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This is just me, right? Perception of depth in lines of type

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Meerkat

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I'm seriously considering quitting writing.

I'm beginning to think I fell into writing because it was literally the only safe avenue I had to express myself for many years. I'm not actually sure I'm any good at it; I think it may have been my default.

I know that when I was a child, I considered myself an artist. I remember wanting to be an artist when I grew up. That, or a Native American. I was quite good at art, as I recall. I somehow stopped it because, as I said, I had no other safe avenue for expressing myself other than the written word.

I've quit before, as I've said on this board. Twice, and both times because I was so despondent about ever being any good.

The main thing is that I feel as if I don't know what I'm doing. I have no problem thinking of ideas, but I'm not sure I understand craft, and I'm big on knowing the rules. I was not fortunate enough to be able to attend a college that taught creative writing, so I've been reading books on craft, and I just feel as if there's no hope. I'm great with grammar, punctuation, usage, but do I and can I actually understand craft? And do I really have anything important to say? Where do I get off thinking that what I have to say is so all-fired important? I am not special or unique. I don't have an amazing, new perspective.

Understand that I am the most perseverant person on the plant. I do not suffer from sloth in any capacity. I never, ever give up on anything I want. I'm willing to undertake the hardest and most impossible tasks and have even forced myself to do things BECAUSE I was afraid to do them. But do I want this? And if so, why? Ego? A need to be heard? What's my motivation?

I honestly don't know what I want to do. I have a friend who's a professional artist, and she asked me why I couldn't be both an artist and a writer. Well, truly, my brain is not that good. I'm a one-passion kind of girl. Right now, it seems like it's art or writing, not both.

Not sure what I'm looking for here. I just really, really don't know what I want to do.
 
Don't do that. I've read your writing, and it's good.

Maybe all this reading about craft has made you over-think things a bit. Perhaps you just need to forget about the technical side of things and let the writing flow naturally, and worry about the technical aspects when you come to edit?

I get the feeling something has recently happened to make you start to doubt yourself -- if so, what?
 
I'm not sure there any 'rules': plenty of pointers, suggestions, etc, but what works in a book varies so enormously that it's ultimately only the reader's preferences that matter and there too you'll never please everyone. Lots of writers never 'studied' Creative Writing.
Writing should be fun though. If it isn't just now - take a break. There no compunction about having to be a writer, but if you've enjoyed it in the past you probably will again. Just concentrate on something else - your art, say - and walk away from the keyboard for a bit. Chances are that quite soon ideas will be jostling around clammering to be let out onto paper.
Good luck with whatever you decide.
 
I know what you mean, Kat. I don't think I'm anything special either. I don't even know if my work is worth reading, but some have said it is and that is sufficient for me. I never went to college. I just read a badly written book once and thought, "I can do better than this!" I had no idea how difficult it is. I've thought of quitting before, but if I did, I wouldn't feel like I belong here...and I have so many cool and obnoxious friends here...I'd miss them. Anyway, something must've happened to get you to doubt (like it was stated before). What was it? (you can send me an email, if you prefer). I haven't even read any of your work (which I would like!). Sometimes I feel that the only thing that might qualify me as a writer is I'm odd.
 
I understand your dilemma, I never attended any courses or anything on writing, I've literally learned everything from the good folk of Litopia. No wonder I never found a publisher for my book :) I also worry that I'm no good and people are just being polite, but I'm trying to get my head around the fact that it's true, I am good. Just think how awesome we would be with a little extra learning.
If you need a break, take one. I also draw and try to paint, I'm teaching myself so it's slow progress. Take some time for yourself.
 
You have to have faith to write anything, and that includes masses of blind faith! It often happens that people who like an artist's work get something out of it that the creator never saw or intended - it's impossible for us to be fully objective about what we produce as writers - we don't know how good we are.

There's an old Chinese saying about how ' the water that bears the ship is the same that engulfs it.' If you're having doubts about what you're doing, try sailing into different waters. When I find myself becalmed, I turn to writing poetry or song lyrics and this somehow opens a porthole in the hulk of my brain that lets me see new horizons.

Another great motivator is to read something that annoys you, an author you loathe and despise, someone who has no right in being published but who has somehow sold millions of books! I'd choose Jeffrey Archer as a hate figure, as he writes with all of the skill of a ten-year-old child, strewing his work with cliches and plagiarising better authors.

It was reading a couple of poorly-written books that lit a fire under my depressed self, back in 2013, and got me moving again creatively. As Stephen Drake commented, I thought "I could do better than this", and I believe that I have. That I'm unpublished is irrelevant, for one thing I've learnt about the publishing industry in the last two years is that artistic worth and commercial saleability do not always go hand-in-hand. Some dreadful crap succeeds.

Try reading some of your old stories as if someone else wrote them. You have good taste and know what works, so be a kind audience to yourself.
 
Writing is hard. I minored in creative writing at college, but they didn't teach me how to write. They taught me things like the value of critique groups and how to spot symbolism (which isn't all that significant in what I do -- genre writing).

To make up for that, I did the same thing: I read a whole bunch of writing books. You know what I learned from them? You get better at writing by writing. Simple as that. The books were helpful, but I figured out that I was stalling -- reading those books while I was too scared to write.

There are two ways to go about this: take a break and focus on something else or stop reading and start writing. Both are equally good choices. I started writing. But focusing on something else may give you space from your writing so you can better identify the root of the issue you're facing.

It can also provide a respite for your brain and you may find that after doing the "else" for a while, writing will start nagging at your brain. For right now, take a deep breath and think about it for a few days. There is no need to make a decision right this moment.
 
Nicole Wilson said:
I minored in creative writing at college, but they didn't teach me how to write. They taught me things like the value of critique groups and how to spot symbolism (which isn't all that significant in what I do -- genre writing).

To make up for that, I did the same thing: I read a whole bunch of writing books. You know what I learned from them? You get better at writing by writing. Simple as that.
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THIS. Exactly. :)
 
Paul Whybrow said:
You have to have faith to write anything, and that includes masses of blind faith! It often happens that people who like an artist's work get something out of it that the creator never saw or intended - it's impossible for us to be fully objective about what we produce as writers - we don't know how good we are.

There's an old Chinese saying about how ' the water that bears the ship is the same that engulfs it.' If you're having doubts about what you're doing, try sailing into different waters. When I find myself becalmed, I turn to writing poetry or song lyrics and this somehow opens a porthole in the hulk of my brain that lets me see new horizons.

Another great motivator is to read something that annoys you, an author you loathe and despise, someone who has no right in being published but who has somehow sold millions of books! I'd choose Jeffrey Archer as a hate figure, as he writes with all of the skill of a ten-year-old child, strewing his work with cliches and plagiarising better authors.

It was reading a couple of poorly-written books that lit a fire under my depressed self, back in 2013, and got me moving again creatively. As Stephen Drake commented, I thought "I could do better than this", and I believe that I have. That I'm unpublished is irrelevant, for one thing I've learnt about the publishing industry in the last two years is that artistic worth and commercial saleability do not always go hand-in-hand. Some dreadful crap succeeds.

Try reading some of your old stories as if someone else wrote them. You have good taste and know what works, so be a kind audience to yourself.
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@Porthole in the hulk of my brain
Oh, I do like that!
 
Not much to add as its been thoroughly covered above, and I can only agree. An author is an artist, only difference is they use words rather than paint. Sometimes a break is a good thing, but remember most if not all of us have doubts from time to time.
 
Alistair Roberts said:
Not much to add as its been thoroughly covered above, and I can only agree. An author is an artist, only difference is they use words rather than paint. Sometimes a break is a good thing, but remember most if not all of us have doubts from time to time.
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I completely agree. Self-doubt goes hand in hand with any creative pursuit, IMHO. :)
 
Thanks, all.

Well, the thing is, I always used to keep writing extremely close to my chest. I never told anybody I wrote, let alone showed anyone my stuff. I went to a couple of meetings of writing groups and could not bring myself to open my mouth at all, not even to comment on others' work.

Then I befriended a writer in real life, and he asked me to edit a book he'd written (because I was an editor at a newspaper during college). Somehow or other, I got bold enough about a year ago to show him a few things. Then gradually I started showing my stuff to other people to get other opinions. In fact, I only just showed my best friend a story -- the first of mine she'd read.

The problem was that I felt everyone was being too kind. Yes, everyone had suggestions to make the work better, but no one was ripping it apart, as I felt they should have. I am known IRL for being terribly sensitive, and I felt my readers were trying to spare me.

This bothered me, so what did I do? I sent a piece to my brother. Here's the deal with my brother: he is utterly brilliant in everything he has ever tried to do. Unfairly so! If he's ever had to work at anything, I don't know about it. He also has zero compunction about hurting my feelings--he says exactly what he thinks about everything. So I knew if I sent him something, he would spare no criticism.

So, of course, that's what he did. This particular piece had already been read by four different people. Two people said it was good with no suggestions; two other people made useful but minor suggestions that I incorporated. But my brother saw major problems with most of it and suggested a total rewrite. Of course, I choose to believe what HE says, instead of the other opinions.

You don't have to be a psychiatrist to see what I did there. I didn't like that people thought it was good, so I deliberately sought out someone who would rip it to shreds. I HAD thought I was gradually getting better as a writer (I pretty much only started writing seriously two years ago, about a year after I graduated college), but now I upbraid myself for my haste.

I had also gotten some criticism from the same writer friend not long ago -- he said my characters were not relatable or believable and that I should write about "sane people."

When I reread the junk I wrote as a teenager, I can see how awful it is. But at the time I was writing it, I didn't *know* it was awful, so I happily wrote away. The times that I have quit writing before were times that I began to be aware that what I was writing was bad. I don't find it possible to write when I am aware that I am not writing well. (I did find a way around this -- I have been writing drafts of stories longhand, in a notebook, because I have no tendency to critique writing when I do it longhand, as I do on the computer.)

Finally, I have never actually enjoyed writing. Seriously, I hate writing. I am well aware that many successful writers also absolutely hate writing, so this has not stopped me, but why am I putting myself through the daily misery of writing if I'm not any good at it? (By "not any good," I mean that I am failing to say what I meant to say in the way I meant to say it -- that's my yardstick for whether a piece worked.)
 
It occurs to me that I may be giving the impression that I am thinking of quitting because one person criticized me -- no, not really. It's more of an impatience with myself. Though I have the patience of a saint with other people, with myself I give no quarter. I tell myself that if I am not good yet, then I am wasting my time, because "obviously" all worthy writers were recognized as geniuses from birth. I am intellectually aware that this is hogwash, but can't convince myself to emotionally accept that. Thus I probably sought out the one person who would confirm my suspicion.
 
The problem was that I felt everyone was being too kind. Yes, everyone had suggestions to make the work better, but no one was ripping it apart, as I felt they should have. I am known IRL for being terribly sensitive, and I felt my readers were trying to spare me.
​
I was this way for a long time. What I did to get less sensitive was to join a writers group where I knew people would be honest. And I stuck with it for four years. I am still protective of my work (because it's my baby and I worked hard to get those words out), but I know that if I take a step back and wait fifteen minutes, comments will be in a more objective light. Then I gave it to people who knew me as the sensitive person and told them to be very honest--that it wouldn't do me much good unless they were honest.

So, of course, that's what he did. This particular piece had already been read by four different people. Two people said it was good with no suggestions; two other people made useful but minor suggestions that I incorporated. But my brother saw major problems with most of it and suggested a total rewrite. Of course, I choose to believe what HE says, instead of the other opinions.

You don't have to be a psychiatrist to see what I did there. I didn't like that people thought it was good, so I deliberately sought out someone who would rip it to shreds. I HAD thought I was gradually getting better as a writer (I pretty much only started writing seriously two years ago, about a year after I graduated college), but now I upbraid myself for my haste.​

That's ONE person's opinion on your piece. Get others who will be honest--not brutal for the sake of brutal--and see if their opinion matches.

I had also gotten some criticism from the same writer friend not long ago -- he said my characters were not relatable or believable and that I should write about "sane people."
​
Ditto - and honestly, perfectly sane people aren't always the most interesting. Write what you want to write. Not what others dictate that you should write. If it's something you would read, then I guarantee you, you aren't the only person out there who would read it.

When I reread the junk I wrote as a teenager, I can see how awful it is. But at the time I was writing it, I didn't *know* it was awful, so I happily wrote away. The times that I have quit writing before were times that I began to be aware that what I was writing was bad. I don't find it possible to write when I am aware that I am not writing well. (I did find a way around this -- I have been writing drafts of stories longhand, in a notebook, because I have no tendency to critique writing when I do it longhand, as I do on the computer.)
​
You know why? Because you've grown as a writer. That will never stop. You will never reach perfection. You will look back at the stuff you're writing right now in ten years and think "crap that's horrible." All authors I know say that about their early works. That's how it is.

Finally, I have never actually enjoyed writing. Seriously, I hate writing. I am well aware that many successful writers also absolutely hate writing, so this has not stopped me, but why am I putting myself through the daily misery of writing if I'm not any good at it? (By "not any good," I mean that I am failing to say what I meant to say in the way I meant to say it -- that's my yardstick for whether a piece worked.)
​
Do you enjoy having written? Do you enjoy any part of the process? I hate writing, too, but I love having that finished manuscript in my hand. That's why I keep writing. And the way to work on your measure of "not any good" is to keep writing. Like I said before, you will only get better at writing by writing more.

Thus I probably sought out the one person who would confirm my suspicion.
​
I get this. But you need to show your work to someone who will give you an honest answer, not just rip it to shreds. And you need to approach them saying "be honest", not "rip it to shreds." It will taint how they view the piece.

I hope some of this is helpful. I am fully aware of the struggle that you're going through. Don't lose hope just yet. Let it sit for a week. Then decide.
 
I enjoy thinking of ideas, researching for a story, and freewriting about it. I despise the actual writing. I then enjoy the editing and rewriting and finally having the finished piece. That is why I do keep at it.

I'm actually not sure I told him to rip it to shreds; I may just have said "tell me what you think."

@Nicole Wilson, yes, all of your post was helpful.
 
You ask why you're putting yourself through this. I think you're the only one who can answer that. What do you hope to accomplish from this? And by that I mean, what's your end goal? What will that look like when you reach it? What do you see changing about you or your life because of it? Perhaps visualizing these kinds of things will help you decide if this is really want you want to work toward.
 
No one piece of work will suit everybody's tastes. So any given piece of work will attract savage criticism from someone. Just because somebody savages something you've written doesn't necessarily mean it's bad. They may or may not have valid points, and you may or may not be able to improve the piece in light of their comments. If you listen to other peoples criticisms uncritically, you may end up writing the piece they would have written rather than the piece you want to write. In the end, I think we have to make a judgement as to whether what we are writing is good enough for us to leave it and to move on to the next piece of work. And in your case, that is exactly what I would do. If I were you, I'd stop worrying about what others think of what you've written; instead, write the next thing.
 
TBH I'm surprised any successful writer hates writing? Really? Then why are they writing? I know of no successful writer who does it for the money but ha, I could be wrong. You either love it or do it because you HAVE to write. If you don't like it, don't IMHO. Self doubt is normal, I often wonder if I should, but the story has to be told, and that is the important factor. You 'feel' the story, or you don't. You'll never get 100% to like your work, and never get 100% to dislike it. Do it if you want, in the end it's your "baby" ;)
 
Alistair Roberts said:
TBH I'm surprised any successful writer hates writing? Really? Then why are they writing? I know of no successful writer who does it for the money but ha, I could be wrong. You either love it or do it because you HAVE to write. If you don't like it, don't IMHO. Self doubt is normal, I often wonder if I should, but the story has to be told, and that is the important factor. You 'feel' the story, or you don't. You'll never get 100% to like your work, and never get 100% to dislike it. Do it if you want, in the end it's your "baby" ;)
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Writing is such a broad term, though. Do you mean the actual physical act of creating new words? Or the whole process? Because the new words is the worst part for me. I can plot, outline, edit, and revise fine. But creating is freaking hard for me. But I write because, as George RR Martin said, "I like having written."
 
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Meerkat said:
I'm seriously considering quitting writing.

I'm beginning to think I fell into writing because it was literally the only safe avenue I had to express myself for many years. I'm not actually sure I'm any good at it; I think it may have been my default.

I know that when I was a child, I considered myself an artist. I remember wanting to be an artist when I grew up. That, or a Native American. I was quite good at art, as I recall. I somehow stopped it because, as I said, I had no other safe avenue for expressing myself other than the written word.

I've quit before, as I've said on this board. Twice, and both times because I was so despondent about ever being any good.

The main thing is that I feel as if I don't know what I'm doing. I have no problem thinking of ideas, but I'm not sure I understand craft, and I'm big on knowing the rules. I was not fortunate enough to be able to attend a college that taught creative writing, so I've been reading books on craft, and I just feel as if there's no hope. I'm great with grammar, punctuation, usage, but do I and can I actually understand craft? And do I really have anything important to say? Where do I get off thinking that what I have to say is so all-fired important? I am not special or unique. I don't have an amazing, new perspective.

Understand that I am the most perseverant person on the plant. I do not suffer from sloth in any capacity. I never, ever give up on anything I want. I'm willing to undertake the hardest and most impossible tasks and have even forced myself to do things BECAUSE I was afraid to do them. But do I want this? And if so, why? Ego? A need to be heard? What's my motivation?

I honestly don't know what I want to do. I have a friend who's a professional artist, and she asked me why I couldn't be both an artist and a writer. Well, truly, my brain is not that good. I'm a one-passion kind of girl. Right now, it seems like it's art or writing, not both.

Not sure what I'm looking for here. I just really, really don't know what I want to do.
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So this thread has been for a while, and I'm sorry to arrive late. I read... like half of the responses, and completely agree. Marc, I also see what you did there.

Kate, no one just falls into writing — you are writing because you have something you need to say. And one cannot be "good" at it until first putting out and flushing down a lot of crap. I haven't read you yet, but I implicitly trust Marc and Carol's literary eye; if they say you're good — you're good.

Now, it can be effing frustrating. But I suspect you couldn't stop even if you wanted to.

And one thing I read about college creative writing that was interesting to me was that it is often taught by people the publishing community, not writers — and if publishers could write, they would publish themselves. They need us, so why would they presume to try to teach us? For the most part, you have to find your own way. College isn't one path — it's one tool.

Keep that chin tucked in. You've got more fight in you still.
 
Meerkat said:
Finally, I have never actually enjoyed writing. Seriously, I hate writing. I am well aware that many successful writers also absolutely hate writing, so this has not stopped me, but why am I putting myself through the daily misery of writing if I'm not any good at it? (By "not any good," I mean that I am failing to say what I meant to say in the way I meant to say it -- that's my yardstick for whether a piece worked.)
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Okay...so this really spoke to me, but not about writing...about music. I record lots of stuff, but take long breaks in between bouts of even playing the instruments I have at home. I LIKE playing my instruments, but putting anything permanent down is extremely frustrating to the point that it often angers me. I can sit in front of my computer for hours - recording, rerecording, mixing, etc. - and still not be anywhere near where I want my work to be. I've produced stuff that I'm proud of, but I feel like its music that no one else will be interested in. That just adds to the frustration.

I agree with what @Carol Rose said above, "Self-doubt goes hand in hand with any creative pursuit, IMHO.". I can't tell you how many times I've doubted myself when recording music, only putting down half a song or scrapping what I have before I'm even close to being finished. On the flip side, when I DO persevere, I wind up with stuff that I think is truly charming. It's always hard to get there, but I eventually do.

Right now, I'm on one of those breaks I described earlier. I've maybe touched a guitar only once or twice this year. Hell, when Astrid (my wife) moved in earlier this year, I put my Les Paul in its case for the first time in over two years. It was a strange feeling not having it sit beside me. That's how creativity is, though. You put some things away, only to pick them up later, dust them off, and dive right back in. I'm sure that in a year or so, I'll open that guitar case again and tune my guitar. After that, I'll play it - make music - and feel that same mix of happiness and frustration all over again.

If you need to, take a break, but don't quit. Never quit. There's too much creativity deep down inside that still needs to get out. :)
 
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