Help Please! Reading a submissions guide – how do I NOT do this??

[E G Logan]

Perhaps someone more technically minded than me – that would be most people – can help with this.
Leaving aside the other issues of '*do I actually want to do this?' etc, can you tell me how I might avoid the following:

1. "Please use a first line indent on paragraphs, not tabs or (heaven forbid) multiple spaces."

I've been happily tabbing away at my paras, but clearly must stop. How do I do this "first line indent on paragraphs"... by other means?? In the past, when I've used Word's automatic para indent, it's given me some I don't want, which have then been the absolute devil to remove.


A second issue: I might well consider '*do I actually want to do this?' since the above is the first of a list of 11 absolute requirements –

"MANUSCRIPTS WILL BE REJECTED IF THEY DO NOT FOLLOW THEM"​

– which seem a little excessive since I'm only to be permitted a sample of 5,000 w for my submission. Or am I being unduly bolshy here?

 

[Robinne Weiss]

At the top of your screen in Word, there will be a 'ruler'. On the ruler are some little triangles. On the left side, two of those triangles will be on top of one another--click and drag the top one in to the point you want your indents to be on the first line of a paragraph. Now every time you hit return, you'll get an indent. (Forgive me if the 'little triangles' aren't triangles these days...I don't actually use Word anymore, but whatever those shapes are, you'll find them.)

 

[ChandlerJules]

At the top of your screen in Word, there will be a 'ruler'. On the ruler are some little triangles. On the left side, two of those triangles will be on top of one another--click and drag the top one in to the point you want your indents to be on the first line of a paragraph. Now every time you hit return, you'll get an indent. (Forgive me if the 'little triangles' aren't triangles these days...I don't actually use Word anymore, but whatever those shapes are, you'll find them.)

 

[ChandlerJules]

I know that frustration! And I am switching to Google Docs out of frustration with MS Word. Curious if anyone else is using Docs?

 

[Hannah F]

In Word, click the design tab then paragraph spacing then custom paragraph spacing then "first line". Now it will indent every new paragraph. The only ones that don't need indenting are the first in a chapter or the first in a break of scene. Once your MS is ready to go, press backspace before the first word of those paragraphs and those unwanted indents will disappear.

They don't like you using tabs or double spaces because different devices will show your text differently. Indenting properly means your work will remain indented whatever the device.

 

[CageSage]

from: https://colony.litopia.com/threads/formatting-word.10210/#post-118234
I suggest one Normal style that is indented (most of the mss), and one for Not-Indented (for the first para of a chapter/scene).

Creating a style is easier than it sounds.
Find the style in the ribbon/bar and right click the style you want to amend - I do this with heading styles all the time -
Right click and select Modify. It opens a display with options for the format of the style. Some on the open section, but if you want to use it for other documents, check 'New documents based on this template'. Some need more work, such as indenting, so click on the 'Format' and then paragraph and work through the things you need for this style.

To create a new style (which is what I did for the indent style), click on the button on the lower right of the style box (the one with a bar above the down-arrow head), and then create new (or create a style, depending on which version of Word you have), modify, and go through the same process as above, save it (or okay), and it's there for another day. However, when you open docs from other sources, you may not have your defined styles, so don't panic cos you know how to create and apply styles now, yes?

 

[Peyton Stafford]

You asked several question. To begin, what computer app do you write in?

 

[Brooke]

I know that frustration! And I am switching to Google Docs out of frustration with MS Word. Curious if anyone else is using Docs?

docs all the way over here! been using google products over microsoft for years now; it's all just way easier for me. docs, spreadsheets, forms, i even use my google keep to store notes. honestly the Word interface has become so clunky and old-fashioned looking for me, i almost cringe just looking at it, so i don't think i'll switch back anytime soon!

 

[E G Logan]

In Word, click the design tab then paragraph spacing then custom paragraph spacing then "first line".

Thank you SO much. That is very clear.

It was the 'how to get rid of the unwanted ones' bit I found teeth-grindingly difficult. In fact impossible. I'm sure I started with backspacing... and I went on to try most things.

But I've upgraded my Word, and my Mac systems, since then.

honestly the Word interface has become so clunky and old-fashioned

Word is still standard in academic editing, as far as I know – at least in some places – which was why I was using it. I was asked to use the latest version, and it was paid for!

 

[Brooke]

Word is still standard in academic editing, as far as I know

it is! i've always just written in google docs then saved it as a Word doc (because apparently you can do that for some reason?), then changed the formatting to fit in word. i'm super picky about how i write, and i'm too used to my usual setup (google docs in one tab, google keep in another, grammarly in the third) to change it though

 

[E G Logan]

i'm super picky about how i write, and i'm too used to my usual setup (google docs in one tab, google keep in another, grammarly in the third) to change it though

Same as me, just the other way round. But hey! what a dull world it'd be if we were all the same.

 

[Peyton Stafford]

I, too, prefer Google's office suite. To create a style, just read their help file. And if you export from Google's suite to a Microsoft format, it will come out in the latest MS version. I switched years ago, when I bought a new computer and a new version of MS Office. Importing my files from the previous version went badly, so I decided I would try Google's and have not looked back. That said, for writing long pieces, I use Scrivener. It, too, allows easy export to MS Word, and it formats for submission, so I don't even have to worry about creating a style.

 

[Robinne Weiss]

I hate Google Docs more than I hate Word. LOL! Right now I'm using Libre Office, which is ... meh ... The on-screen kerning is appalling (printed, it's fine), and it has a few odd glitches that can cause me grief. I also use Pages for some things, but I'm not overly fond of Pages, either. These days, my novels go straight from Scrivener to Affinity Design, so I'm not too fussed about the word processing application I use.

 

[Peyton Stafford]

I hate Google Docs more than I hate Word. LOL! Right now I'm using Libre Office, which is ... meh ... The on-screen kerning is appalling (printed, it's fine), and it has a few odd glitches that can cause me grief. I also use Pages for some things, but I'm not overly fond of Pages, either. These days, my novels go straight from Scrivener to Affinity Design, so I'm not too fussed about the word processing application I use.

I use it too, but it’s not that great.

 

[PCFrontier]

Hi E G Logan, if an agency/publisher/competition organizer is that petty I suggest choosing someone else to send your submission to. To me, it does not bode well for any future relationship.

I think if a literary agent/publisher sees a best seller land on their desk I don't think they will care what format the writing appears in.
Best wishes on your submission
Paul

 

[E G Logan]

i E G Logan, if an agency/publisher/competition organizer is that petty I suggest choosing someone else to send your submission to. To me, it does not bode well for any future relationship.

That was my thinking exactly. I seems hugely excessive when all they want to see is a 5,000w submission.
I'd feel justified in putting in the work to reformat my ms. exactly as they ask for a full submission...

Maybe this is how they keep the slush pile 'manageable'.

 

[Hannah F]

Hi E G Logan, if an agency/publisher/competition organizer is that petty I suggest choosing someone else to send your submission to. To me, it does not bode well for any future relationship.

I think if a literary agent/publisher sees a best seller land on their desk I don't think they will care what format the writing appears in.
Best wishes on your submission
Paul

I beg to differ. Agents/publishers/competitions receive all sorts in all sorts of fonts, spacings etc. If they read on some devices, your indents/double tabs/ returns to form page breaks won't work and will make their reading life difficult. They are busy people with LOTS of subs to go through. Agents/publishers also want to work with people who heed instructions/guidelines. What these people are asking for is the same as many others ask for. It is a way of making sure the work looks the same on their device as it does on yours. I say pay attention and do what they require. They are not being petty.

 

[CageSage]

Hi E G Logan, if an agency/publisher/competition organizer is that petty I suggest choosing someone else to send your submission to. To me, it does not bode well for any future relationship.

I think if a literary agent/publisher sees a best seller land on their desk I don't think they will care what format the writing appears in.
Best wishes on your submission
Paul

They won't know it's a bestseller if they don't read it. All the times I've read 'slush', there were guidelines, and they always started with 'formatted as specified'.

 

[E G Logan]

What these people are asking for is the same as many others ask for. It is a way of making sure the work looks the same on their device as it does on yours.

Mmm. I see what you are saying. I understand it now.
In fact, though, I have only ever seen one other person – an independent publisher – ask for this, and that was for a full ms.

But the other ten absolute requirements, and the tone of the 'guidelines'...? That message (above) in capitals is quoted directly, including the caps.

 

[CageSage]

Mmm. I see what you are saying. I understand it now.
In fact, though, I have only ever seen one other person – an independent publisher – ask for this, and that was for a full ms.

But the other ten absolute requirements, and the tone of the 'guidelines'...? That message (above) in capitals is quoted directly, including the caps.

Whether you see them or not, those req's are there. This is a list of req's I was given recently when assessing potential short stories for an anthology:

I recommend that you eliminate the following right away:

The wrong form. When you ask for short stories, some people send poems, articles and whole books. You don’t even need to read those to know they’re wrong.

Wrong genre. For example, you want Historical stories and the writers send Science Fiction. However, I recommend that you keep submissions which straddle genres, e.g. Historical Romance.

Not about the theme. Surprisingly many submissions don’t interpret the theme. The writers simply sent any story, merely inserting a brief mention. For example, if your anthology is about weddings, they sent a story about a birthday party and replace the word ‘birthday’ with ‘wedding’. Or they insert a dialogue line where a character mentions that she’ll soon be a bride. Be strict: if the story doesn’t revolve about the theme, it’s out.

In addition, here are two additional criteria I use for discarding stories at this stage:

Immature writing voice. New writers use the following words a lot: look, turn, could, start, begin, shrug, smile, sigh. As a result, their voices sound the same, and in an anthology, this would be dull. Also, if they haven’t developed their authentic voice yet, chances are, they haven’t mastered the art of plotting a great story either. Thus, if the first page of a manuscript is crammed with sighs, smiles, looks and turns, I know that this submission isn’t up the high standard I seek. You may decide to be more lenient about this, especially if you’re editing a for-the-luv project or showcase members of a beginner writers group.

Problem authors. Like many experienced anthology editors, I keep a list of writers whom I will not consider again. These include those who promised to send revised versions and didn’t, who responded to rejection with rants and insults, who acting like primadonnas expecting star treatment and better pay than the others. I simply don’t want to go through that again. My list also contains writers whom I’ve observed behaving badly in the social media, e.g. picking fights, trolling or insulting those of different faiths. I don’t want this sort of behaviour associated with the brand.

These req's weren't on the call for subs, but the req for Shunn formatting was there, as the only req apart from the theme.

Short Story Formatting - Shunn Manuscript Format Guidelines

A complete guide on how to format a manuscript for short story and novel submissions. Learn the Shunn manuscript format and why it's used

richiebilling.com

Classic Manuscript Format | William Shunn

Manuscript format for fiction writers, the way the professionals do it. It's the online formatting guide more editors point to than any other. Created by Hugo and Nebula Award nominated author William Shunn.

www.shunn.net

 

[Peyton Stafford]

I use Scrivener. It lets me format however I want as I write. Then it will export into industry standard formats, such as for short stories, screenplays, and novels. Everything from title page through appendices. If you write nonfiction, it is great for adding footnotes and endnotes. You don't have to format anything yourself. You write. Scrivener formats, and a lot more. It can export to whatever the newest .docx format is, or PDF, or ePub... And it costs $US 59.99 for a lifetime license. I bought my license over a decade ago and have used it for hours every day. Cannot say enough good about it.