E.L. Doctorow

[Paul Whybrow]

I'm sorry to hear of the death of E.L. Doctorow. He's one of my literary heroes. Try reading Ragtime or Homer and Langley, if you haven't done already.

http://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/jul/22/author-el-doctorow-dies-in-new-york-aged-84

He said many wise things about writing, including the much-quoted :

'Writing is like driving at night in the fog. You can only see as far as your headlights, but you can make the whole trip that way.'

http://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/jul/22/el-doctorow-in-quotes-15-of-his-best

 

[Katie-Ellen]

I read his civil war epic. The March.

(I see from your link, he hated semi-colons, thought they had no proper use in a story.)

 

[Paul Whybrow]

I read his civil war epic. The March.

(I see from your link, he hated semi-colons, thought they had no proper use in a story.)

Kurt Vonnegut hated semi-colons too - ‎"Here is a lesson in creative writing. First rule: Do not use semicolons. They are transvestite hermaphrodites representing absolutely nothing. All they do is show you've been to college."

 

[Jason Byrne]

I went to college; I still didn't know how to use a semicolon.

 

[Paul Whybrow]

These days, the semi-colon and colon tend to be replaced with a dash. I'm ancient, and studied English Grammar and what was known, back in the 1960s, as English Composition, but I've forgotten much of what was drummed into me.
There's this, if you're feeling pedantic :

http://writingcenter.unc.edu/handouts/semi-colons-colons-and-dashes/

 

[Jason Byrne]

These days, the semi-colon and colon tend to be replaced with a dash. I'm ancient, and studied English Grammar and what was known, back in the 1960s, as English Composition, but I've forgotten much of what was drummed into me.
There's this, if you're feeling pedantic :

http://writingcenter.unc.edu/handouts/semi-colons-colons-and-dashes/

Wow. Nicely done! I would choose not to capitalize a colon setting off an independent clause. Takers?

 

[Nicole Wilson]

I almost never use semicolons in fiction, much to my chagrin because I'm one of the select breed that actually knows how to use them. But I've been told by several people that they just don't have a place in fiction. I tend to agree, except for a few rare exceptions decided on a case by case basis.

 

[Jason Byrne]

I almost never use semicolons in fiction, much to my chagrin because I'm one of the select breed that actually knows how to use them. But I've been told by several people that they just don't have a place in fiction. I tend to agree, except for a few rare exceptions decided on a case by case basis.

Depends on your style. With a thriller, punchy and fast-paced, I'll bet you're right. You're like that retired samurai that tends a flower garden now, but can wipe out the whole town when it hits the fan. Except with semicolons.

Mine is more florid, courtly, formal fantasy stuff, so I use it.

 

[Katie-Ellen]

I like them when reading, when the story's having a measured, reflective moment. They wouldn't do in dialogue, or in an action sequence

 

[Bernard Stacey]

Kurt Vonnegut hated semi-colons too - ‎"Here is a lesson in creative writing. First rule: Do not use semicolons."

I always feel that this sort of zealot-type absolutism in writing is done merely for notoriety's sake as it is clearly in the same nonsense bracket as 'You're only allowed one exclamation mark per 100,000 words', or advice not to split infinitives. All these things can have a place and of course no one wants to see them strewn about with no thought but to insist that they are in some way off limits is as logical as saying that the word 'trousers' should never appear in a story.

 

[Katie-Ellen]

Like that saying of Winston's Churchill, cocking a snook at the rule about not ending a sentence with a preposition: "Not ending a sentence with a preposition is a bit of arrant pedantry up with which I will not put. "

 

[Jason Byrne]

I always feel that this sort of zealot-type absolutism in writing is done merely for notoriety's sake as it is clearly in the same nonsense bracket as 'You're only allowed one exclamation mark per 100,000 words', or advice not to split infinitives. All these things can have a place and of course no one wants to see them strewn about with no thought but to insist that they are in some way off limits is as logical as saying that the word 'trousers' should never appear in a story.

I use exclamation marks a lot! I just never let two touch each other.

I also use the word trousers, though... oh wait — you're joking.

 

[Jason Byrne]

Like that saying of Winston's Churchill, cocking a snook at the rule about not ending a sentence with a preposition: "Not ending a sentence with a preposition is a bit of arrant pedantry up with which I will not put. "

He would have been better served ordering it "It is not something I will put up with, this ending a sentence in a preposition."

I actually adhere to that rule, but out of a conscious style choice — I like Victorian style, and that's when they randomly tried to cram Latin grammar rules into English and forbade the practice.

 

[Katie-Ellen]

That was his kind of joke

Winston - if I was your wife, I would give you poison (Was it Nancy Astor?)
Madam, if I was your husband, I would drink it.

 

[Jason Byrne]

That was his kind of joke

Winston - if I was your wife, I would give you poison (Was it Nancy Astor?)
Madam, if I was your husband, I would drink it.

Churchill was awesome. Nancy Astor sounds right... resisting urge to Google mightily...

 

[AgentPete]

I’ve always rather fancied one for a pet; I think it would look rather like a lemur – or is that a gerund I’m thinking of?

 

[Katie-Ellen]

I can see a gerund. It will have tufty ears, for sure.