Possible source of discussion

[Lex Black]

Hiya!

So, I follow this wonderful person's YouTube channel, and today she dropped this:



I enjoy her work, but this one had me thinking, because there are some interesting contrasts in what she suggests, re: what to put in a query letter and in what order, in contrast to what @AgentPete has recommended in the past.

Is this good material for a discussion here, or a Huddle perhaps?

 

[RK Wallis]

Hiya!

So, I follow this wonderful person's YouTube channel, and today she dropped this:



I enjoy her work, but this one had me thinking, because there are some interesting contrasts in what she suggests, re: what to put in a query letter and in what order, in contrast to what @AgentPete has recommended in the past.

Is this good material for a discussion here, or a Huddle perhaps?

She's a great find, Lex, I'm binge watching her, lol!

 

[ChantalS]

I follow her too. I do sometimes wonder about people on YouTube who used to work in the industry and no longer do who are now trying to sell something though. Not to say she isn’t legit, but why isn’t she still in the industry? Just playing devil’s advocate.

 

[Lex Black]

I follow her too. I do sometimes wonder about people on YouTube who used to work in the industry and no longer do who are now trying to sell something though. Not to say she isn’t legit, but why isn’t she still in the industry? Just playing devil’s advocate.

This is from the About section of her YouTube page:

"My name is Alyssa Matesic, and I’m a freelance book editor with 7+ years of book publishing and editorial experience. Throughout my career, I’ve held editorial roles across both sides of the publishing industry: Big Five publishing houses and literary agencies. This goal of this channel is to help writers throughout the book writing journey—whether you're working on your manuscript or you're looking for publishing advice."

 

[Hannah F]

@AgentPete discusses query letters in huddles, so this is a discussion for a huddle.

Omerta

 

[E G Logan]

...interesting contrasts in what she suggests, re: what to put in a query letter and in what order, in contrast to what @AgentPete has recommended in the past.

Hi, Lex
I find what US agents ask for -- and some of them are just as prescriptive as in the UK -- is significantly different from UK agents. That's both in terms of what they want, and the order it should appear in the query letter.
I have two different 'form' letters that I personalise for each agent I approach: one for UK submissions, one for US queries.

IMHO, the US agents being prescriptive is useful, since what they are specifying is quite similar, one to another. In contrast, I've found what UK agents ask for -- though @AgentPete may disagree -- is often wildly different, miles apart. There are as many answers as people you ask.

I once paid for a telephone 1-2-1 with an agent* of no particular standing in the industry, who tore apart my sample submission letter, which was closely based on a (to my mind, very good) model published by a top 10 agent. Instead, she recommended/demanded a 'painting by numbers' kind of approach that would guarantee a letter that read like the Terms & Conditions on the back of a train ticket.

[Both agent* names available, but only privately.]

There are some very good, concise, descriptions of how to write a US query letter. Also the UK good one mentioned above.
I can publish if anyone wants..?

 

[CageSage]

@AgentPete discusses query letters in huddles, so this is a discussion for a huddle.

Omerta

Not everyone can make it to the exclusive huddle nights. It's a common writer's discussion, so I don't see why it can't be discussed in one of the backroom forums, not just in huddle.

 

[Hannah F]

Not everyone can make it to the exclusive huddle nights. It's a common writer's discussion, so I don't see why it can't be discussed in one of the backroom forums, not just in huddle.

Yes, certainly it's a good discussion but not a compare and contrast to any particular person's advice. Perhaps I misunderstood the suggestion.

 

[Serra K]

I do sometimes wonder about people on YouTube who used to work in the industry and no longer do who are now trying to sell something though. Not to say she isn’t legit, but why isn’t she still in the industry? Just playing devil’s advocate.

I follow her too. I remember her saying something about living in New York and the cost of living compared with her income was an issue. She had to move away from her job and begin freelancing to pay the rent.
My memory is bad but it was something like that.

 

[CageSage]

Yes, certainly it's a good discussion but not a compare and contrast to any particular person's advice. Perhaps I misunderstood the suggestion.

If the advice is public, it's open to comparison. I understand the need to keep discussions private on personal work submitted to the huddle, but not generalised subjects that apply, or could apply, to general discussion of things in the writerly world, including comparing cover letters - but this discussion could be in the back room @Lex Black , if there was potential for any problems.

 

[RK Wallis]

I follow her too. I do sometimes wonder about people on YouTube who used to work in the industry and no longer do who are now trying to sell something though. Not to say she isn’t legit, but why isn’t she still in the industry? Just playing devil’s advocate.

I think Serra has hit the nail on the head. If I compare my own life journey (and this is law). I gained about 12 years experience in the city with a middle tier law firm, with a good rep, when I chose to open my sole practice at home (while I had kids). I was actually meeting with them the week of my stroke about going back. Everyone has a life journey, and in one video I've seen there's a new looking toddler gate. It might well suit this point in her life.

I follow her too. I remember her saying something about living in New York and the cost of living compared with her income was an issue. She had to move away from her job and begin freelancing to pay the rent.
My memory is bad but it was something like that.

Imagine the cost of NYC with kids? It'd be like Sydney, lol!

 

[AgentPete]

Not everyone can make it to the exclusive huddle nights. It's a common writer's discussion, so I don't see why it can't be discussed in one of the backroom forums, not just in huddle.

Understood. The Huddle is essentially confidential, which as you say precludes wider dissemination, even here in the Colony.

This is as much for my own benefit as everyone else’s. I can talk freely about current events in publishing without having to be too circumspect. And, just as members can bring their works-in-progress along, I can also bring my own w-i-p, e.g. seminars get their first incarnations in Huddles, where they get their rough edges knocked off.

It’s very common for members to bring query letters along. Although conceivably this could be done elsewhere, e.g. the Back Room, it would be more problematic.

Also, I really don’t want to get into a public spat with anyone, even if I think their views/advice are rubbish (and there’s a lot of bad advice for aspiring writers on the net). Anyone can become a literary agent. There’s no training, no qualifications. People often fall into it as a result of being made redundant from a publishing company. It has the attraction of having some superficial status amongst aspiring writers. Even amongst established agents, you will find a shockingly wide spectrum of ability. Agents’ amateurism is a common topic of conversation amongst publishers, they all have their own horror stories.

The only good query letter is the one that works. A prescriptive box-ticking approach is less likely to produce that.

 

[ChantalS]

I think in this case she has an editing firm on the side. I’m not too concerned about her in particular, I simply raise the issue as a general caution. A few years ago there was a YouTube author giving writing tips - then she released her self published book and it was awful. So it’s more of a general “anybody can be on YouTube” kind of thing.

I have heard her advice echoed by other North American agents so I’m interested in how query advice changes for American agents and UK agents. I keep hearing “hook, book, cook” - the hook, then the blurb, then a sentence about the author. That’s for American agents.

 

[RK Wallis]

there was a YouTube author giving writing tips - then she released her self published book and it was awful

Ooh, I've had one of those too! Book was bearable until halfway, then it was a DNF.

 

[Pamela Jo]

Hi, Lex
I find what US agents ask for -- and some of them are just as prescriptive as in the UK -- is significantly different from UK agents. That's both in terms of what they want, and the order it should appear in the query letter.
I have two different 'form' letters that I personalise for each agent I approach: one for UK submissions, one for US queries.

IMHO, the US agents being prescriptive is useful, since what they are specifying is quite similar, one to another. In contrast, I've found what UK agents ask for -- though @AgentPete may disagree -- is often wildly different, miles apart. There are as many answers as people you ask.

I once paid for a telephone 1-2-1 with an agent* of no particular standing in the industry, who tore apart my sample submission letter, which was closely based on a (to my mind, very good) model published by a top 10 agent. Instead, she recommended/demanded a 'painting by numbers' kind of approach that would guarantee a letter that read like the Terms & Conditions on the back of a train ticket.

[Both agent* names available, but only privately.]

There are some very good, concise, descriptions of how to write a US query letter. Also the UK good one mentioned above.
I can publish if anyone wants..?

I agree E. G. The same if you are writing for newspapers or magazines-the styles, the stories, what an editor wants from you are totally different in a US publication than a UK. Some culture shock when I went to Tokyo and worked for English editors. Which is why it is in intriguing to me that Vanity Fair's article on Scholastics Publishing suggests Harry Potter wasn't anything in England. Only when it was pitched to foreign publishers did a bidding war ensue. It's more than US vs UK spelling.

 

[Pamela Jo]

I agree E. G. The same if you are writing for newspapers or magazines-the styles, the stories, what an editor wants from you are totally different in a US publication than a UK. Some culture shock when I went to Tokyo and worked for English editors. Which is why it is in intriguing to me that Vanity Fair's article on Scholastics Publishing suggests Harry Potter wasn't anything in England. Only when it was pitched to foreign publishers did a bidding war ensue. It's more than US vs UK spelling. I would be interested if on one else is-please ping me as Pete says.

 

[Pamela Jo]

I think Serra has hit the nail on the head. If I compare my own life journey (and this is law). I gained about 12 years experience in the city with a middle tier law firm, with a good rep, when I chose to open my sole practice at home (while I had kids). I was actually meeting with them the week of my stroke about going back. Everyone has a life journey, and in one video I've seen there's a new looking toddler gate. It might well suit this point in her life.



Imagine the cost of NYC with kids? It'd be like Sydney, lol!

Sounds like a palpable hit to me, RK. Women do have different trajectories in their life journey's.

 

[E G Logan]

I keep hearing “hook, book, cook” - the hook, then the blurb, then a sentence about the author. That’s for American agents.

Yes, that pretty much tallies with what I've heard.
Also, for the hook, US agents want you to dive straight into the story, with no preamble.
No British style: "I am approaching you to seek representation for my..." (And, no, I don't say that now -- though I think my first efforts did, and not much else! No wonder they were disastrous.)

 

[Hannah F]

If you check out agent tweets, some say what they want in the query (sometimes more specifically than on the agency website) and some even tweet examples of queries they particularly liked. Always worth checking if they've done a #asktheagent session.

 

[Ed Simnett]

my observation: On the US vs UK thing, my take it that people in (especially business) US ask direct questions, expecting a discursive answer (e.g. Q: are you carbon neutral? A: the environment is our #1 priority, we are running 17 programs to focus on this and have set and restated our clear neutrality goal) where people in the UK ask indirect questions for fear of stalling the conversation if the actual answer is not good (i.e. the people in the UK are more literalist, if the question is precise). So I bet that to the average UK observer US query letters from US writers will tend to appear more rule breaking <if you think there are rules>.

 

[Dorm Ant]

Ooh, I've had one of those too! Book was bearable until halfway, then it was a DNF.

Definitely not finishable? Damn near foul? Dire, nasty filth?

 

[RK Wallis]

Definitely not finishable? Damn near foul? Dire, nasty filth?

It was like they sought critique for the first half of the novel, and not the rest, and the pacing went from moving nicely to think as soup. It should've been moving faster, not hitting the brakes. It didn't feel right. It felt half done.