When a V is a W is a squiggly line and all are correct

[MattScho]

this, to me, is an interesting translation issue, one of those things I dealt with all the time in journalism and inevitably fell back onto the ol' AP style book for official rulings. Found these around the house recently, as you do, piles of old socialist tomes. But note the name. In English, we'd assume it's wrong. Of course, correctly, it's Cyrillic, and I've most often often dealt with the issue from Arabic. The question: when is a translation actually correct? The answer is kind of always, if we decide it is, and never, isn't it? anyway, thoughts?

 

[Peyton Stafford]

Interesting. Speaking from my background in history of religions, people today struggle to understanding historical prophets. The best approach I have found is to look at the translations as interpretations rather than taking them for literal. I’m not sure how to put this interpreting a text from one language and culture to another is not just a matter of skillfully translating the words. It’s a matter of translating the meaning, within one culture into a meaning that people in another culture can understand.

 

[Pamela Jo]

this, to me, is an interesting translation issue, one of those things I dealt with all the time in journalism and inevitably fell back onto the ol' AP style book for official rulings. Found these around the house recently, as you do, piles of old socialist tomes. But note the name. In English, we'd assume it's wrong. Of course, correctly, it's Cyrillic, and I've most often often dealt with the issue from Arabic. The question: when is a translation actually correct? The answer is kind of always, if we decide it is, and never, isn't it? anyway, thoughts?

Juerg says what in English we identify as a V- in Cyrillic looks like a B. So what you have is an interesting little window into time. German printer: Use the Vogel -F sound V? Use the W? Make the wrong choice and you end up on the wrong side of a Stasi bullet after a few hours of torture. Now Choose.

 

[Pamela Jo]

Just as an aside, Red poets’ society: the secret history of the Stasi’s book club for spies. When the land of Goethe meets Stalinism.

 

[MattScho]

Transliteration issues were always no win as far as direct translation.
Once, in 2003 in Baghdad, I came at a battle around a mosque from the south, the residents trying to protect the mosque and burying their children in shallow graves. Whatshiname from the NYT came from the north, and wrote about US troops fighting off Iraqi terrorists. Because Arabic to English is far from exact, as with Cyrillic to Latin characters, the name of the mosque was really different. We had no idea it was the same battle for a couple days. My translators, who were better, insisted they were correct. The NYT always wins in that fight, though

 

[Pamela Jo]

Transliteration issues were always no win as far as direct translation.
Once, in 2003 in Baghdad, I came at a battle around a mosque from the south, the residents trying to protect the mosque and burying their children in shallow graves. Whatshiname from the NYT came from the north, and wrote about US troops fighting off Iraqi terrorists. Because Arabic to English is far from exact, as with Cyrillic to Latin characters, the name of the mosque was really different. We had no idea it was the same battle for a couple days. My translators, who were better, insisted they were correct. The NYT always wins in that fight, though

Frustrating. The Grey Lady is paying the price for hubris these days.

Just finished Babel, with an interesting premise about translation and the cross pollination of language. . Too bad the author didnt really do anything with it but opted for the nuts and bolts ending instead of taking it further. Babel, or the Necessity of Violence - Wikipedia

 

[E G Logan]

I took my latest AP Style Guide and Merriam Webster's Dictionary, the ones I'd been using for work, round to the book exchange booth outside the public library and placed them tenderly on a shelf, with a fine sense of finality.
I passed later in the week and was very surprised to see they had... gone. Given this is Italy and these are very technical US English language tools, it was something of a surprise.
I hope the new owner gets some fun out of them – I never did. I hated them both like poison.

 

[MattScho]

I took my latest AP Style Guide and Merriam Webster's Dictionary, the ones I'd been using for work, round to the book exchange booth outside the public library and placed them tenderly on a shelf, with a fine sense of finality.
I passed later in the week and was very surprised to see they had... gone. Given this is Italy and these are very technical US English language tools, it was something of a surprise.
I hope the new owner gets some fun out of them – I never did. I hated them both like poison.

I would have picked it up. Couple countries away, though. I consult with a group who insists they use AP style, but I'm not sure they know what that really means. I threw my last one away in 2017 when i left DC.

 

[E G Logan]

I would have picked it up. Couple countries away, though. I consult with a group who insists they use AP style, but I'm not sure they know what that really means. I threw my last one away in 2017 when i left DC.

You really need the latest one. And the effing Merriam Webster. At least if you are working for publication, or just being strict about it, you do. Every year stuff changes – as I'm sure you know – and while it's often completely piffling, once in a while it's not.

I used to put mine through as an expense, which eased the pain a little. Not the frustration, though.

 

[MattScho]

You really need the latest one. And the effing Merriam Webster. At least if you are working for publication, or just being strict about it, you do. Every year stuff changes – as I'm sure you know – and while it's often completely piffling, once in a while it's not.

I used to put mine through as an expense, which eased the pain a little. Not the frustration, though.

My stuff these days is the opposite of published. Being a consultant is weird

 

[Peyton Stafford]

What about the Chicago Manuel of style and the Oxford English dictionary? Anyone have an opinion on them?

 

[MattScho]

Chicago Manel is academic, right? I was asked to use it on a project for Princeton, but that was a one off.

 

[Peyton Stafford]

Chicago Manel is academic, right? I was asked to use it on a project for Princeton, but that was a one off.

yes. academic. but that can be good.

 

[E G Logan]

What about the Chicago Manuel of style and the Oxford English dictionary? Anyone have an opinion on them?

Anyone can use the Oxford English Dictionary for anything at all, so long as it's in British English. But it's not a style guide.

The Chicago Manual of Style, from the University of Chicago, is a US English style guide. You will need it for academic editing when the person commissioning the work specifically wants/needs to use Chicago. It has very strict rules on things, for example, like Notes, Bibliographies and Citations (their capitals, not mine) for academic papers. My advice, as a past academic editor, would be not to try to use it unless you have a good reason to, like you are required to.

The thing about style guides is they are professional tools – and they are hard work. If you are asked to use a specific one, you can't pick and choose, either using another one instead, or using only bits and pieces from the suggested one; it's all or nothing.

If you want a style guide you can flick through, The Economist Style Guide is probably the most readable. From The Economist magazine, it is British English, though, with British spelling, punctuation, grammar, etc.