Book Length...long is good?

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Paul Whybrow

Full Member
Jun 20, 2015
Cornwall, UK
This article in The Economist surprised me a lot, for when they analysed the ratings given to books by readers on Goodreads, there was a bias towards long tomes:

How long is the perfect book?

It could be argued, that in a recession people go for items that appear to offer greater value. Perhaps, when the economy is prospering, there's an upsurge in consumption of highly priced 'fun-sized' disposable items, including short books. Remember the Penguin Mini Modern Classics?

A couple of years ago, writing gurus predicted that there'd be an increase in sales of flash fiction, short stories and novellas, as so many readers consumed writing on handheld devices while commuting or on work breaks. But, in the last few months, publishing industry experts have noted a decline in the sale of novellas. This explains why so many novella-length books are being called novels—hoodwinking readers into thinking they've achieved something worthy.

The worst example of this I've read is the highly-praised The End We Start From, by Megan Hunter, which at 160 widely spaced pages and 48,800 words is hardly long enough to be described as a novel.

Having said that, recently, I've been re-reading old favourites not looked at for decades, which have through time been labelled as classics. I borrowed a copy of John Steinbeck's Cannery Row (first published in 1945) from my local library, surprised that the Penguin paperback edition is only 163 pages long. Looking on the Reading Length website, it's 46,110 words, which is little more than novella length.

This article on book-length offers some useful advice:

How Long Should My Novel Be?

I've been targetting my Cornish Detective novels at about 80,000 words, based on widespread advice that this is a sensible compromise between content and length for a debut author. I chafe at the bit a little, for I'd be able to do more characterisation at 100,000 words.

I'm not sure what it means, but in my recent campaign of querying literary agents—21, so far, and counting—three of them stipulated that the finished novel should be at least 60,000 words long. Perhaps they've received lots of undersized manuscripts.

When looking at long books for reading matter, I tend to be influenced more by subject matter and whether I've read the author before, than by the thought that it might take me several weeks to finish. I've read several very long novels in recent years, including Neal Stephenson's Reamde at 1,056 pages and 322,080 words and at a bit more than half that length, Donna Tartt's A Secret History which clocks in at 576 pages and 192,705 words.

If readers see long books as better value for money than normal length offerings of 300-350 pages, then they'd be delighted to acquire Ursula K. Le Guin's Earthsea Quartet for 25p, as I just did in my local charity shop. I haven't read it before, so I'm looking forward to getting lost in another world. At 691 pages long, it will keep me occupied for a while.

How long are the books you write?

What's the longest book you've read?

If you favour audiobooks, do you listen to long books that way?

Book-HUGE.jpg
 
As a student I read Ulysses by Joyce, 265,000 words, but I thought his Portrait of an Artist as a Young Man at 72,000 words was much more enjoyable. We also were supposed to read Clarissa by Richardson at c 969,000 words and again his Pamela at 156,000 words was more palatable- needless to say I skipped most pages of Clarissa but still got my BA anyway.

The books I'm querying are from 60,000 to 90,000 words. And the book I'm writing now The Devil's Whore will be pretty short too- I think demons are more effective if their appearance is short and sharp. I haven't yet figured out how long the one on the kidnapping of the US general by the Red Brigades is going to be, and I still haven't figured out a genre for that one either.
 
How long are the books you write?
The first MS I wrote came in at around 80,000, the second at 100,000 and now the third currently stands at 137,000... This does not bode well for whatever I write next...

What's the longest book you've read?
According to readinglength.com the longest I've read is Rothfuss's Wise Man's Fear at 341,600 words. Funny thing, it felt a lot shorter. I remember my dismay when I realised I only had about 50 pages left and wishing it would just go on. I've had the same experience with most of Robin Hobb's work (often between 180k-320k). But for various reasons, Robert Jordan's Eye of the World (208k) felt very long.

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If you favour audiobooks, do you listen to long books that way?
I love being read to and I do most of my "reading" through audiobooks. I find them especially good for getting into slow burn books that I might otherwise put down if I were reading them in hardcopy. That said, there are a few authors that I did struggle to listen to—not because the story was dry or slow, but because they packed so much meaning into their sentences. William Gibson was one. Tune out for a heartbeat and you get lost quickly. I had to really pay attention when I listened to his Blue Ant series.

Length doesn't bother me too much choosing audiobooks. However, if it's going to be 30 hours long, I may go read the reviews first to decide if it is worth the investment of time.
 
How long are the books you write?
The first MS I wrote came in at around 80,000, the second at 100,000 and now the third currently stands at 137,000... This does not bode well for whatever I write next...

What's the longest book you've read?
According to readinglength.com the longest I've read is Rothfuss's Wise Man's Fear at 341,600 words. Funny thing, it felt a lot shorter. I remember my dismay when I realised I only had about 50 pages left and wishing it would just go on. I've had the same experience with most of Robin Hobb's work (often between 180k-320k). But for various reasons, Robert Jordan's Eye of the World (208k) felt very long.

View attachment 3266

If you favour audiobooks, do you listen to long books that way?
I love being read to and I do most of my "reading" through audiobooks. I find them especially good for getting into slow burn books that I might otherwise put down if I were reading them in hardcopy. That said, there are a few authors that I did struggle to listen to—not because the story was dry or slow, but because they packed so much meaning into their sentences. William Gibson was one. Tune out for a heartbeat and you get lost quickly. I had to really pay attention when I listened to his Blue Ant series.

Length doesn't bother me too much choosing audiobooks. However, if it's going to be 30 hours long, I may go read the reviews first to decide if it is worth the investment of time.
I love audio books... you can listen to them in the bath, while gardening, scrubbing the floor, sewing, knitting, painting. Maybe the concentration isn't as good but you certainly get more things done during the day and your eyes benefit a lot by it.
 
The ideal book length really is as long as it needs to be, though it's probably best not to stray wildly above or below the average page count for the genre.

The historical fiction novel I'm currently querying is 83,000 words, which is perhaps a little short but I'm happy with the world-building and tightness of the prose, so I'm not too worried. I'm rewriting another hisfic, which is 130,000 words at the moment. Hoping to get it down to 100-110,000.

The longest book I've read is probably Les Miserables, Isabel Hapgood translation, which was pretty blooming long.

I've just started listening to audiobooks after discovering that my local library supplies them via the RB Digital app. A lot of libraries around the world use it. It's great for trying out genres and authors I wouldn't normally read and for making myself 'read' more non-fiction instead of slinking off with a juicy novel. I also listen to novels I've previously read and loved but wouldn't otherwise get around to re-reading.
 
My current novel is 175,000 words long - on the long side, but that's how many words it took to tell the story.
I don't know about the longest book I ever read, but I do enjoy a long read. I recently finished Anathem at 960 pages. The Goldfinch is a favourite (881 pages). How long is War and Peace...? :)
I do like a good audiobook, but rarely listen to them. An audiobook has to have a really good reader to hold my attention (too many are not that great).
 
This very morning I tossed almost 15k words onto the floor, bringing my WIP down to 144k words. I’ve been trying to find those words for a long while now, so it’s a good day! This brings it in line with one of the genres it fits into, but this weekend I’m going hunting for another 20k words. They’re in there. I know it.
 
This very morning I tossed almost 15k words onto the floor, bringing my WIP down to 144k words...
To get to a borderline acceptible 175,000 words, I took out an entire chapter. It was 13,500 words and was all backstory, it really didn't advance the plot at all, but it still broke my heart when I ditched it (I loved that chapter). :D
 
To get to a borderline acceptible 175,000 words, I took out an entire chapter. It was 13,500 words and was all backstory, it really didn't advance the plot at all, but it still broke my heart when I ditched it (I loved that chapter). :D

I so understand! It was painful to see those words go. I’ve edited them probably 20+ times. For me, it was the big idea and my second draft. That’s what made me find them. Once I framed the updated work against the big idea, the words that could go stood in stark relief.

Save the chapter. Your fans will one day demand the unabridged version!
 
I write the stories I like to read - which generally come in under 80k. I like to be able to read it in a day, glow in the after-effects for a while, then dive into a new world.
I just wish I could write one in a day ...
Such is the life of a storyteller!
 
My favourite book is the uncut edition of Stephen King's The Stand and that comes in at 1,150 pages, but its epic scale demands a large tome. I'd imagine that if released today it would be a trilogy.

I think a good book is as long as it needs to be. No more, no less.
 
I think a good book is as long as it needs to be. No more, no less.
My wife argues something similar: that an author ought to write the book they want to write. Of course readers expect specific book lengths, editors and publishers reject non-compliant manuscripts out of hand, ebook purchasers expect shorter works, and the low cost of self-published ebooks means that writing a large number of brief books in a series is far more profitable than publishing a single epic. But apart from those factors, we ought to write our books to exactly the number of words they need.
<cynicism off>
 
If I had all the time in the world, an interesting exercise would be to edit one of the wordish classics and see if all the good parts could be retained. I imagine so. You could even keep some exposition to give the 'reading longish classic fiction' experience.

I also believe Patrick Rothfuss could break his books into serials, if he liked, if he couldn't afford to be too precious about it. But of course he can.

I believe all long books or stories can be serialized. Ask Stephen King. He make bucket loads with Green Mile. Readers paid 6.95 a piece for a part of the longer novel. Serialized fiction has a long history in genre fiction. Many of the classic sci-fi, fantasy novels we know today are the result of serialized fiction which was eventually put into novel form.

And well ... I also happen to believe that if you're brilliant enough to spew over 100k worthy of a reader reading, then you darned well be brilliant enough to cut your story into pieces and create satisfactory transitions.

And... it's been my observation that long epic fantasy usually is broken into pieces anyway. Often it's broken into parts. If the parts aren't explicit, they're usually implicit. We wouldn't be able to handle it otherwise. Our attention span has never been 300k worth. It certainly isn't now. We also have an expectation of ebbs and flows .. a rhythm... which creates places where a narrative can be broken. There is never one ebb and flow over 300+k.

But that's just my belief. Writers seldom agree with me, believing their stories are too important to be changed to suit the weak whims of the reader. After all, writers know what's best for readers.

But again... look around you at the cell phone reading people.... 300+k all in one shot ... or even 100+k.... do you really think?
 
My favourite book is the uncut edition of Stephen King's The Stand and that comes in at 1,150 pages, but its epic scale demands a large tome. I'd imagine that if released today it would be a trilogy.

I think a good book is as long as it needs to be. No more, no less.

I really liked The Stand. It was one of the first books he wrote.
 
How long are the books you write?
The first MS I wrote came in at around 80,000, the second at 100,000 and now the third currently stands at 137,000... This does not bode well for whatever I write next...

What's the longest book you've read?
According to readinglength.com the longest I've read is Rothfuss's Wise Man's Fear at 341,600 words. Funny thing, it felt a lot shorter. I remember my dismay when I realised I only had about 50 pages left and wishing it would just go on. I've had the same experience with most of Robin Hobb's work (often between 180k-320k). But for various reasons, Robert Jordan's Eye of the World (208k) felt very long.

View attachment 3266

If you favour audiobooks, do you listen to long books that way?
I love being read to and I do most of my "reading" through audiobooks. I find them especially good for getting into slow burn books that I might otherwise put down if I were reading them in hardcopy. That said, there are a few authors that I did struggle to listen to—not because the story was dry or slow, but because they packed so much meaning into their sentences. William Gibson was one. Tune out for a heartbeat and you get lost quickly. I had to really pay attention when I listened to his Blue Ant series.

Length doesn't bother me too much choosing audiobooks. However, if it's going to be 30 hours long, I may go read the reviews first to decide if it is worth the investment of time.

That's a great website. I always wonder how long books are.

I like Patrick Rothfuss... even with his long books. I like long books in general. But I don't think I'm normal. Ha!
 
editors and publishers reject non-compliant manuscripts out of hand, ebook purchasers expect shorter works, and the low cost of self-published ebooks means that writing a large number of brief books in a series is far more profitable than publishing a single epic.

Is it the case that ebooks are expected to be shorter? I would have thought it didn't matter so much. One of the joys of e-readers is not having to cart giant books around in your bag/pocket and being able to read them without cramping your hands or dropping War and Peace on your nose while dozing off.

When I had my surgery with @AgentPete, I mentioned having trimmed my book from about 100k to 83k, and he said the word count didn't matter much. Perhaps I misunderstood.

Your comment about the low cost of self-published ebooks leading to books being split is ominous. I hope it doesn't spread into publishing in general. I'd been waiting for ages for the kindle version of The Quincunx rather than having to tackle a monster-sized print book. It's now been released, but split it into 5 parts. I hope such books don't attract bad reviews if readers are expecting satisfactory conclusions to each part.
 
Science Fiction and Fantasy tend to be larger reads, possible because of the requirement to describe the alien or different world. Epic size writers that spring to my mind are Peter F Hamilton (The Neutronium Alchemist, etc.) and George R R Martin (Game of Thrones, each book is quite a tomb). Jean M Auel's Earth's Children series (Clan of the Cave bear, etc.) were quite hefty but she did, in my opinion, tend to witter on about the flora and fauna a bit too much. She often repeated fairly large descriptive blocks across several of the books, which was a bit annoying.

My output has done everything from 40,000 words to about 120,000 but I would, if I could (see below), aim for about 80,000 to 90,000 for a first novel of general fiction.

Bear in mind that some of the most well known classics are quite slim. The Great Gatsby, for example, is only 172 pages. The Cather in the Rye barely reaches 200. Though my copy of Jane Eyre runs to 520 pages, and The Lord of the Rings trilogy are all quite thick (although Tolkien did originally write it as six books and then grouped them in pairs for publishing) so each to his own I guess.

As others have said above, don't confine your story because of word count, make it as long as it needs to be to tell the story the way you want to. Even worse is to try to pad out a shorter work trying to reach the 'magic' number of words or pages. It doesn't work and the reader and agent will spot it a mile off.
 
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