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How to write and not die in the intent
- Thread starter Quillwitch
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Scary idea. But, Ithink we´ve known that for a while now. Same goes for Hollywood. But that´s not the point the video is trying to make, it´s actually trying to say --try NOT to beat yourself up over it.
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Sure, I got that. And I don't beat myself up over it. Its why I sling so much mud at the industry
I couldn't listen to this guy for any period of time. It's hard to believe he teaches because he's all over the place and it's painful to watch.
But it sounds like he eventually gets around to a good point? Let me go back and fast forward past his getting to the point part to his point part. Okay, I got the gist of it. But if I were him, I'd snatch this video off the internet tout de suite. It's not flattering.
If his point at the end is that the possibility of rejection isn't worth worrying about, and that tying your self worth to the success of your writing is silly, then yes, of course he's correct. That goes for anything anyone does. Ideally, self-esteem needs to be intrinsic rather than tied to external rewards, situations, or circumstances. But most occupations have a more externally focused reward system. Writing is one with intrinsic rewards punctuated by external rewards. But those external rewards would be the spice rather than the main dish. If you want to be celebrated, then you probably shouldn't be writing. I don't think it's a motivation which leads to good writing.
Blaming publishers or Hollywood for the lack of an external reward system is a victim mindset and sounds childish. The lack of an external reward system for writing didn't start in the last 100 years. It's just the way it is. Might be best to deal with it.
But it sounds like he eventually gets around to a good point? Let me go back and fast forward past his getting to the point part to his point part. Okay, I got the gist of it. But if I were him, I'd snatch this video off the internet tout de suite. It's not flattering.
If his point at the end is that the possibility of rejection isn't worth worrying about, and that tying your self worth to the success of your writing is silly, then yes, of course he's correct. That goes for anything anyone does. Ideally, self-esteem needs to be intrinsic rather than tied to external rewards, situations, or circumstances. But most occupations have a more externally focused reward system. Writing is one with intrinsic rewards punctuated by external rewards. But those external rewards would be the spice rather than the main dish. If you want to be celebrated, then you probably shouldn't be writing. I don't think it's a motivation which leads to good writing.
Blaming publishers or Hollywood for the lack of an external reward system is a victim mindset and sounds childish. The lack of an external reward system for writing didn't start in the last 100 years. It's just the way it is. Might be best to deal with it.
So, here is the translation:
Even if you are hoping to be published, which is a good thing--don´t sweat it. Easy as that. Never give up on your dream, but don´t sweat the journey. Focus on what´s important--family and friends and sanity, because your writing may or may not reach the expectations you were...well...expecting, and even when they do, there will always be a new summit to reach. I have an agent...i have a publisher...my book is published...it´s on NYT bestseller list...now i have to write another one in order to stay on top...so, again, focus on life and don´t sweat it.
Anyway, to whoever is interested, especially if you write for children and teens, writeon con is happing this weekend, it´s worth a look.
Even if you are hoping to be published, which is a good thing--don´t sweat it. Easy as that. Never give up on your dream, but don´t sweat the journey. Focus on what´s important--family and friends and sanity, because your writing may or may not reach the expectations you were...well...expecting, and even when they do, there will always be a new summit to reach. I have an agent...i have a publisher...my book is published...it´s on NYT bestseller list...now i have to write another one in order to stay on top...so, again, focus on life and don´t sweat it.
Anyway, to whoever is interested, especially if you write for children and teens, writeon con is happing this weekend, it´s worth a look.
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Thanks, the summary was helpful.
Most yous are general yous -- you'll be able to tell the difference. All wes are general wes. Us are general us. This is an editorial.
None of what I said is something you should take personally. It's a general comment on general things. I don't know if you do this. I also wasn't necessarily disagreeing with you. Hollywood makes a lot of crap and crappy books have always been published and authors have always been treated poorly by some publishers and some agents but most of all....it's always been a hard gig.
And that was my point. Don't look for sustenance where you won't find it. If you write with the expectation that people will tell you what you wrote is great, if you need them to tell you that what you wrote was great, then you probably don't need to be writing. It's not the sort of work which gives immediate material benefits whether it be in the form of monetary compensation or accolades. But ... doesn't everyone already know this?
And actually ... it doesn't benefit any of us to want applause over honest criticism especially from fellow writers. An honest critique is one of our best tools in terms of perfecting our craft.
Also... no, writers aren't performance artists and so no, applause doesn't apply and no a metaphor won't do. Visual artists also don't expect applause. There are different types of artists and it's the performance artists who get applause. Even playwrights, if there are still such things, have to wait forever and ever for any sort of applause or material reward. Writers have always had to hold on to their manuscripts, sometimes hopelessly, in the hopes of getting into print.
Visual artists create their work and then it sits there, sometimes forever. It might never be sold. It might never get a positive review. Sometimes, people don't like it. Yet, I know artists who've spent their entire lives creating. Why do they do this? They do it because they enjoy it. It's a form of love. They can't help themselves. They would be unhappy if they stopped.
It's always taken writers years, decades, forever to reap material rewards. So, yes, I absolutely believe the only reason to write is because you enjoy writing, not because you want money, or good reviews, or have expectations of other people. It's a solitary thing. There are places like litopia and writing communities but its still a solitary activity.
If people say nice things about your writing, great. It feels good. It feels wonderful.
None of us are entitled to recognition and demanding it or complaining because we aren't getting it isn't pretty. Which is the key word for me -- ENTITLEMENT. Everyone wants others to like their writing but expecting others to like your writing and complaining when they don't, well -- that's the stuff entitlement is made of.
It's especially confusing and actually .... I think ... more prevalent now that we can self-publish. If you self-publish, please don't cry if no one buys or likes your book. Please, get on with writing a different, better book. Or, maybe a better marketing strategy is needed. Or a better cover. Whatever the case, complaints about the sort of response you get to your writing, is out of place.
Most yous are general yous -- you'll be able to tell the difference. All wes are general wes. Us are general us. This is an editorial.
None of what I said is something you should take personally. It's a general comment on general things. I don't know if you do this. I also wasn't necessarily disagreeing with you. Hollywood makes a lot of crap and crappy books have always been published and authors have always been treated poorly by some publishers and some agents but most of all....it's always been a hard gig.
And that was my point. Don't look for sustenance where you won't find it. If you write with the expectation that people will tell you what you wrote is great, if you need them to tell you that what you wrote was great, then you probably don't need to be writing. It's not the sort of work which gives immediate material benefits whether it be in the form of monetary compensation or accolades. But ... doesn't everyone already know this?
And actually ... it doesn't benefit any of us to want applause over honest criticism especially from fellow writers. An honest critique is one of our best tools in terms of perfecting our craft.
Also... no, writers aren't performance artists and so no, applause doesn't apply and no a metaphor won't do. Visual artists also don't expect applause. There are different types of artists and it's the performance artists who get applause. Even playwrights, if there are still such things, have to wait forever and ever for any sort of applause or material reward. Writers have always had to hold on to their manuscripts, sometimes hopelessly, in the hopes of getting into print.
Visual artists create their work and then it sits there, sometimes forever. It might never be sold. It might never get a positive review. Sometimes, people don't like it. Yet, I know artists who've spent their entire lives creating. Why do they do this? They do it because they enjoy it. It's a form of love. They can't help themselves. They would be unhappy if they stopped.
It's always taken writers years, decades, forever to reap material rewards. So, yes, I absolutely believe the only reason to write is because you enjoy writing, not because you want money, or good reviews, or have expectations of other people. It's a solitary thing. There are places like litopia and writing communities but its still a solitary activity.
If people say nice things about your writing, great. It feels good. It feels wonderful.
None of us are entitled to recognition and demanding it or complaining because we aren't getting it isn't pretty. Which is the key word for me -- ENTITLEMENT. Everyone wants others to like their writing but expecting others to like your writing and complaining when they don't, well -- that's the stuff entitlement is made of.
It's especially confusing and actually .... I think ... more prevalent now that we can self-publish. If you self-publish, please don't cry if no one buys or likes your book. Please, get on with writing a different, better book. Or, maybe a better marketing strategy is needed. Or a better cover. Whatever the case, complaints about the sort of response you get to your writing, is out of place.
What @Amber said.
Appreciate the support dear lady.
Yeah, so...
I seriously don´t even know what to answer here. This video was simply an invitation to look at your writing process in a brighter light, and to give a shout out to writeoncon, an online children and YA writer´s conference.
If you guys actually watched the video within its context, you would see that there is no reason whatsoever to sling mud at it, or the concept of "hey, keep on writing, but be chill about it,". I find it ironic that you have found a way to actually create such a stir about it and have taken it to a whole different level.
It´s an informal video, the author mentions at the beginning that his children are asleep in the next room and that´s why he´s being quiet about. The guy is a keynote speaker. This is mostly for children´s writers.
It was his presentation I didn't like. But he was talking about reward systems and their relationship to motivation. He may not have used those words, but that is what he was talking about. What I wrote, in both of my posts, is in keeping with that topic.
But I'm sorry if you're upset.
I'm with you @Quillwitch. Seems some people missed the point by about a mile and a half. He was a little nervous but engaging and earnest enough.
Stop being disingenuous.
In response to the confusion, I will attempt to clarify by quoting, and explaining, my own post.
His delivery, not his message is criticized.
Again, his delivery and a recognition that his content has some merit.
Me, agreeing with him.
Some additional thoughts on the topic.
My personal opinion about people who spend their time complaining. Unless that's you, take no notice.
I can see how complainers may have been offended. But, I can't make anyone who likes to complain about the lack of rose wreaths thrown their way feel better about ... well ... the lack of rose wreaths thrown their way. I cant try. But the good feelings won't last. So, let the complaining continue.
In response to the confusion, I will attempt to clarify by quoting, and explaining, my own post.
His delivery, not his message is criticized.
Again, his delivery and a recognition that his content has some merit.
Me, agreeing with him.
Some additional thoughts on the topic.
My personal opinion about people who spend their time complaining. Unless that's you, take no notice.
I can see how complainers may have been offended. But, I can't make anyone who likes to complain about the lack of rose wreaths thrown their way feel better about ... well ... the lack of rose wreaths thrown their way. I cant try. But the good feelings won't last. So, let the complaining continue.
I didn't mean to upset anyone, either. I was simply agreeing with @Amber's assessment of what the video was saying, and her own spin on it as well.
And really, aren't we all basically voicing our opinions on the subject? We're going to have differing ones. That's okay. It means we're human.
But they're all valid, whether we agree with them or not. One person's opinion is not better than another's.
Okay? Okay.
And really, aren't we all basically voicing our opinions on the subject? We're going to have differing ones. That's okay. It means we're human.
But they're all valid, whether we agree with them or not. One person's opinion is not better than another's.
Okay? Okay.
I didn't mean to upset anyone, either. I was simply agreeing with @Amber's assessment of what the video was saying, and her own spin on it as well.
And really, aren't we all basically voicing our opinions on the subject? We're going to have differing ones. That's okay. It means we're human.
But they're all valid, whether we agree with them or not. One person's opinion is not better than another's.
Okay? Okay.
yes Carol, but did you watch the video? And did you not notice that the thing about Hollywood and editors has nothing to do with the video. That was directed at Howard and myself. "Blaming publishers or Hollywood for the lack of an external reward system is a victim mindset and sounds childish." -- First of all, we never said THAT, and second of all-- why the insult?
I'm not sure what it's going to take to convince you it wasn't personal.
This:
ONLY applies to you if you are unhappy with both the rewards you've received from the world at large AND you think it's the fault of publishers and/or Hollywood.
But you can take offense if you want. I've reassured you in every possible way I can think of and I've put a lot of time and effort into it. I'm starting to feel like I'm the one who should be pissed off.
This:
ONLY applies to you if you are unhappy with both the rewards you've received from the world at large AND you think it's the fault of publishers and/or Hollywood.
But you can take offense if you want. I've reassured you in every possible way I can think of and I've put a lot of time and effort into it. I'm starting to feel like I'm the one who should be pissed off.
I think I get it.
I have a friend from England. I was teasing him one day and he said, "You're winding me up." I think I have that verbatim....
Anyway, I was playing. We were laughing. I wasn't winding him up and then letting go, sending him off to collide into a third party. Because, that would be really mean-spirited, childish, weak, petty, and yes the list goes on....
I don't think you would wind someone up and no, AGAIN, my comments weren't directed at YOU. But I'm starting to wonder, did someone wind YOU up? If so, that's too bad. It's a little insulting to ask -- I think. But I'm asking anyway. You don't seem like the type of person to ignore it when someone tells you outright, "This wasn't about you." I hope that's not what is happening here. I hope no one is winding you up.
I'm sorry. What I said wasn't meant to insult you. If you felt insulted, all I can do is apologize. I don't know how to make that more clear. I hope you accept my apology.
No, it was NOT directed at you. That's what @Amber has said, more than once now. And I didn't insult you, either. I didn't insult either one of you, and neither one of us indicated you or Howard made that statement. You're taking that out of context. Please see Amber's posts above here. She's explained all this quite well. I can't add to it without repeating what she's already said.
At this point, you either believe us, or you don't. It's been explained six ways to Sunday, and we've both apologized. I really don't know what else either one of us can possibly say.
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AND, since this is no longer productive and has turned into a personal issue, I'm also asking that it please stop on this thread and go to PMs if anyone feels further discussion is warranted. Thank you.
Don´t worry about it. Thank you.
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