What was your most valuable lesson?

[James Marinero]

I'm still a writing novice and learning every day with every para - and every visit to Litopia. I was just wondering what the most valuable lesson was that you learned in your first book (or two)?

FWIW mine was learning (almost) how to tell a story using dialogue as opposed to straight narrative. That was after I wrote my first couple of chapters and realised the problems with 'voice'. I'd never considered it! [bloody amateur -Ed]

 

[Jason Byrne]

I would say... I learned from my first twenty-five or so how not to write something God-awful. Dialogue, narrative voice, individual style, those are things it took me a long time to feel like I wielded confidently and competently. @Nicole Wilson has a quote very pertinent, I'll have to go find...

 

[Jason Byrne]

Here it is!
"You know what I did after I wrote my first novel? I shut up and wrote twenty-three more." -Michael Connelly, Castle

That, and I revised the bad stuff about 30-50 times apiece, every time polishing that turd a little smoother...

 

[Karen Gray]

Um...... There's probably loads but I'm going to tip my hat to @Jason Byrne and say I learned about uncertain dashes

Lol Joking. Well you did teach me that, but learning on my own, um... That I like to repeat myself... a LOT. How to creatively paraphrase myself perhaps?

 

[Jennifer Stone]

I wrote my first ms with no idea, really, how to even write a book, I thought editing and formatting was done by the publisher and I'd never even heard of a story arc or contemplated character development. I just wrote. So the biggest lesson I've learnt is the importance of a community like this, filled with more experienced souls to guide me.
Well done you lucky souls!

 

[Karen Gray]

I wrote my first ms with no idea, really, how to even write a book, I thought editing and formatting was done by the publisher and I'd never even heard of a story arc or contemplated character development. I just wrote. So the biggest lesson I've learnt is the importance of a community like this, filled with more experienced souls to guide me.
Well done you lucky souls!

You need less guidance than you think, Mrs! And we are all learning, no matter how successful we are or end up being. There is always something new to learn.

 

[Nicole Wilson]

I wrote several short stories before writing my first novel, so I came into it with some writing experience, but the biggest things I learned from that first novel:
- Notecard every scene before writing. This is a personal preference; not everyone outlines, and not everyone outlines as detailed as I do, but I find writing MUCH easier if I know exactly where the story's going.
- Don't feel like you have to stick 100% to those notecards. Allow yourself some creativity. If you find another thing to go wrong in your character's world, do it. You can always modify the notecards.
- Do your character profile BEFORE writing the book. You don't have to answer everything about them, but have a general idea about who your characters are before you start.
- My biggest advice: BACK EVERYTHING UP. I had the biggest scare of my writing career when I was halfway through my novel and I lost my entire stack of scene cards (because they were handwritten on index cards). I was lucky enough to find them, but it would have been awful to have to do all that plotting again.

At the risk of self-promoting, I did write two blog posts about what I learned from my first and second novels. Might be worth a look.

http://www.nicolewilsonauthor.com/news/what-ive-learned-from-writing-my-first-draft/
http://www.nicolewilsonauthor.com/news/what-i-learned-from-my-second-manuscript/

 

[Karen Gray]

I wrote several short stories before writing my first novel, so I came into it with some writing experience, but the biggest things I learned from that first novel:
- Notecard every scene before writing. This is a personal preference; not everyone outlines, and not everyone outlines as detailed as I do, but I find writing MUCH easier if I know exactly where the story's going.
- Don't feel like you have to stick 100% to those notecards. Allow yourself some creativity. If you find another thing to go wrong in your character's world, do it. You can always modify the notecards.
- Do your character profile BEFORE writing the book. You don't have to answer everything about them, but have a general idea about who your characters are before you start.
- My biggest advice: BACK EVERYTHING UP. I had the biggest scare of my writing career when I was halfway through my novel and I lost my entire stack of scene cards (because they were handwritten on index cards). I was lucky enough to find them, but it would have been awful to have to do all that plotting again.

At the risk of self-promoting, I did write two blog posts about what I learned from my first and second novels. Might be worth a look.

http://www.nicolewilsonauthor.com/news/what-ive-learned-from-writing-my-first-draft/
http://www.nicolewilsonauthor.com/news/what-i-learned-from-my-second-manuscript/

Brilliant andvice there

 

[David Steele]

Lesson's I've learned the hard way:

Don't just read everything you write. Read it out loud
You have to delete some really good bits for the sake of brevity
Get used to people not being interested
Finish stuff

 

[Karen Gray]

Finish stuff

Amen to that

 

[Bernard Stacey]

After the shock of discovering such things as 'show v tell', POV, and story arcs, I then learnt that when you think what you've written is brilliant, it is more than likely total pigswill.
Acknowledging this tragedy, not giving up, and learning from it was probably the most useful lesson all round. Litopia 1.0 was instrumental in teaching me much of this - no other writing site came close - which is why I'm so pleased to have found Version 2.

 

[Emurelda]

A dear friend of mine sent me a Groupon link for a heavily discounted writing course (Writestorybooksforchildren.com). There I opened my eyes to an alluring way to write for children compared to what I had been doing or rather telling a tale rather than showing. Such a simple paradigm shift that required habit to achieve.

Since then I engulfed as much as I could 'out there' until I dared to call myself a writer and decided to join a forum for the first time, this one.

Am constantly learning and adapting to different styles, see which fits, I am now working through the night learning from a nifty little book called 'The Elements of Style'. And taking to pieces each chapter of my book to get it to a satisfactory level for me at least. I just never realised how much fun learning to write would be, and here I am still learning and enjoying the process. That might be the biggest lesson learnt yet.

 

[Emurelda]

I wrote my first ms with no idea, really, how to even write a book, I thought editing and formatting was done by the publisher and I'd never even heard of a story arc or contemplated character development. I just wrote. So the biggest lesson I've learnt is the importance of a community like this, filled with more experienced souls to guide me.
Well done you lucky souls!

This rings so true for me too. That's exactly what I thought. That the editing would be done by editors waiting for grand ideas to fall on their desks.

 

[Alistair Roberts]

Well James I was in a similar boat. A short story became the first chapter of the first novel, with not one word of speech! Can't tell you how many times that novel, was rewritten, maybe eight or nine times? But then I don't consider any of them to be approaching something acceptable until they have been edited / rewritten at least eight times. Plus one is always learning something around here = another edit!

 

[Amber Zade]

I'm a newbie too but I think it would be .... not to write chapter 1 over and over again.

 

[Jason Byrne]

A lot of good specific advice, here. Yesterday all I could think to say was write write write, and get better every time. Pretty much giving advice Mr. Miyagi style.


Some specific things that have serve me well —

Keep your narrative tight. Keep track of every character you ever introduced, and every possession they have. You would be surprised at the unexpected escapes you already gave your characters from a seemingly inescapable problem, about which you forgot long ago.

If you need to add an escape to a problem, also go back and add the key to doing so beforehand.

Use everything you have shown. 'They' say, "if you have a gun on the wall in act one, you'd better have fired it by act three." Take that further. Use the gun, the ring, the jacket, the painting... don't call attention to something if it doesn't turn out later to be important. When I describe a room in a dream, it so that you realize five hundred pages later the same room shows up in the waking world.

To do this, you need to keep extensive notes — about where you plan to go, what you've already finished — and read your notes for the full arc of the story, beginning to end, throughout the project, so you can keep track of your place in the story in relation to the full arc, not just what you have yet to reach. I try hard to tie the current state of the story to where it's been, as much as where it's going.

If you are out about town, and hear someone say something absolutely crazy, or you have an amazing idea, stop everything you are doing, and write it down immediately.

 

[Nicole Wilson]

Oh, and one more piece of advice: READ. Read everything you can get your hands on. And read a lot in the genre you're writing, so you can get the feel of how authors who are successful construct their stories, sentences, etc.

But also read outside your genre. Each genre has a different strong suit. Thrillers are great at pace, fantasy at worldbuilding. Examine how these stories use those strengths and cope with their weaknesses.

 

[Jason Byrne]

Not from my first book, but from my last: just about a month ago, in fact. I had already given up thinking I was a writer, and while at a convention I attend each year, I ran into some recognized professionals. I had an old copy of my last MS, the one I slaved over for the last five years.

One of them took it, spent approximately six seconds reading it, and gave what I can only describe as a derisive laugh.

It really cemented for me that, while I have loved good stories all my life, I'm not in a position to be trying to tell them myself, no matter how much "positive feedback" I've accrued over the years. It leaves a hole in my heart, but I (and everyone around me) is better off if I just stick to being a cheerleader for actual writers.

I'm not sure quite how to respond to this one, Lex... I get what you're saying, but let me ponder a moment. I know I want to say something about it.

Maybe that guy was just an asshole. You don't know. I get it that not all children can grow up to be astronauts, police officers, and fire-fighters, and somebody has to pick up the trash and scrub the toilets, but if you like to write do it! Be the one maybe someday laughing at him. Or not. But it sure as hell won't happen if you let them get to you, and you don't do it in the first place.

 

[Nicole Wilson]

Not from my first book, but from my last: just about a month ago, in fact. I had already given up thinking I was a writer, and while at a convention I attend each year, I ran into some recognized professionals. I had an old copy of my last MS, the one I slaved over for the last five years.

One of them took it, spent approximately six seconds reading it, and gave what I can only describe as a derisive laugh.

It really cemented for me that, while I have loved good stories all my life, I'm not in a position to be trying to tell them myself, no matter how much "positive feedback" I've accrued over the years. It leaves a hole in my heart, but I (and everyone around me) is better off if I just stick to being a cheerleader for actual writers.

I'm not sure quite how to respond to this one, Lex... I get what you're saying, but let me ponder a moment. I know I want to say something about it.

Maybe that guy was just an asshole. You don't know. I get it that not all children can grow up to be astronauts, police officers, and fire-fighters, but if you like to write do it! Be the one maybe someday laughing at him. Or not. But it sure as hell won't happen if you don't do it in the first place.

Thanks, Jason. I was sitting here thinking, "I need to say something to this" but I had no clue what.

Lex, don't let that one guy ruin this for you. You are on Litopia, which means you're obviously willing to put some effort into your stories and that's more than half the people out there can say. If you want to write, then doggone it, write. Even if you decide to do it just for yourself, but you make that decision; don't let that be dictated by the jerk who laughed at you.

 

[Jason Byrne]

Thanks, Jason. I was sitting here thinking, "I need to say something to this" but I had no clue what.

Lex, don't let that one guy ruin this for you. You are on Litopia, which means you're obviously willing to put some effort into your stories and that's more than half the people out there can say. If you want to write, then doggone it, write. Even if you decide to do it just for yourself, but you make that decision; don't let that be dictated by the jerk who laughed at you.

RURRUR!

 

[Alistair Roberts]

Lex, I will add to what they have already said, and I do recall your last post a few months back. I think if you spent 5 years of one novel, you wasted time, in that you weren't writing others (I presume). Point is, the majority aren't going to like anything, the odds say only 0.01% get picked up and published. BUT the real point is, if you like writing, then WRITE. You don't get better thrashing a novel to death trying to please everyone, you get better by writing more. It always pays to put a novel down, and start another one, then later maybe, come back to it with fresh eyes. If you stare at it too long you'll go crazy with frustration.

In short, put the past behind you as well as the idiots, and do what you presumably want to do, write. And keep writing. If you have the ideas, let them come out, don't bottle them up or it will rip your guts out eventually

 

[Emurelda]

Lex, I will add to what they have already said, and I do recall your last post a few months back. I think if you spent 5 years of one novel, you wasted time, in that you weren't writing others (I presume). Point is, the majority aren't going to like anything, the odds say only 0.01% get picked up and published. BUT the real point is, if you like writing, then WRITE. You don't get better thrashing a novel to death trying to please everyone, you get better by writing more. It always pays to put a novel down, and start another one, then later maybe, come back to it with fresh eyes. If you stare at it too long you'll go crazy with frustration.

In short, put the pass behind you as well as the idiots, and do what you presumably want to do, write. And keep writing. If you have the ideas, let them come out, don't bottle them up or it will rip your guts out eventually

I'm going to bottle this.

 

[Alistair Roberts]

I won't fit in a bottle!

 

[Emurelda]

Not from my first book, but from my last: just about a month ago, in fact. I had already given up thinking I was a writer, and while at a convention I attend each year, I ran into some recognized professionals. I had an old copy of my last MS, the one I slaved over for the last five years.

One of them took it, spent approximately six seconds reading it, and gave what I can only describe as a derisive laugh.

It really cemented for me that, while I have loved good stories all my life, I'm not in a position to be trying to tell them myself, no matter how much "positive feedback" I've accrued over the years. It leaves a hole in my heart, but I (and everyone around me) is better off if I just stick to being a cheerleader for actual writers.

Sorry you feel like that. In fact I don't blame you to be honest.

I have had a similar experience with some people who wouldn't even look at me 'cos I was apparently beneath them during Toy Fair exhibitions (we were all exhibiting), and for many years I have tried to get my one brand that I believe in 'out there'...it might sound like I was doing something different to what you are or were trying to achieve with your novel but it is the same thing in that we are all trying to get the right person to love our work enough to help us get it out there.

I can't tell you whether my story has a happy ending, so to speak, but I can tell you that it I believe in it very strongly. And if I don't try my hardest and keep going I will always wonder 'what if?'.

If you love it enough you'll find you can't stop trying. But I do appreciate the relentless dead ends that puts one off. So awful that someone can mock another's hard work. That is just sad...but it happens to everyone as far as I am concerned and so usually give them a stern glare whilst inside it hurts.

 

[Emurelda]

I won't fit in a bottle!

You sure you're not a genie...

 

[Emurelda]

I actually have an ongoing problem with someone threatening me legally if i don't include them in my project. They used bullying tactics which gave me nightmares until i stood my ground. There are some desperate people out there...

 

[Nicole Wilson]

I actually have an ongoing problem with someone threatening me legally if i don't include them in my project. They used bullying tactics which gave me nightmares until i stood my ground. There are some desperate people out there...

Um, what? Goodness. Were they trying to get their name in the credits or in the book/game?

 

[Jason Byrne]

I actually have an ongoing problem with someone threatening me legally if i don't include them in my project. They used bullying tactics which gave me nightmares until i stood my ground. There are some desperate people out there...

When I was a child I had an older boy threaten to tell my parents on me, if I didn't give him the keys to my house. Neither of these make any sense. Some people are just plain old everyday crazy.

By the by, he actually did call my house and leave a message telling on me, for not giving him my house keys. Crazy.

 

[Emurelda]

Um, what? Goodness. Were they trying to get their name in the credits or in the book/game?

It's a long story but they demanded i include them in the company which i rejected. Thats the short of it. Of course there are two sides to every story but they refused to accept and respect my decision. Now they are hanging the legal threat over my head hoping that the brand becomes successful and hence worthwhile for them to pursue later.

I found out that they have bullied another lady. But having this threat was a nightmare for many months until i spoke to several solicitors who told me the judge would throw his case out as it is pointless.

 

[Nicole Wilson]

It's a long story but they demanded i include them in the company which i rejected. Thats the short of it. Of course there are two sides to every story but they refused to accept and respect my decision. Now they are hanging the legal threat over my head hoping that the brand becomes successful and hence worthwhile for them to pursue later.

I found out that they have bullied another lady. But having this threat was a nightmare for many months until i spoke to several solicitors who told me the judge would throw his case out as it is pointless.

Good, because that's just awful!