Endless Edits

[Rick Hall]

I am not convinced he's going to be able to tie up all those loose ends in one book. But if he has to write a fourth/split the third into two parts, I will not mind at all. Give us a great story, and I'll forgive the wait.

That's what happened with Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time. When he knew he was going to die, and wanted to hand off the conclusion to Brandon Sanderson, Jordan's notes said he expected to tie up the series in one final book. But when Sanderson looked at it, he realized that was impossible, and had to release THREE books to finish the series

 

[Rich.]

I just keep seeing him on Twitter, talking about the latest game he's developing, or the cool Name of the Wind playing cards he's released, or the 10th anniversary edition of NOTW ... and I despair at ever seeing another book.

I know. You can't fault him for making hay while the sun shines, but... but... AAAAAAAAAAAHHH!!!!

That's what happened with Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time.

You know *covers eyes in shame*, I've never read this, which I guess is like a fantasy fan saying they've never read The Lord of the Rings. It's on the list, but damn the list is long.

 

[Nikky Lee]

You know *covers eyes in shame*, I've never read this, which I guess is like a fantasy fan saying they've never read The Lord of the Rings. It's on the list, but damn the list is long.

Don't feel too bad @Rich. I only recently finished the first book of Jordan's saga and, honestly, wasn't that enamored with it. Perhaps it gets better in later books—so I'll persist with the series for now. However, it might be a while before I get to it, there are so many other things I want to read first!

I've never properly read Lord of the Rings either, and I even studied it at uni! (I skimmed most of it). I love the ideas it has, but I just couldn't get into the writing. That said, I read The Hobbit years ago and enjoyed it a lot. Again, one day I might come back to it, but probably not any time soon.

 

[Rick Hall]

I only recently finished the first book of Jordan's saga and, honestly, wasn't that enamored with it.

Well, everyone has those sorts of taste/tolerance issues, where we can't bring ourselves to admire something that huge crowds love. For me, it's present tense writing. I really liked the Hunger Games movies, but couldn't bring myself to read further than chapter 5 of the first book. I find present tense unforgivably awkward. It's probably my engineering background, but my brain experiences some kind of divide by zero error with present tense stories. By definition, anything that has been committed to print MUST have happened in the past. My brain refuses to simply set that aside. The technique is "supposed to" bring the reader closer to the action, but it has the exact opposite effect on me. I'd sooner listen to Ben Stein narrate a thriller than read a present tense novel.

 

[KateESal]

I'd sooner listen to Ben Stein narrate a thriller than read a present tense novel.

That cuts out the majority of the YA genre then!

Present tense writing has become something of a trope in itself, I find.

Some authors are artists when using the present tense, though. Helen Dunmore, for example.

 

[Rick Hall]

The last statistic I saw put present tense at 65% of YA. With more than 10,000 YA novels coming out every year, that leaves 3,500 to read per year that are past tense. I'm not worried about running out of options.

 

[Rich.]

So, last weekend we went to see this amazing exhibition of aeroplanes.

We walk in, and my goodness you wouldn't believe the size of the place! There are planes upon planes upon planes spreading off in all directions. We walk up to the ticket booth, but I can barely keep my feet for looking around. The place is huge!

--

The funny this is, in everyday speech, we tell stories in present tense, mixed tense even, all the time and no one bats an eyelid.

This is merely an observation, not so much a defense. I don't mind present tense fiction, but it can draw attention to itself when it's not done well.

 

[Rick Hall]

Lol. True. Although if I wrote in the same way that people routinely butcher grammar in the spoken word, I’m going to go out on a limb and guess that it wouldn’t be deemed an adequate justification. Fortunately, the world is filled with styles. There's something for everyone.

 

[Katie-Ellen]

I just responded to an excerpt in Writers Seeking Readers, Rick, but couldn't post the feedback. Do I gather you pulled the thread?

 

[Rick Hall]

Yes, I deleted the thread. My apologies if I inadvertently wasted any of your time. I didn't realize anyone had looked at it.

 

[Rick Hall]

The world's best medicine

 

[Katie-Ellen]

Yes, I deleted the thread. My apologies if I inadvertently wasted any of your time. I didn't realize anyone had looked at it.

I only found out when I tried to post the feedback.
Long story short, and I must respect your privacy so can say no more, I thought it had a lot going for it.

 

[Marc Joan]

The world's best medicine
View attachment 2621

One day, I will have a dog. Job does not permit at present, which gnaws at me.

 

[Sea-shore]

Lots of good advice on this thread. I would add, just keep writing. It's the journey, not just the destination.

 

[Katie-Ellen]

The trouble is, like with writing a poem, it can never be perfect, but no-one will ever know all the stuff you cut out.

Books aren't written, they're rewritten. Including your own. It is one of the hardest things to accept, especially after the seventh rewrite hasn't quite done it..." - Michael Crichton

 

[HDKeller]

I've enjoyed reading this thread. I guess most of us are struggling with the same things. I have decided to start writing book 2 and give querying for book 1 a rest for a little while, just to remind myself that I enjoy the process of writing. I'm feeling like my topic my be out of vogue too.

 

[Susan]

I've seen lots of advice that claims you shouldn't submit a manuscript until you've polished it to the point that you can think of no way to improve it. That has proven to be a high standard for me. There's ALWAYS something that can be improved. I'm reasonably sure I could continue editing my current manuscript for the rest of my life, and it would probably continue to experience incremental improvement the entire time.

What kind of changes are you making? Serious ones or just prettying up some sentences? Until recent weeks, I’ve been caught in the trap of changing a few words here and there, only to change them back during yet another edit. That’s the way to madness. Are you sure the issues are as major as you think?

I agree 100% that you should put the manuscript aside for a few weeks or months. Come back with fresh eyes and renewed enthusiasm.

 

[Rick Hall]

What kind of changes are you making? Serious ones or just prettying up some sentences?

I finished up the major edits quite some time ago, but you can always think of new ways to word things, additional affects, efficiencies. You can do it pretty much forever, although that's obviously not a good idea.

 

[Susan]

I finished up the major edits quite some time ago, but you can always think of new ways to word things, additional affects, efficiencies. You can do it pretty much forever, although that's obviously not a good idea.

I feel your pain. If I were you, I’d put it aside for a month. Return when you miss it, when you love it again. Then keep going until you’ve made those efficiencies, but be careful about ‘new ways to word things’ - as you say, there will always be ways to do that. Don’t edit the life out of it. Additional effects - does it really need them?

 

[Andrew Okey]

Andrew - YA Urban Fantasy, although given the loose definitions of these things, some might want to call it a YA SciFi Thriller. It's about a 17-year-old parkour enthusiast who has a sentient virus living in her brain. The virus has the personality of a 10-year old boy named Alexander, and he's telepathic.

Sorry about the (spectacularly) slow reply, Rick - I've been abroad and then wrapped up in (coming frustratingly close to winning) a writing contest.

I know every thread on Litopia always leads to a rash of book recommendations, so why should this one be any different? Your set-up made me thinking of Brian Stableford's "Hooded Swan" series - I don't usually like sci-fi but these are remarkable works, about a man who picks up a brain parasite on a deserted planet and finds that the symbiosis has its uses, though is also permanently uncomfortable to a misanthrope who wants to be alone. If you haven't read them it might give you some ideas. And that doesn't detract from your idea at all, by the by - I love the idea of the virus having the personality of a child. Sounds great.

 

[Paul Whybrow]

I'm nearing the end of re-editing the first Cornish Detective novel I wrote, back in 2014. I hadn't looked at the manuscript for 18 months, so dusting it off revealed both pleasant surprises and d'oh moments, when I noticed something I'd somehow missed in one hundred previous editing trawls.

When I last did a major edit, I was motivated by such advice as given by writing gurus like Diana Urban. She and others commonly recommend removing the word 'that', provided it doesn't alter the meaning on the sentence. I'd done a lot of 'that' hunting back in 2017, eliminating many of them. Returning to the manuscript, I put a lot of them back in, to aid readability. There's a big difference between taking out such filler words when writing dialogue, and expressing your own self as the omnipotent narrator. Vernacular speech patterns aren't often perfectly phrased, yet understandable communication happens, whereas being an author means getting your ducks in a row if you don't want to sound like a mumbling idiot!

Editing can become an endless and thankless task. Even though I know that a professional editor will find things to correct, I want to present the best version of my work that I can, so I continue. It feels a bit like polishing grains of sand in a desert: I do it, but it still looks like a desert when I'm finished.