Help Please! We need more forums !

[Bloo]

After watching a couple of new members trying to interact with the Colony, I've reached a conclusion...

PREFIXES SUCK !!!

Hear me out. prefixes are great for highlighting disparate subjects within a forum. The Lab is a great example.

However, prefixes are miserable when used as a substitute for individual forums. Café Life has become a catch-all for nearly everything. While Welcome, Blogs, Book Club, Help, et-cetera clog up the Café, other fun threads get pushed down into oblivion.

Meanwhile...Topics like Book Club and Welcome are reduced to prefixes when they really deserve the exposure of a dedicated forum. At the same time, those subjects are deprived a prefix option only a forum can accommodate. Wouldn't it be great to include prefixes showing geographical location in a Welcome forum? At a glance, one could see if a fellow European or African has joined the Colony.

BTW...what happened to "Newest Members"? That was a pretty cool feature that seems to have been deprecated.

Right now, there are 142 pages in Café Life. This will grow much faster since this forum is doing the job of several forums. Sure, you can filter by prefix. Yet not every post has one - and there's no guarantee the OP used a tag you'll remember.

Look...I get it's trendy and modern to use fewer forums and more prefixes/tags. Yet I feel that's a concession to the social-media crowd who value linearity over organization. The FOMO is strong. They scroll and scroll on the same page desperate not to miss the latest buzz.

Yet writers don't work that way. We want organization. Sure...there's a search function. But it's often quicker to simply scroll through recent posts on an uncluttered forum.

Finally, there's the cozy factor. Different forums have different vibes. Some of us want to relax in a place with fewer distractions. Others don't like the idea of one size fits all. Café Life is a great place, but it may not be for everyone. Under the current system, it has to be.

About that lost vibe...



There's the Book Club, where the cool kids hang out. Except here, anyone can be the cool kid. Just read a book and tell us how you feel. Unfortunately, it goes to a dead link. It's just a prefix now. And it's a bit less cool for it.

@AgentPete - please reconsider all the prefixes. They aren't a replacement for dedicated forums. I can't be the only one who feels like this.

 

[Bloo]

Also...there used to be a space where authors could show their wares (Marketplace, maybe). Anyhoo...I think it's gone now. I used to browse and sometimes purchase from there. I even left some Ammie and Goodreads reviews. If it's been deprecated to a prefix, I can't find it.

 

[RK Wallis]

Topics like Book Club and Welcome are reduced to prefixes when they really deserve the exposure of a dedicated forum.

Yes, it's harder on newcomers if it isn't obvious. We want them to feel comfortable

 

[Sedayne]

@Bloo you make an excellent point
As a recent newbie and being rubbish with social media (I couldn't manage instagram), I found the Welcome Forum invaluable. Having all the how-to guides and Directory of Critters in one place made it easy, and I was able to look at how others had introduced themselves before taking the plunge myself. I'm not sure I'd feel confident to do that now. It worked so well for me, within a week I'd upgraded to full membership.
I get the point of streamlining things, but the old way was good for me, and it makes me sad to see others struggling or frustrated.
Although I like to chip in, I still rarely (never) start a thread, and I'm sure I'm not the only writer to suffer from social (media) anxiety.

 

[AgentPete]

Thanks for the feedback, really useful. Quick responses...

However, prefixes are miserable when used as a substitute for individual forums. Café Life has become a catch-all for nearly everything. While Welcome, Blogs, Book Club, Help, et-cetera clog up the Café, other fun threads get pushed down into oblivion.

We’ve only just got prefixes working again after the massive software upgrade, so we need to give it another few weeks at least. Here’s the thinking, and yes, a major consideration underpinning the recent “streamlining” has been how easy it is for newcomers to navigate and embed themselves here.

Backstory. We are running on what is essentially still a BBS (bulletin board system) which in UI (user interface) terms dates right back to the birth of the internet. If you were dialling up via CompuServe (don’t ask me) you’d probably be able to find your way around here.

UIs have changed a huge amount since then, mostly going for a Fisher-Price-type oversimplification… garish primary colors, juvenilization of user options, etc.

I have my own issues with the underlying software we use here, and at some future point it’s possible we may move to something else, but I don’t want to “dumb down” the interface… “dumb writers” (oxymoron?) is not our demographic…

So. We’re sticking with the BBS UI for the moment, the question therefore is, prefixes in one unified forum vs multiple smaller forums?

What you describe (too many resulting threads in one centralised forum) will inevitably happen. At that point, we can spin out those prefixes with most use and turn them into their own forums. I agree with that, but I don’t think we’re at that point yet.

When will we be? Hmm, difficult to say, but I think a sure sign will be when more folk start to say what you’ve just said (always ahead of the pack, @Bloo ). It’s something I’m alert to.

Meanwhile...Topics like Book Club and Welcome are reduced to prefixes when they really deserve the exposure of a dedicated forum.

As above, I don’t disagree and accept the inevitably of that logic, but we’re not there yet.

At the same time, those subjects are deprived a prefix option only a forum can accommodate. Wouldn't it be great to include prefixes showing geographical location in a Welcome forum? At a glance, one could see if a fellow European or African has joined the Colony.

Everyone already has a “Location” in their postbit:

BUT... by popular request (i.e. you...) you can now choose to display a country flag, as well. Click on your name an choose "Country flag select":


Choose your flag, then your postbit will look like this:

BTW...what happened to "Newest Members"? That was a pretty cool feature that seems to have been deprecated.

Still there, just scroll down a bit more!

Finally, there's the cozy factor. Different forums have different vibes. Some of us want to relax in a place with fewer distractions. Others don't like the idea of one size fits all. Café Life is a great place, but it may not be for everyone. Under the current system, it has to be.

Agree with all your concerns. The pruning was necessary. Regrowth will happen, timing is the thing.

Also...there used to be a space where authors could show their wares (Marketplace, maybe). Anyhoo...I think it's gone now. I used to browse and sometimes purchase from there. I even left some Ammie and Goodreads reviews. If it's been deprecated to a prefix, I can't find it.

Was hardly used. We can bring it back, no problem, but empty forums look awful.

Yes, it's harder on newcomers if it isn't obvious. We want them to feel comfortable

Yup! At the moment, it's easy to say, "just come to CL for everything".

@Bloo you make an excellent point
As a recent newbie and being rubbish with social media (I couldn't manage instagram), I found the Welcome Forum invaluable. Having all the how-to guides and Directory of Critters in one place made it easy, and I was able to look at how others had introduced themselves before taking the plunge myself. I'm not sure I'd feel confident to do that now. It worked so well for me, within a week I'd upgraded to full membership.
I get the point of streamlining things, but the old way was good for me, and it makes me sad to see others struggling or frustrated.
Although I like to chip in, I still rarely (never) start a thread, and I'm sure I'm not the only writer to suffer from social (media) anxiety.

That's v. interesting, thank you. I’m considering a “godparent” system for new members at the moment. If this happens, it will need its own forum.

 

[Bloo]

Hiya, AP...

Thank you for the detailed response !

I know what BBS and CompuServe were. Yet I couldn't afford a PC at the time. I'm glad you're not reflexively going the Fisher-Price route. I like a spiffy modern UI - but not at the cost of functionality. I dig the old-school BBS vibe. I get to experience what I missed out on way back then.

I know about the location bit (thanks for the flag, BTW). Yet I was aiming for a broader example of what prefixes could do if they hadn't the burden of also being pseudo-forums. For example, "Blogs" could have The Craft and Social Awareness. "Help" might include Feature Requests and Bug Reports. "Welcome" could include the genre the newcomer writes in. I'm sure there's many more possibilities my fermented grain soaked brain can't consider right now.

I really do miss Marketplace. I found some good books there. The exposure gave me an opportunity to support authors I believe in - or wanted to give a shot. It may not have had a lot of traffic, but I feel it did have an outsized effect on the OPs posting there. It was like the small bookstore where most people browse, but don't buy. Yet when they do buy, it makes a difference. Maybe it could be reborn as The Bookstore or The Stacks? Could you offer some virtual bling for those members who purchase "locally"? The mechanism might be difficult to implement, yet an honor system would prolly work well here. Make the badge temporary to avoid emeriti syndrome. The badge could be something like "I Read Local" or somesuch.

About Newest Members...I only see one username (the very latest, I assume). There used to be more than a dozen names IIRC. Is it a privilege issue, or has the functionality been deprecated?

Curious...have you noticed more or less interaction with the Welcome tags vis-à-vis the dedicated forum they replaced? Can you measure that on your end? What about other tags versus forums?

Thanks again !

 

[Claire G]

I think it's worth noting the confusion of the newest members. I agree that too many forums can be overwhelming (I found this when I joined but I quickly worked out which were the most popular ones, and to focus my attention on New Posts and New Profile Posts, the Lab and Cafe Life). Navigating their way around too many forums may daunt people and prevent them from persevering, thereby limiting their interaction/contribution and certainly not resulting in them becoming full members.

On the other hand, the prefix system has its own challenges, as @Bloo points out. Is there a way to strike more of a balance, or to direct people to key aspects of Litopia in an early message/welcome email to narrow down the options for them initially?

e.g. You may find it useful to start by exploring What's New (particularly New Posts and New Profile Posts to get a feel for the sort of content that members share). We also have The Lab, where you can give and ask for critique on your work-in-progress; our members' Blog; and a myriad of threads under the umbrella term, Cafe Life. Have fun and please don't be afraid to reach out to the Guardians @Jonny and @Ancora Imparo if you need any further help. P.S. Upgrade to Full Membership here to gain access to our weekly Zoom Huddles led by @AgentPete as well as our fabulously informative Seminars!

However, these are just the areas of Litopia where my attention is focused - other members my feel differently.

P.S. I can't find The Marketplace.

Claire xx

 

[Ed Simnett]

@AgentPete glad you changed flags...

 

[AgentPete]

I know about the location bit (thanks for the flag, BTW). Yet I was aiming for a broader example of what prefixes could do if they hadn't the burden of also being pseudo-forums. For example, "Blogs" could have The Craft and Social Awareness. "Help" might include Feature Requests and Bug Reports. "Welcome" could include the genre the newcomer writes in. I'm sure there's many more possibilities my fermented grain soaked brain can't consider right now.

We do have the option (not currently implemented) to have more than one prefix per thread, I’m not wild about that idea. But I can see the need to cover more thematic bases as you suggest. Thread tagging is possibly the way to go, we’ve never made a thing about it, but the feature is there, see the little taggy icon? We can push this idea a bit more...

I really do miss Marketplace. I found some good books there. The exposure gave me an opportunity to support authors I believe in - or wanted to give a shot. It may not have had a lot of traffic, but I feel it did have an outsized effect on the OPs posting there. It was like the small bookstore where most people browse, but don't buy. Yet when they do buy, it makes a difference. Maybe it could be reborn as The Bookstore or The Stacks? Could you offer some virtual bling for those members who purchase "locally"? The mechanism might be difficult to implement, yet an honor system would prolly work well here. Make the badge temporary to avoid emeriti syndrome. The badge could be something like "I Read Local" or somesuch.

Open to bringing it back. Let me create a new thread here for discussion.

About Newest Members...I only see one username (the very latest, I assume). There used to be more than a dozen names IIRC. Is it a privilege issue, or has the functionality been deprecated?

Hmm. I'm seeing:

IE most recent ten, which is what it should be. Show me yours?

Curious...have you noticed more or less interaction with the Welcome tags vis-à-vis the dedicated forum they replaced? Can you measure that on your end?

I don’t actually know. Just had a new member (who introduced themselves nicely and was warmly welcomed) get in touch to have their data removed, which I’ve done. I always hate it if people do that, you simply don’t know what on earth upset them or they didn’t like. Seems like a mutual waste of time.

As I hinted, I’d like to get a “godparent” system going here, which may require its own distinct forum/subforum, but got a few more things on the list to do first...

 

[AgentPete]

I think it's worth noting the confusion of the newest members. I agree that too many forums can be overwhelming (I found this when I joined but I quickly worked out which were the most popular ones, and to focus my attention on New Posts and New Profile Posts, the Lab and Cafe Life). Navigating their way around too many forums may daunt people and prevent them from persevering, thereby limiting their interaction/contribution and certainly not resulting in them becoming full members.

On the other hand, the prefix system has its own challenges, as @Bloo points out. Is there a way to strike more of a balance, or to direct people to key aspects of Litopia in an early message/welcome email to narrow down the options for them initially?

e.g. You may find it useful to start by exploring What's New (particularly New Posts and New Profile Posts to get a feel for the sort of content that members share). We also have The Lab, where you can give and ask for critique on your work-in-progress; our members' Blog; and a myriad of threads under the umbrella term, Cafe Life. Have fun and please don't be afraid to reach out to the Guardians @Jonny and @Ancora Imparo if you need any further help. P.S. Upgrade to Full Membership here to gain access to our weekly Zoom Huddles led by @AgentPete as well as our fabulously informative Seminars!

However, these are just the areas of Litopia where my attention is focused - other members my feel differently.

Thanks, Claire

I’m always looking to improve the on-boarding process. We currently drip-feed new members a series of emails after they sign up, covering the points you've succinctly covered above, e.g. this goes out immediately after sign-up:

And there are 4 more that go out over the next 3 days. This may / may not be the best way to onboard folk. I’m keeping it in constant review.

As I mentioned elsewhere, I’m keen to try the “godparent” system here, but I’ve got a few more items above it on the to-do list. I have a feeling this may actually be the most successful onboarding process of all… we’ll see in due course.

P.S. I can't find The Marketplace.

See this thread...

Help Please! Thread 'Bring Back The Marketplace…?'

Aug 9, 2024

It’s been suggested that we should bring back the Marketplace, an area here where members could advertise their books (but not just books) and sell directly.

I removed it during the forum restructuring a few weeks ago… without telling anyone… largely because it didn’t seem to have much use, and little-used forums don’t look great to potential new members.

However – it’s absence has indeed been noticed

So should we bring it back – and if so, what should it be called?

Please express your thoughts below, within the next 10 days from the date of this post.

• AgentPete
• Replies: 7
• Forum: Café Life

• 

 

[Bloo]

Oh no...I wasn't thinking about allowing more than one tag at a time. I think we've all seen that devolve into tag soup on other sites. Yuck. I simply meant more forums would allow more tags that are forum dependent. Keep it simple so my hung-over brain can cope.

Only one place I can see new members is in "What's New" - and only the latest one...



I'm running DuckDuckGo under Android 9 on a cheap tablet. Neither mobile nor desktop mode gives me the view you have. Am I looking in the wrong spot?

Thanks

 

[AgentPete]

That's useful, let me probe. p.

 

[Bloo]

BTW...when I pull down "Registered Members" from the Home tab, I get an access error.

I'm seeing some fresh weirdness as I navigate the Colony. Methinks you're playing around with the site right now

 

[Bloo]

That's useful, let me probe. p.

Still probing ?

OUCH...be careful. That was me !

 

[AgentPete]

Only one place I can see new members is in "What's New" - and only the latest one...

So it looks like you’re defaulting to the “What’s New” tab as you home page, yes? In other words, you have colony.litopia.com/whats-new bookmarked, not the root colony.litopia.com

To be honest, I rarely / never use that tab. But I know some folks do. Try bookmarking the root…?

 

[Bloo]

So it looks like you’re defaulting to the “What’s New” tab as you home page, yes? In other words, you have colony.litopia.com/whats-new bookmarked, not the root colony.litopia.com

To be honest, I rarely / never use that tab. But I know some folks do. Try bookmarking the root…?

Here's the root addy reached via fresh bookmark. Mobile mode is shown, but desktop mode similar...



Landscape orientation moves bottom content to a sidebar in either mobile or desktop mode. Newest member list not visible anywhere on the page.

I see you fixed the busted book club link so it goes to the Café. Meh.

 

[Bloo]

Just had a new member (who introduced themselves nicely and was warmly welcomed) get in touch to have their data removed, which I’ve done. I always hate it if people do that, you simply don’t know what on earth upset them or they didn’t like. Seems like a mutual waste of time.

Oof. I saw the new member C last night. Glad I didn't respond. My typing is atrocious and slow. I'd be miffed if my post went *poof* after the effort. And of course I'd wonder if it was me who scared her off

I feel bad for you and others who responded. She really did get a warm welcome here.

 

[AgentPete]

Here's the root addy reached via fresh bookmark. Mobile mode is shown, but desktop mode similar...

OK, definitely wrong. Will take it up with the designer...

 

[AgentPete]

Oof. I saw the new member C last night. Glad I didn't respond. My typing is atrocious and slow. I'd be miffed if my post went *poof* after the effort. And of course I'd wonder if it was me who scared her off

I feel bad for you and others who responded. She really did get a warm welcome here.

Yeah, well it was almost certainly you, Bloo

People “skim” like that for largely unknown reasons. I do try to ask them sometimes, but rarely get a useful response.

 

[AgentPete]

Here's the root addy reached via fresh bookmark. Mobile mode is shown, but desktop mode similar...

I'm a bit stuck on this, I can't replicate what you're seeing in any way. Here is a shot from websiteplanet.com, but everywhere I've checked (inc dev tools in FFox) show the same tablet presentation:

Elements are just so wrong (or missing) in your own screenshot that I'm not sure where to start. Do you have javascript disabled (shouldn't be an issue, really) or very odd security software in place...? Or some other filtering going on?

 

[Bloo]

Holy hell, Peter. You're up early !

Which elements an I missing? Here's the same page on my tablet (in dark mode). My cookie blocker didn't allow the popup, yet otherwise it's almost the same. There is a side-scroll arrow, but that prolly coz my screen is narrower.



The previous images I sent were scrolled to the bottom (where I thought the "Newest members" element was). Maybe I forgot where it should be. Can you show me what page and where on it I should look for this?

Can anyone else see the above, or am I the odd one out ?

Thanks !

 

[AgentPete]

Holy hell, Peter. You're up early !

Sleep with one eye open

The previous images I sent were scrolled to the bottom (where I thought the "Newest members" element was). Maybe I forgot where it should be. Can you show me what page and where on it I should look for this?

Ah, OK. I didn't understand that, I thought the pic was the entire page from the top!

Can anyone else see the above, or am I the odd one out ?

I don't believe it's showing on tablet size Now I know the problem I'll... probe... p.

 

[Bloo]

Thanks for looking into, Peter. I'm such a divo