In the 1870's Custer began the Indian Wars there. There was a concentration camp at Ft Larned for the Northern Cheyenne women and children taken hostage after the massacre at Washita. Custer married a Cheyenne woman and probably had a son by her. It's why Custer's body was not mutilated. He was family.

 

[Hannah F]

When I was a kid, I honestly thought the soldier was General Custard.

 

[Peyton Stafford]

Here is a resource to find sensitivity readers:

https://www.writingdiversely.com/directoryhttps://www.writingdiversely.com/directory

 

[Pamela Jo]

When I was a kid, I honestly thought the soldier was General Custard.

I had a college class mate who thought guerrilla warfare was based on gorillas going at it. Like in Tarzan.

 

[Pamela Jo]

Old definition of Chutzpah. Guy who ax murdered his whole family asks for clemency because he is an orphan. New definition: Ontario says ‘colonization’ costs mean it does not owe First Nations billions

 

[CarolMS]

This is an addendum. Just as an aside Chase Iron Eyes daughter was groomed, and seduced by an actor who participated in the Standing Rock protest. He has reasons to distrust. Reservation Dogs would not have gotten off the ground wo Taiki Waititi-long may he live.

Dear Pamela,

Since its beginning, Hollywood has loved telling stories about Native people. Historically, the western genre relied on casting us as antagonists, the bad guys causing trouble for the heroes of manifest destiny. The protagonist, of course, was often played by noted racist John Wayne. Worse, the badly stereotyped Native characters in these early movies and television shows were also usually played by white actors in redface — makeup designed to make them look like real “Injuns.”

Over the years, we began to see revisionist westerns, in which the storytelling “evolved” to portray the Native man as the noble savage, ignorant of western ways but inherently good. Our hero (think Dustin Hoffman in “Little Big Man” or Kevin Costner in “Dances with Wolves”) might side with Natives and perform heroic acts as our white savior. Unfortunately, now in 2023, not much has changed. Over the past months, “Avatar: the Way of Water” and “Yellowstone” have once again profited mightily — as the most successful movie and show, respectively, in America — off Indigenous stories. So today, I encourage you to read this interview I recently gave to CNBC to talk about why all of this matters and what should be done about it.

In “Avatar: The Way of Water,” non-Indigenous actors play roles clearly written to convey Indigeneity.

Among the biggest issues present in the Avatar franchise: non-Indigenous actors play characters from Indigenous cultures. Kate Winslet, for instance, is a wonderful performer, but is she really the right choice to play the matriarch of the reef clan? Because Pandora, the world portrayed in the Avatar movies, is an alien one mainly rendered through computer-generated imagery, I’m guessing that director James Cameron thought it was OK to cast whoever he wanted. Unfortunately, he’s giving us the same old white savior narrative, this time in space, and now we’ve exchanged redface for blueface.

There’s no doubt that Cameron based his story on real Indigenous struggle. He admitted it in a 2010 interview with the Guardian, saying he was inspired by my Lakota ancestors who faced the onslaught of the United States’ westward expansion during the 1800s. “This was a driving force for me in the writing of Avatar,” Cameron said. “I couldn’t help but think that if they [the Lakota] had had a time-window and they could see the future… and they could see their kids committing suicide at the highest suicide rates in the nation… because they were hopeless and they were a dead-end society — which is what is happening now — they would have fought a lot harder.”

As you know, we are not a “dead-end society.” We’re still here and still struggling to maintain our cultures — which do, as he portrays in his films, prioritize life in harmony with our natural surroundings. We could use Cameron’s help in this regard, not his criticism. I’ll also point out that we could not have “fought harder.” We won several military victories over the U.S. during those years, despite being outgunned and outmanned. No one can ignore our decimation of General George Armstrong Custer’s 7th Cavalry at the Battle of Greasy Grass. Of course, the history books call this conflict “Custer’s Last Stand,” because it’s a (previously unwritten) rule that the white man must be at the center of the narrative kids learn in U.S. schools.

It’s long past time for the history books, Cameron, and other artists and educators to portray Native stories in the right way. It isn’t just about representation, it’s about true agency. Have us in the writers’ room or at least consulting, center Native characters in our own stories, and make sure Indigenous actors play Indigenous roles. Of late, television has begun to do a better job. The recently canceled “Rutherford Falls” is one excellent example, as is Hulu’s “Reservation Dogs,” which got picked up for a third season and deserves Emmys for its second. When Native writers and actors are given seats at the table, our stories resonate with truth, depth, and gravitas — and that’s a win for everyone.

Wopila tanka — thank you for listening!
Chase Iron Eyes
Co-Director and Lead Counsel
The Lakota People’s Law Project







Lakota People's Law Project
547 South 7th Street #149
Bismarck, ND 58504-5859

Thank you, @Pamela Jo, for posting this. Minnesota is the homeland of the Lakota Sioux, or, sadly, it once was, until it was taken from them. I grew up with a very naive and, unfortunately, typical knowledge of both their current presence and their history, but with the emergence of AIM (the American Indian Movement) in the late 1960s and early 1970s, I became much more aware. And then in 1970 I read Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee by Dee Brown. I've never forgotten that book. I cried as I read parts of it. Curiously, or coincidentally, I just today was reminded of it when a fellow whose tweets I follow on Twitter--@LakotaMan1--posted about it. I think it was adapted for a made-for-television movie, too.

Thinking of the Canadian First Nation's indigenous people, did anyone watch the first Netflix season of the Inspector Gamache series adapted from Louise Penny's delightful novels? Unfortunately, whoever wrote the screen adaptation for the show did a terrible job, so it didn't live up to the quality of the Louise Penny books at all. BUT the focus on the plight and activism of Canada's indigenous people was a significant part of the program, and it included First Nation people in the cast. That was good to see.

 

[CarolMS]

Old definition of Chutzpah. Guy who ax murdered his whole family asks for clemency because he is an orphan. New definition: Ontario says ‘colonization’ costs mean it does not owe First Nations billions

They need an emoticon for disgusted. Disappointed and sad didn't quite make it. I'd laugh, but this is so pathetic--and too often true.

 

[CarolMS]

@Pamela Jo and @Peyton Stafford, you are so right to point out the need for writers to think about how we present POC and other marginalized communities. I have connected with a few writers I know who are black or bi-racial and arranged for them to do a sensitivity read of a few scenes in my novel which include either some black musicians or a reference to black people. Since my novel is historical, taking place in the late 1960s, I had to research the demographics, attitudes, business policies, terminology and everything else needed to both accurately and sensitively reflect the scene's dynamics. There are only a few scenes where race comes up, but I know it's important that I portray them correctly. I did have a critical response from one young editor with a literary magazine I submitted my first pages to a few years ago, not for publication but for a critique, which they offered at minimal expense. On what was then my first page, I had my character at the Minneapolis airport, about to leave for San Francisco. I said she "handed her suitcase to the Negro skycap" with the intent of starting to give readers a heads-up that the story took place at an earlier time, but the young (I'm sure, and no doubt with a fresh MFA in her pocket) accused me (no kidding) of being racist and didn't even complete the editing properly. She had no idea that "Negro" was, in the 1960s, the most respectful way to refer to black Americans. "Colored" was also accepted, but the rest of the terms available were needless to say unspeakable. The term "black" was actually used for the first time in 1969 by Bobby Seal who was forming the Black Panthers in Oakland, California, and did not get wider usage for several years. "African-American" was not used until the 1980s. I researched it and was trying to be accurate. I did just delete the word and simply use "skycap," but I was irritated enough with her insulting email to me to suggest she listen to some of Martin Luther King's speeches. As for the research, which always turns up fun little tidbits, I also learned that the airlines, like the passenger railroads, actually had policies that they hire only "Negroes" to be baggage handlers. I remember always seeing that was so, and taking it for granted.

 

[Pamela Jo]

@Pamela Jo and @Peyton Stafford, you are so right to point out the need for writers to think about how we present POC and other marginalized communities. I have connected with a few writers I know who are black or bi-racial and arranged for them to do a sensitivity read of a few scenes in my novel which include either some black musicians or a reference to black people. Since my novel is historical, taking place in the late 1960s, I had to research the demographics, attitudes, business policies, terminology and everything else needed to both accurately and sensitively reflect the scene's dynamics. There are only a few scenes where race comes up, but I know it's important that I portray them correctly. I did have a critical response from one young editor with a literary magazine I submitted my first pages to a few years ago, not for publication but for a critique, which they offered at minimal expense. On what was then my first page, I had my character at the Minneapolis airport, about to leave for San Francisco. I said she "handed her suitcase to the Negro skycap" with the intent of starting to give readers a heads-up that the story took place at an earlier time, but the young (I'm sure, and no doubt with a fresh MFA in her pocket) accused me (no kidding) of being racist and didn't even complete the editing properly. She had no idea that "Negro" was, in the 1960s, the most respectful way to refer to black Americans. "Colored" was also accepted, but the rest of the terms available were needless to say unspeakable. The term "black" was actually used for the first time in 1969 by Bobby Seal who was forming the Black Panthers in Oakland, California, and did not get wider usage for several years. "African-American" was not used until the 1980s. I researched it and was trying to be accurate. I did just delete the word and simply use "skycap," but I was irritated enough with her insulting email to me to suggest she listen to some of Martin Luther King's speeches. As for the research, which always turns up fun little tidbits, I also learned that the airlines, like the passenger railroads, actually had policies that they hire only "Negroes" to be baggage handlers. I remember always seeing that was so, and taking it for granted.

I dont blame you for being annoyed. One of my favourite books is Anya by Susan Fromberg Schaeffer. The things criticised in women's writing,complexity in description and detail, are done so well. Turns out the writer spent hundreds of hours interviewing a holocaust surviver to recreate the world before and after the Nazis came. On Good Reads it's slammed by young readers for disrespect towards holocaust survivers. One reader was especially angered by this. In the book Anya has to get a certificate of health from a doctor to be allowed to emigrate to the US. The Dr tells her, that her breasts are still beautiful despite her starvation and she enjoys the compliment. To me that says a lot about women of that generation and women's experience in general. Anya knew that it was her blonde beauty that meant her survival. There is a poignancy there that hits me in the heart. Something has gone wrong in US education that there is no respect for complexity in the human experience. I blame teaching to the test. There is one right answer in a multiple choice-pick it and job done. No thinking. As one black musician proved Hip Hop became about gangs and violence because WHITE suburban buyers drove the market. They preferred rap be about killing cops and therefore that became the black experience in music sold to white buyers.

 

[CarolMS]

I dont blame you for being annoyed. One of my favourite books is Anya by Susan Fromberg Schaeffer. The things criticised in women's writing,complexity in description and detail, are done so well. Turns out the writer spent hundreds of hours interviewing a holocaust surviver to recreate the world before and after the Nazis came. On Good Reads it's slammed by young readers for disrespect towards holocaust survivers. One reader was especially angered by this. In the book Anya has to get a certificate of health from a doctor to be allowed to emigrate to the US. The Dr tells her, that her breasts are still beautiful despite her starvation and she enjoys the compliment. To me that says a lot about women of that generation and women's experience in general. Anya knew that it was her blonde beauty that meant her survival. There is a poignancy there that hits me in the heart. Something has gone wrong in US education that there is no respect for complexity in the human experience. I blame teaching to the test. There is one right answer in a multiple choice-pick it and job done. No thinking. One irony of civil rights was that it ended a lot of black businesses when people could shop anywhere.

I'm with you. Too often I'm finding a lot of younger people have very superficial understanding of others unlike themselves and little if any awareness of differences between then and now. I think it's a partly a failure in education, perhaps also a manifestation of a faster-paced world, and too little healthy socialization as they depend on "devices" for all forms of contact and information. I've found younger readers have a really hard time grasping some aspects of my novel's main character's issues, responding judgmentally or even with disbelief because they are unable to view my character other than through the limited perspective of their own era and world. I'm having to work very hard to write to overcome that.

 

[Pamela Jo]

I'm with you. Too often I'm finding a lot of younger people have very superficial understanding of others unlike themselves and little if any awareness of differences between then and now. I think it's a partly a failure in education, perhaps also a manifestation of a faster-paced world, and too little healthy socialization as they depend on "devices" for all forms of contact and information. I've found younger readers have a really hard time grasping some aspects of my novel's main character's issues, responding judgmentally or even with disbelief because they are unable to view my character other than through the limited perspective of their own era and world. I'm having to work very hard to write to overcome that.

That is the reporters skill. Writing stuff an audience doesn't really want to know in such a way that they still read it. Dunning Kruger effect. That is what I was looking for. The Dunning-Kruger Effect (Or, Dealing with Author Despair Syndrome). I was obsessed with Greek tragedy in High School. Because of the depth of emotions. The plays were my textbooks of all the ways humans could feck up and feel about fecking up. I think teenagers need the humanities to open up the whole world of emotions that they are capable of. It's the sole point of English class, IMO. True catharsis.View attachment 14831

 

[CarolMS]

Hey, @Pamela Jo, I just opened your last post responding in the thread going on and a weird image suddenly popped onto the screen in the middle of your post. Something labeled the History Hustle with a photo of Russian cosmonaut Yuri Gagarin. I shut down my computer and opened it again to see if it was still there, and it is. Are you seeing it? This kind of stuff concerns me. I totally not tech savvy, but it definitely is something that shouldn't be there. Any thoughts? Maybe Jonny or Pete should know about it. Anyway, I'm going to bed now. Hopefully it's not a virus that's going to eat up my computer contents. I had that happen once. Disastrous.

 

[Pamela Jo]

Hey, @Pamela Jo, I just opened your last post responding in the thread going on and a weird image suddenly popped onto the screen in the middle of your post. Something labeled the History Hustle with a photo of Russian cosmonaut Yuri Gagarin. I shut down my computer and opened it again to see if it was still there, and it is. Are you seeing it? This kind of stuff concerns me. I totally not tech savvy, but it definitely is something that shouldn't be there. Any thoughts? Maybe Jonny or Pete should know about it. Anyway, I'm going to bed now. Hopefully it's not a virus that's going to eat up my computer contents. I had that happen once. Disastrous.

Sorry, it shouldn't be so scary. I put it there. It's a meme from a history prof about Yuri Gagarin who he said his students should know instead of the Kardashians. All gone now.

 

[Pamela Jo]

Thank you, @Pamela Jo, for posting this. Minnesota is the homeland of the Lakota Sioux, or, sadly, it once was, until it was taken from them. I grew up with a very naive and, unfortunately, typical knowledge of both their current presence and their history, but with the emergence of AIM (the American Indian Movement) in the late 1960s and early 1970s, I became much more aware. And then in 1970 I read Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee by Dee Brown. I've never forgotten that book. I cried as I read parts of it. Curiously, or coincidentally, I just today was reminded of it when a fellow whose tweets I follow on Twitter--@LakotaMan1--posted about it. I think it was adapted for a made-for-television movie, too.

Thinking of the Canadian First Nation's indigenous people, did anyone watch the first Netflix season of the Inspector Gamache series adapted from Louise Penny's delightful novels? Unfortunately, whoever wrote the screen adaptation for the show did a terrible job, so it didn't live up to the quality of the Louise Penny books at all. BUT the focus on the plight and activism of Canada's indigenous people was a significant part of the program, and it included First Nation people in the cast. That was good to see.

I did happen to see that Carol. The artwork was incredible. I can recommend Reservation Dogs. Using all native actors, the writing is superb. We came to know many people from Cheyenne River Rez and Pine Ridge through preserving Spanish Mustangs. There are many efforts to preserve tribal culture along with the horses. The Irish remind me a lot of the Lakota. Same suicide and drinking/drug problems in the young. American history is heartbreaking and so inevitable - it is Greek Tragedy. Think of Native cultures as Trojan and the immigrants coming over maimed by their own traumas and desperate for land, as the Greeks.

 

[Pamela Jo]

I did happen to see that Carol. The artwork was incredible. I can recommend Reservation Dogs. Using all native actors, the writing is superb. We came to know many people from Cheyenne River Rez and Pine Ridge through preserving Spanish Mustangs. There are many efforts to preserve tribal culture along with the horses. The Irish remind me a lot of the Lakota. Same suicide and drinking/drug problems in the young. American history is heartbreaking and so inevitable - it is Greek Tragedy. Think of Native cultures as Trojan and the immigrants coming over maimed by their own traumas and desperate for land, as the Greeks.

Haskell Indian College is in Lawrence, Ks where I went to university. One day I naively wandered into an Indian bar where over the course of the afternoon, 3 Indian girls explained to me conclusively why it is INDIAN in AIM. It's your fucking language and
your fucking word, own it and everything it means. Ive never been so well schooled in my life. There is an indie film about the Indian version of what happened at Pine Ridge starring the same woman who plays Mary Magdalene in the 70's Jesus Christ Superstar. It's worth watching if you can still find it.

But the whole negro, coloured, black thing still exists in what word to use when talking about indigenous peoples in the US. I like First Nations but considering the huge disrespect and maltreatment of the Canadian government-it just demonstrates the point of Indian. Actions speaks louder than words. If you are going to treat me like an Indian then dont try to pretty your actions up with language that makes you feel better about yourself.

If you want to sign this it is a follow on from the protest to Hollywood. Join me in asking James Cameron and Hollywood for better Indigenous representation and agency.

 

[Pamela Jo]

. Reservation Dogs clip

 

[CarolMS]

Sorry, it shouldn't be so scary. I put it there. It's a meme from a history prof about Yuri Gagarin who he said his students should know instead of the Kardashians. All gone now.

Ah, glad it was you who embedded it. And I agree with the history professor. (I'm also a old enough to remember Yuri Gagarin. Makes me feel 'historic.")

 

[CarolMS]

I did happen to see that Carol. The artwork was incredible. I can recommend Reservation Dogs. Using all native actors, the writing is superb. We came to know many people from Cheyenne River Rez and Pine Ridge through preserving Spanish Mustangs. There are many efforts to preserve tribal culture along with the horses. The Irish remind me a lot of the Lakota. Same suicide and drinking/drug problems in the young. American history is heartbreaking and so inevitable - it is Greek Tragedy. Think of Native cultures as Trojan and the immigrants coming over maimed by their own traumas and desperate for land, as the Greeks.

I agree with you about Greek tragedies. They're the stories that forever play out in the lives of human beings. The ancient Greek's incredibly perceptive and nuanced understanding of the depths of human experience is unparalleled, at least in the Western world. And you're right about humanities studies. It used to be that most American undergraduate degrees were in "liberal arts," which included the humanities (or some degrees were in the sciences), with declared majors in a particular area. Now it seems the majors are more often than not almost the whole focus, unless I'm assuming wrongly. To me, the specialization should come in post-graduate work, while undergraduate studies--not to mention high school education--should be focused on gaining a broad spectrum of knowledge and learning how to think critically as well as creatively.

Re: the labeling thing . . . it's interesting that the preferred names for the indigenous people in both Canada (First Nations) and the U,S, (Native Americans) now refer to "first people," yet except for some superficial band-aids, the changes are still mostly in name only. It's all just words, as it always has been. Maybe some baby steps, though, and we should be glad for that. Including the teaching of pertinent history at all levels of education, from primary school to college, would help. Duh.

It sounds like you saw the film version of Dee's Wounded Knee story. I missed it, only read the book. I just learned about the film the other day on Twitter, and haven't known about Reservation Dogs either, so thanks. When it comes to such programs I'm afraid I'm in the dark, not having had a TV for years. I've no streaming services either,--can't afford them--though now and then I check in via a friend's Netflix (I know, naughty) or watch something on YouTube. Because my health and disability stuff gets in the way of my accomplishing half what I used to be able to do in a day, I just don't have time for it, and know I miss a lot. But then, being a news junkie as well as obsessive-compulsive about learning about writing and publishing, I admit I watch or read too much online (or craft books) when I should actually be writing/revising or reading novels! Duh again.

Speaking of getting to work, I think it's time I get to it. I have a big and challenging revision of my novel to do.

 

[Pamela Jo]

Very good luck on the novel. Here's the funny thing. My grandmother was one of the first women to go to a teacher's college and teach in a one room school house. I have her notes and books. No woman could teach past the age of 27 in Kansas at the time. But she taught about the Indian wars, and slavery. A full history, plus Latin and Greek which makes sense because learning French or even Spanish in the middle of the prairie would not have ended well. I think it was teachers like her that meant the US rejected fascism. And of course FDR and his social democracy. Honestly I only use my computer for media. It's all grist for the mill. I wouldn't get as much done if I didnt have that search engine right there to answer every Q for me -like a genie. Good luck on the novel. Have a breakthru today!

 

[CarolMS]

Hello @Pamela Jo! Your story about your grandmother--how interesting! Honestly, Pamela, I wish I had the time to keep up our conversations at a steady pace. I'm thoroughly enjoying connecting with you! But unfortunately I've got health and disability issues that are really getting in the way of my getting things done. Especially my novel revision. So frustrating! I'm frankly worried I'll be gone before I'm done (I have heart failure, among other problems). Dang. But I do hope to gab some more with you, to the degree I can. How did you end up in Ireland, by the way? And do you go by Pamela? Or Pam? Or....?

 

[Katie-Ellen]

My father was Irish. His parents were from Dublin and County Kildare, and County Mayo way back before that. But I have never yet visited Ireland while my maternal side is Northumbrian. The Brigantes, likely. Such a mixed story for so many of us once we start looking into it. I have a friend who was adopted here off a reservation in Canada, and she is Ojibwe. Plucked away, and on the one hand, she told me she has almost certainly had a better life because of it. Her mother's story was not a happy one. But still. She is always searching for something she can't quite name. And this quest has made her a powerful poet.

And here was Putin recently, telling the first nation peoples of the Americas that they are the brothers of the Russians because Mongolia and the land bridge. Much as I hate to agree with that personage about anything, there is an interesting observation there.

Who knows. I was walking into work one day, a long time ago, into a museum where I used to work before I became ill, and an old man I didn't know shouted across at me from the reception desk, what was my name? I told him and said, why do you ask? And he said, 'well, Katie-Ellen Kearns. Did you know, you are a Pict?'

He said it most emphatically. And I said, well, how very interesting, and no. No. I didn't.

I'm currently reading Stallion Gate by Martin Cruz Smith, the author of 'Gorky Park,' and the terrifying 'Nightwing'. He has created an-indigenous-almost superhero in 'Stallion Gate.'

I haven't as yet come across any adverse reaction, unlike the 'cultural appropriation issue' furore that has- whether justly or not, I'm not presuming to comment- attended the very successful Canadian novelist Joseph Boyden. Though Martin Cruz Smith makes no claim himself to indigenous heritage, while not sidestepping the issue within the context of the story itself.



Stallion Gate





(Pueblo Indian) "Sgt. Joe Pena is the central character; indeed, he is the novel's only center. He connects episodes of science and romance, jazz and boxing, mysticism and technology, humor and melodrama; he connects the fiction and the history. As such, he is, as reviewers noted, overburdened. He is too excellent: He was an eighth-ranked heavyweight; he played piano with the jazz greats; he was in the Philippines with MacArthur, and escaped. On July 15, 1945, he outboxes an opponent, uses $50,000 to buy a jazz club, ensures that Ben and Roberto escape to Mexico, and then, as the scientists count down to the first explosion of an atomic bomb at 5:30 am on July 16, Joe wrestles with and kills his nemesis, Capt. Augustino, atop the tower at Trinity. And yet, despite the serendipity of his encounters, Joe emerges as a credible character, capable of carrying the thematic burden which Smith has placed upon him...SOURCE

This description in Publisher's Weekly