They're taking the books!

[Rich.]

BBC News - When this eBook store closes, your books disappear too.

@Paul Whybrow, this made me think of your recent discussion, and rather adds fuel to the pro-paper-book fire!

 

[RK Wallis]

That's scary, I'd always thought once it downloaded it was yours, obviously not If I had a choice, this would drive me into the paperback's arms!

 

[Rich.]

Yeah, me too. I do have a choice, but I live in Spain, so to buy English-language books it's a choice between waiting for a physical delivery, a trip into the city, or a click on my Kindle. Clicking usually wins!

 

[Dan Payne]

There have been cases where, due to rights issues, Amazon removed books from its inventory, and they disappeared from people's Kindles. Other Kindle users have found books removed or their entire library deleted because they moved to a new country. It's all within the terms and conditions you agree to when you "purchase" a Kindle e-book. You don't own any of it; it's licensed to you, and that license can be revoked. (This is also the case for online movie services, etc. - even though you can "buy" perpetual access to a film, it can be deleted at any time. Presumably, the same with downloaded games and other media.)

I find e-books very useful (and they can be a lot cheaper than their paper versions). But if it's a book I intend to read more than once, paper is the way to go. Paper books are not subject to regional rights agreements (well, they are, which is a whole other discussion, but if you can get hold of a book published overseas, there's nothing stopping you bequeathing it to your descendants). Paper books can't be summarily repossessed by the seller. Besides, they look, feel, smell and read better, except that copy of Magician that got left outside that one time and now it smells funny.

 

[Paul Whybrow]

It's depressing how corporations control our lives these days. Five years ago, when I was researching different ways of self-publishing, I was put off by Amazon's controlling ways, so I've never published with them on anything but the basic level. Any digital purchase is effectively just a lease, with the CD, movie or ebook being a form of bug to gather usage information to target future marketing at you.

Your Digital 'Purchases' Are Not Really Yours

Talking of taking things back (and while I'm on my soapbox), I've always resented how mobile broadband providers are permitted to place a time limit on the credit allowance one purchases from them. I've praised giffgaff several times on the Colony, but even they grab back any remaining data balance I haven't used after a month. Imagine if a supermarket assistant came round to syphon off the olive oil you haven't used since you bought it a month ago. I don't understand how this is legal. Yes, I do—there's billions involved—money has changed hands under the table.

 

[Susan]

That clears things up. I read previously that you don’t own your ebooks but have also read claims that you do. Presumably it’s the same with digital music, films and games.

Quite a few ebook providers have shut down over the years or ceased operating in individual countries. Nook in the UK and Sainsbury’s spring to mind. In both cases their content shifted to another provider, Kobo if I remember rightly. I had books but didn’t lose them. Can’t see Amazon ever going bust or not being taken over in the unlikely event of financial disaster.

The only time I lost content was from a site that sold BBC radio content. I’d bought a bunch of plays and built up loads of loyalty points. There was a window of time to redownload the content and I missed it. Still gutted, actually.

 

[Dan Payne]

Fortunately or otherwise, vendors are moving away from the "purchaser" model. I used to own a bunch of audio CDs from an online provider. They closed and I lost the lot. They closed, mostly because of competition from entities like Google Play and Spotify. These days you don't purchase the content you want, you subscribe to a service and get access to their library. Netflix and a hundred other media companies for video; Spotify and a dozen others for audio; Audible for audio-books. Is it any wonder Amazon is pushing in this direction, with Kindle Prime? How long will it be before the only way to get an e-book is by subscribing to the vendor that hosts it? The model encourages vendors to curate a proprietary library, with unique access to media, explaining why you can get 21st Century Fox movies on Disney but not Netflix. How will this help authors when they have to pick and choose which providers will host their books - and which audiences will miss out?

 

[Susan]

I’m wondering what the launch of Britbox in the UK will mean for iplayer and ITVhub, and possibly ultimately for channels 4 and 5. Not to mention all the BBC content that will be removed from Netflix and the other subscription providers. Think I’ll be ditching live TV again and sticking with Netflix and Britbox.

 

[AgentPete]

An e-book “purchase” is in reality more like a software license. You can use it, until the supplier decides you can’t use it.

Interestingly, the licensing model is spreading far and wide… even has been speculation that Tesla would “license” their cars to you. Imagine that…

And who reads EULAs?

But coming back to e-books. For me, it’s becoming a somewhat second-rate experience. It’s cheaper, yes; it’s highly portable, yes; but it’s still a bit of a simulacrum. So really, I would never depend on e-books to be my main library. Just as well

 

[KateESal]

Yeah, me too. I do have a choice, but I live in Spain, so to buy English-language books it's a choice between waiting for a physical delivery, a trip into the city, or a click on my Kindle. Clicking usually wins!

I'm in the same situation as @Rich. And since I broke my wrist, I've appreciated the ease of handling that the e-reading experience offers. That was a useful aspect when I was breastfeeding, too. Also, when going on a trip, eBooks save so much physical space.

Incidentally, a friend of mine was telling me how he's reading so many more books since getting an e-reader, is happily investigating unknown authors and getting easier access to his preferred niche genre (gay romance).

Yes, it is infuriating that we often pay as much (if not more) for a single book-reading licence of a digital product (which costs less to produce) than we do for it's more beautiful physical equivalent. But perhaps we should regard it as a convenience tax.

Mind you, I would be spitting if I lost my family's digital library. I would like to see some sort of consumer safeguard against that happening. Some sort of backstop (controversial... ).

 

[DRFerron]

If I'm not mistaken, Kobo does not have the same licensing model as Kindle. When you purchase an ebook through Rakuten, it's your book. For that reason, unless the price difference is above a certain amount, I'll buy from Rakuten before I'll buy from Amazon. When I go to a different country I turn off the wifi access to the Kindle so books won't disappear.

Again, I may have misread but that's my understanding of books on Kobo. It may also be why I'm able to download updated ebooks on the Kindle but I haven't seen that feature on the Rakuten website.

 

[Susan]

If I'm not mistaken, Kobo does not have the same licensing model as Kindle. When you purchase an ebook through Rakuten, it's your book. For that reason, unless the price difference is above a certain amount, I'll buy from Rakuten before I'll buy from Amazon. When I go to a different country I turn off the wifi access to the Kindle so books won't disappear.

Again, I may have misread but that's my understanding of books on Kobo. It may also be why I'm able to download updated ebooks on the Kindle but I haven't seen that feature on the Rakuten website.

That’s interesting! I also buy from Kobo rather than Amazon whenever the price matches, mostly because I’m trying the VIP programme.

 

[KateESal]

If I'm not mistaken, Kobo does not have the same licensing model as Kindle. When you purchase an ebook through Rakuten, it's your book. For that reason, unless the price difference is above a certain amount, I'll buy from Rakuten before I'll buy from Amazon.

Yes, that IS interesting. My daughter has a Kobo, while I have a Kindle. Rakuten tend to charge more in my experience, but I'll let them off if they're letting us keep the ebooks...

 

[Susan]

Yes, that IS interesting. My daughter has a Kobo, while I have a Kindle. Rakuten tend to charge more in my experience, but I'll let them off if they're letting us keep the ebooks...

I check the prices of the Kindle monthly deal books against Kobo. You have to wait a few days for Kobo to catch up, but they usually do these days.

 

[KateESal]

I check the prices of the Kindle monthly deal books against Kobo. You have to wait a few days for Kobo to catch up, but they usually do these days.

Good news!

 

[DRFerron]

The other thing I like about Rakuten is that they make an effort to offer books from more non-US publishers and more independent publishers. Maybe that's because they aren't a US-owned company. They appear to deliberately target markets that Amazon ignores. While it's a marketing strategy for them, it means more choices in ebooks for me at a time when I'm trying to read as widely as possible.