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Fun or Profit?

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Meerkat said:
The thinking of ideas is easy. The planning the stories is easy. The editing the stories is easy.

But the sitting down TO WRITE SOMETHING BRILLIANT RIGHT NOW freezes me.

I am, of course, aware, and have written on my blog, that no one writes anything brilliant in the first draft. It's still a block for me.

I've tried to trick my way around this lately by writing my stories longhand. I keep a longhand journal, and I never have any problems writing away in my journal because it's not formal. So I've been curling up on the couch with a notebook and trying to write fiction longhand so that my brain thinks I'm just scribbling instead of composing Great Literature.

So far, it works well.
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Whatever works for you. If I had to do it longhand I'd not be able to. Half the time I can't read my own writing (think GP script spider crawling across page) I can only write neat if I really really concentrate. Plus because of the dysbraxia I tend to choke the pen to death and it kills my hand. Typing is the only way I can sustainably write.
 
Meerkat said:
The thinking of ideas is easy. The planning the stories is easy. The editing the stories is easy.

But the sitting down TO WRITE SOMETHING BRILLIANT RIGHT NOW freezes me.
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Interesting. I'm the opposite. I find the writing easy, mostly, it just flows out by itself. I'm not saying what flows out is good, but it does flow. It's plotting that I find painful, in fact agonising. I am still trying to work out a plot for a novel, and it just isn't happening. I mean, I have a plot, of sorts, but deep down I know that it is clumsy and unsophisticated, probably predictable, and I don't quite know what to do with it next. I think that's partly why I prefer short stories, I find them easier because they are less demanding re plot. Think I've said that before somewhere, so am probably becoming boring...yawn.
 
Karen Gray said:
Plus because of the dysbraxia I tend to choke the pen to death and it kills my hand. Typing is the only way I can sustainably write.
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I always clutch pens too hard as well. Same issue with the guitar. Can't pick up anything without trying to choke it. It's a miracle the cat's still with us.
 
Marc Joan said:
Interesting. I'm the opposite. I find the writing easy, mostly, it just flows out by itself. I'm not saying what flows out is good, but it does flow. It's plotting that I find painful, in fact agonising. I am still trying to work out a plot for a novel, and it just isn't happening. I mean, I have a plot, of sorts, but deep down I know that it is clumsy and unsophisticated, probably predictable, and I don't quite know what to do with it next. I think that's partly why I prefer short stories, I find them easier because they are less demanding re plot. Think I've said that before somewhere, so am probably becoming boring...yawn.
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Lol Not at all! Silly, you're never boring :)
Maybe that's the point to shelve it, work on something else and come back to it with a fresh mind? I know that this seems to work for some folk, it may work for you :) Unless you've tried it and I'm talking nonsense ;)

I just write. I don't plan anything. I don't plot, I don't really do anything other than drop it on the page and read it back then tweak. Most of the Saga is complete and ready to be translated from brain to laptop. There is something I'm really awful at, notebooks! Can't do notebooks, that is something that jumbles me. If I start jumping ahead and writing down notes I lose where I am in my mind. So (for example) I can know exactly how book 15 goes, but I can't jot it down because I will block book 4 (which I'm writing)

Maybe notebooks and shelving would help Marc? You could look at it and jot down any thoughts each time you pick it up, then go from there? Dunno if that would be useful or not but worth a try :)
 
Going to just put this out there as a suggestion … why does the writing have to be brilliant or perfect or stellar, or whatever you're ultimate goal is, right away? Just write it. Get the story down. Write scenes of dialogue if that's all you can do that day. Write the scenes out of order. Just free flow and get something down on paper/into a document. You can always go back and edit it later, mix the scenes around, move everything, etc.

I rarely end up submitting the first pass of any of my books. Actually, I've probably never done that. I know we've talked about drafts before, and while I don't save the different versions of each story, so I don't have different drafts per se, I do make several passes through it, not only editing, but layering in. Especially for the sex scenes and the long passages of dialogue I tend to write.

I think about the story in dialogue because that's how the scenes play out in my head. My characters speak to me. But I can't leave it that way or I'd end up with a book that was nothing but dialogue. LOL!! I go back and layer in things like sights, smells, sounds, and tastes as are appropriate to the scene. I layer in action around that dialogue and remove the tags as much as possible.

Then I go back again and layer in the emotion - both external and internal. That's where the meat of a romance novel is (no pun intended - HA!) so I spend more time on that than on any of the above. That's what will turn my rambling characters into two people who grow and change. But honestly? I rarely get something I'm happy with on the first pass.
 
Carol Rose said:
Going to just put this out there as a suggestion … why does the writing have to be brilliant or perfect or stellar, or whatever you're ultimate goal is, right away? Just write it. Get the story down. Write scenes of dialogue if that's all you can do that day. Write the scenes out of order. Just free flow and get something down on paper/into a document. You can always go back and edit it later, mix the scenes around, move everything, etc.

I rarely end up submitting the first pass of any of my books. Actually, I've probably never done that. I know we've talked about drafts before, and while I don't save the different versions of each story, so I don't have different drafts per se, I do make several passes through it, not only editing, but layering in. Especially for the sex scenes and the long passages of dialogue I tend to write.

I think about the story in dialogue because that's how the scenes play out in my head. My characters speak to me. But I can't leave it that way or I'd end up with a book that was nothing but dialogue. LOL!! I go back and layer in things like sights, smells, sounds, and tastes as are appropriate to the scene. I layer in action around that dialogue and remove the tags as much as possible.

Then I go back again and layer in the emotion - both external and internal. That's where the meat of a romance novel is (no pun intended - HA!) so I spend more time on that than on any of the above. That's what will turn my rambling characters into two people who grow and change. But honestly? I rarely get something I'm happy with on the first pass.
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While all that is true, that's a harder barrier for some to cross. It took several stories for me to finally be okay with writing crap the first time through. I'm a chronic perfectionist and I want everything to be right. I'm just now getting okay with blazing through my first draft to get the story down, then going back and adding in more details.
 
Nicole Wilson said:
While all that is true, that's a harder barrier for some to cross. It took several stories for me to finally be okay with writing crap the first time through. I'm a chronic perfectionist and I want everything to be right. I'm just now getting okay with blazing through my first draft to get the story down, then going back and adding in more details.
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Everyone will always have different ways of doing things, not to mention different views on what makes a good story, or what quality writing is. Look at Van Gogh! He hated his work. He is one of the most celebrated painters ever. Nuf said. What he thought was rubbish, is in actual fact outstanding. I think the key is to find something that feels comfortable (and for each of us that will be different) and go with it :) Eventually we will all find our little "thing" and when we do, it will only help us to improve our work and our feelings about the writing that we produce :)
 
It was a tough barrier for me to cross, too, being a perfectionist as well. That's the reason I shared my process as a possible suggestion to help with the issues expressed in this thread. As I said in the post, I'm rarely happy with what I write the first pass around, so I had to come up with this process or I'd never get past page one. Just trying to participate and offer help, which is of course the reason we're all here. :)
 
Carol Rose said:
It was a tough barrier for me to cross, too, being a perfectionist as well. That's the reason I shared my process as a possible suggestion to help with the issues expressed in this thread. As I said in the post, I'm rarely happy with what I write the first pass around, so I had to come up with this process or I'd never get past page one. Just trying to participate and offer help, which is of course the reason we're all here. :)
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:) I'm curious - you have so many books out there - what is your process for writing? How long does it take you to get through a book? And how many books do you put out a year?
 
Carol Rose said:
Going to just put this out there as a suggestion … why does the writing have to be brilliant or perfect or stellar, or whatever you're ultimate goal is, right away? Just write it. Get the story down. Write scenes of dialogue if that's all you can do that day. Write the scenes out of order. Just free flow and get something down on paper/into a document. You can always go back and edit it later, mix the scenes around, move everything, etc.

I rarely end up submitting the first pass of any of my books. Actually, I've probably never done that. I know we've talked about drafts before, and while I don't save the different versions of each story, so I don't have different drafts per se, I do make several passes through it, not only editing, but layering in. Especially for the sex scenes and the long passages of dialogue I tend to write.

I think about the story in dialogue because that's how the scenes play out in my head. My characters speak to me. But I can't leave it that way or I'd end up with a book that was nothing but dialogue. LOL!! I go back and layer in things like sights, smells, sounds, and tastes as are appropriate to the scene. I layer in action around that dialogue and remove the tags as much as possible.

Then I go back again and layer in the emotion - both external and internal. That's where the meat of a romance novel is (no pun intended - HA!) so I spend more time on that than on any of the above. That's what will turn my rambling characters into two people who grow and change. But honestly? I rarely get something I'm happy with on the first pass.
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This is spot on. I do go for stretches where I just know there's no point in trying — it's not there. But when I am actually writing, I put something down every day. It might be a quarter of a page, it might be eight pages — usually about three to five. And I eternally agonize that this book, onto which I just spat out random unrefined words, is nowhere near as good as the last one, which I've been polishing and refining for a year. Then I polish and refine this one, and realize — oh, this one actually stacks up, it just needed work. I notice things that I didn't include — often how the character feels about it, or the greater meaning. You don't see those, when you're flying through the first draft.

I approach it like a painting. You slap on some rough charcoal guides, start in broad strokes with a palette knife, and then lay the fine detail over-top — rather than glass-blowing, where it has to be planned and perfected the first try, but can always be re-melted and bent a little bit, in an emergency, and if it cracks you start all over.
 
Nicole Wilson said:
:) I'm curious - you have so many books out there - what is your process for writing? How long does it take you to get through a book? And how many books do you put out a year?
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Thanks for asking, Nicole. :) It takes me about a month to do a 40K to 50K book, which is the length most of mine are. When I write a shorter story - like I'm trying to finish up now - it technically should take me no longer than a week or two, but sometimes real life gets in the way. :) Last year I wrote 15 books. This year I'm already up to 18.

As for my process, when I'm in the middle of a series like I am now with The Weathermen, I know ahead of time who will be in which book, and roughly what progress will be made toward the overall goal of the series in each book. I usually find some surprises along the way, but I stay flexible when I write so that I can work them in.

I make my character sketches first, because I feel as if I have to know them in order to write them, and then I just write Chapter One and begin in the middle of my heroine's central dilemma. For example, the one I just finished - A Slow-Burning Dance - had the heroine inspecting her future dance studio in a strip mall, when she spies the man who is financing the project - the hero. She knows him, but had hoped never to see him again since he broke her heart six years earlier. I start them all that way - with the heroine meeting the hero and having an instant conflict with him. :)

I need my word count goals otherwise I get lazy, but sometimes I can't meet them. I do try to make that up on weekends, when I don't have to go to my real job, but sometimes the only thing I can do is move the completion date out on my schedule. As for the actual writing, I write when I can, and I'm used to interruptions but man do I hate them. LOL!!

I hope this helps! :)
 
Jason Byrne said:
This is spot on. I do go for stretches where I just know there's no point in trying — it's not there. But when I am actually writing, I put something down every day. It might be a quarter of a page, it might be eight pages — usually about three to five. And I eternally agonize that this book, onto which I just spat out random unrefined words, is nowhere near as good as the last one, which I've been polishing and refining for a year. Then I polish and refine this one, and realize — oh, this one actually stacks up, it just needed work. I notice things that I didn't include — often how the character feels about it, or the greater meaning. You don't see those, when you're flying through the first draft.

I approach it like a painting. You slap on some rough charcoal guides, start in broad strokes with a palette knife, and then lay the fine detail over-top — rather than glass-blowing, where it has to be planned and perfected the first try, but can always be re-melted and bent a little bit, in an emergency, and if it cracks you start all over.
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I don't think I've ever written anything and thought Wow. That's good. :) Seriously. I think all my work sucks. :)
 
Carol Rose said:
Thanks for asking, Nicole. :) It takes me about a month to do a 40K to 50K book, which is the length most of mine are. When I write a shorter story - like I'm trying to finish up now - it technically should take me no longer than a week or two, but sometimes real life gets in the way. :) Last year I wrote 15 books. This year I'm already up to 18.

As for my process, when I'm in the middle of a series like I am now with The Weathermen, I know ahead of time who will be in which book, and roughly what progress will be made toward the overall goal of the series in each book. I usually find some surprises along the way, but I stay flexible when I write so that I can work them in.

I make my character sketches first, because I feel as if I have to know them in order to write them, and then I just write Chapter One and begin in the middle of my heroine's central dilemma. For example, the one I just finished - A Slow-Burning Dance - had the heroine inspecting her future dance studio in a strip mall, when she spies the man who is financing the project - the hero. She knows him, but had hoped never to see him again since he broke her heart six years earlier. I start them all that way - with the heroine meeting the hero and having an instant conflict with him. :)

I need my word count goals otherwise I get lazy, but sometimes I can't meet them. I do try to make that up on weekends, when I don't have to go to my real job, but sometimes the only thing I can do is move the completion date out on my schedule. As for the actual writing, I write when I can, and I'm used to interruptions but man do I hate them. LOL!!

I hope this helps! :)
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That's good to know :) It's actually pretty close to what I do, though it takes me a little longer to write. Thanks for sharing!
 
Carol Rose said:
I'm happy to share anything that will help another writer. :)
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Hail hail Litopia land of the brave and freeeeee!
DuckSoup3.png
 
That's a really great, soul searching question. Honestly, if I could write full time, that would be splendid. But that likely won't happen. So, I'm happy to do it for fun, and always will :)
 
Island Writer said:
@Carol Rose - you are always so generous with your advice and time. You are the most prolific writer I have come across... And I'm surprised you have a day job! I am curios as to how many books you gave sold in total. What is your best seller
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Thank you!! :) You are so sweet! :) I have 73 books published or under contract, and my best seller to date is Winning Her Racy Heart - Racy Nights 1, written as Tara Rose. :)
 
Funny, cause I don't do any outlining, which some sources think is utterly essential. I jot down ideas as they develop, both before I start the novel and whilst writing it. Many ideas don't get used, but having trouble writing? Not usually something I have to deal with. I've learnt that even if I get stuck, the best thing is to force myself to write with no idea what was going to happen. Just writing anything usually means the story itself comes out and suddenly the blockage is gone and some crazy and hopefully interesting scenario has developed. If you fear the writing, you'll get no-where. Writing should be as natural as breathing, you can never stop.

Of-course I make no mention of life in general, which often cuts into the time that should be spent writing! If only we didn't have to go shopping etc.! ;)
 
Karen Gray said:
Lol! Morning @Carol Rose :) (or I suppose good evening to you) Batman is a pretty plausible explination. All the writing get's done in the bat cave... do you have a cool car?
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No, it's morning here! :D 5:38 AM as I'm writing this. I actually liked your explanation better than I'm Batman. LOL!! No cool car… no bat cave… just a weird chick who keeps odd hours, likes the dark, and dresses funny. ;)
 
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