Beta Readers Question

[Nicole Wilson]

If you use beta readers, how do you find them? And how do you make sure they do what they promised to?

For my first novel, I had eight beta readers. One was my hubby, two were my parents, three were friends, and two were people my husband works with who asked to read it. I gave them my manuscript back in December with a cover letter that laid out what I was looking for: honest feedback (even if it sucked as long as they told me where it sucked) and a couple questions for after they read it. And I asked for it back in the March-April area.

Of those eight, two (that's right, TWO) have gotten them back to me. Seven months later. My husband, who's a writer and understands the importance of beta readers, and a friend were the two. The other six have either said they're still working on it or they've stopped responding to my texts completely. At this point, they're reading such an outdated version of my book that it doesn't matter terribly much if they get it back to me.

But, now gun-shy from my first experience, I'm coming up on the time when I'll need beta readers for my second book. Yet I don't know how to find them. Are friends a bad idea? Do I have to pay for beta readers? Any advice?

 

[Karen Gray]

Up until now I have only had Gordon (hubby) and his mum who came back to me with feedback. Now there are some amazing fellow litopians reading my stuff. @Jennifer Stone, @Jason Byrne, @MontanaMan65 I have kind of forced it on poor @David Steele, though I don't expect him to kill himself in order to read it lol... though I will look into doing audiobooks as a result

We all read for each other actually. It's a brilliant experience

I'd be happy to read for you if you like Come join the BigMadMentalReadingCircle lol

 

[Nicole Wilson]

Oh! I didn't know if there were rules in Litopia about asking for that. Well my next book is about a month/month and a half off, but thanks for the offer. I'll let you know when I'm closer.

I heard that Goodreads had a beta reader section, so I checked that out, but it looks like several of them charge for their services, which I'd rather not do for strangers because I don't know if they'll be giving quality feedback or not. All of my writing goes through my writers group already, but it's only 10 pages a week, so it's hard to get a good grasp of the story, pacing, keeping track of characters when it takes six or seven months at 10 pages a week to get through.

 

[Alistair Roberts]

I think it's hard to get Beta Readers, let alone one's who will actually do what you need. Fewer, but more helpful ones are probably the answer. I'm not too experienced in this area and still hoping to increase the number I have, from 3.

 

[Amber Zade]

Nicole,

Book clubs, bookstore employees (especially indie bookstores) are good places to find beta readers. The person I have asked to read mine is someone who writes, although she isn't writing anything now, but she also reads just about everything. I might be able to think of some people who can read your ms.

Amber

 

[Karen Gray]

I don't think book clubs are a great idea and I'll tell you why... They (in my area at least but I get the feeling that this is the case in many places) they are very... I'm going to use the words stuck up and hope you know what I mean.

Over analytic and looking for meanings which aren't there. That's not quite what I mean but it's 4.30 in the morning and I got to sleep at 2 so hopefully you will forgive my lack of proper brain power.

 

[Amber Zade]

I have gone to a few book clubs where the people were a little snooty. One was a book club where most of the attendees were teachers. The second one was hosted in a very upscale area and they were all new Moms trying so hard to be deep. They were adorable. The host came up with discussion questions. I liked the teachers too. I like all kinds of books and I like symbolism and all of that stuff. I also like genre fiction. The book clubs I am thinking of are hosted a small independent book store. These ladies are not looking for meaning. They're looking for fun and entertainment. The mystery group is a little more serious. They like a little more meat on their bones. The romance group is looking for a happy ending just like you'd expect a romance book club to look for. Another group reads paranormal - really mostly paranormal romance - and they are also looking to be entertained. So - it just depends. I've known the ladies in these book clubs for FOREVER. I've also known some of the book store employees for FOREVER. So, I have a good idea who would be a good beta reader - and a willing beta reader. At this little bookstore I'm thinking of, there are employees who read Young Adult, employees who read a lot of mysteries so ..... I guess what I am saying to you is... it just depends. I met the lady I am going to ask to read my manuscript through bookclub. She also used to be an employee there. She is totally AWESOME and I totally TRUST her.

 

[Karen Gray]

Yeah, The book clubs here are... lets just say money breeds money and opinionism (that's not even a word lol! It is now damn it!)

 

[Karen Gray]

Yeah, The book clubs here are... lets just say money breeds money and opinionism (that's not even a word lol! It is now damn it!)

On the flip side... I'm from the 'poor' East End of town and we don't have 'clubs' as such - they are reserved for the West End with their mansions and quarter villas.

 

[Jason Byrne]

On the flip side... I'm from the 'poor' East End of town and we don't have 'clubs' as such - they are reserved for the West End with their mansions and quarter villas.

A Londoner!

If you use beta readers, how do you find them? And how do you make sure they do what they promised to?

For my first novel, I had eight beta readers. One was my hubby, two were my parents, three were friends, and two were people my husband works with who asked to read it. I gave them my manuscript back in December with a cover letter that laid out what I was looking for: honest feedback (even if it sucked as long as they told me where it sucked) and a couple questions for after they read it. And I asked for it back in the March-April area.

Of those eight, two (that's right, TWO) have gotten them back to me. Seven months later. My husband, who's a writer and understands the importance of beta readers, and a friend were the two. The other six have either said they're still working on it or they've stopped responding to my texts completely. At this point, they're reading such an outdated version of my book that it doesn't matter terribly much if they get it back to me.

But, now gun-shy from my first experience, I'm coming up on the time when I'll need beta readers for my second book. Yet I don't know how to find them. Are friends a bad idea? Do I have to pay for beta readers? Any advice?

I had exactly one beta reader, and he was my father. My wife read a couple pages here and there and said, "yep, it's great, but way beyond me. Can't help ya."

My book is ridiculously large, but I've passed out the first chapter to @Marc Joan, and @Karen Gray has chapters one and two.

I've read for Marc, David, and Karen; I'm in the middle of about 99k for Karen, but if you need a beta reader and would like to send me your work, I will start in on it as soon as I finish with hers!

 

[Marc Joan]

Can't wait to see Karen Gray's response to being accused of being a Londoner....!

Note for our cousins across the pond: Glasgow also has an East End.

 

[Jason Byrne]

Can't wait to see Karen Gray's response to being accused of being a Londoner....!

Note for our cousins across the pond: Glasgow also has an East End.

Oh S***

 

[Marc Joan]

Oh S***

You'll probably survive. You've got the whole Atlantic between you.

 

[Jennifer Stone]

Hi Nicole, I hadn't even heard of beta readers until I joined the colony, I sent my ms to two of my good friends, one of whom hasn't mentioned it since, the other got back to me but couldn't offer any editorial help. So I got to know some good folk here and they kindly offered to read for me, their advice has been invaluable. I had no clue about editing or anything past writing the book. I'm still not any sort of expert but I have more of an idea what I need to do. If you want something read, I'd be happy to help. Send me a private message if you want. I don't charge for my time, I see it as a free book to read and I'm helping a fellow author. Double Bonus!

 

[Alistair Roberts]

Oh S***

Yer in deep laddie, deep I tell ya!

 

[Richard Sutton]

I've been away for a bit, but this is a very timely post. I've been doing a lot of review reading, and along with that comes beta manuscripts. The last one I received, though, isn't really a Beta manuscript. It's an unedited draft, and the author seems to be under the impression that Beta Readers are inexpensive line editors. A manuscript is not Beta Ready until it is ready to pitch. Edited. Rewritten several times, usually. Beta Readers are called in for overall impressions and targeting help, not fixing something that hasn't been already honed and polished.

I useually have six Betas or so, two of them are random readers in-genre. I usually get three or four reports back. It's not quantity, though, it's quality and overlap that's critical. More than one comment on a specific and I know I've got a live issue!

 

[Jason Byrne]

I've been away for a bit, but this is a very timely post. I've been doing a lot of review reading, and along with that comes beta manuscripts. The last one I received, though, isn't really a Beta manuscript. It's an unedited draft, and the author seems to be under the impression that Beta Readers are inexpensive line editors. A manuscript is not Beta Ready until it is ready to pitch. Edited. Rewritten several times, usually. Beta Readers are called in for overall impressions and targeting help, not fixing something that hasn't been already honed and polished.

I useually have six Betas or so, two of them are random readers in-genre. I usually get three or four reports back. It's not quantity, though, it's quality and overlap that's critical. More than one comment on a specific and I know I've got a live issue!

Excellently-put, Richard.

Perhaps someday you would consider having a look at my MS, when you're in the mood for more? Or the first chapter, perhaps — it's a big'un, at about 267k.

 

[Alistair Roberts]

Indeed very good and important points Richard raises. I've read, and from practical experience agree that a manuscript usually (and should) be edited/rewritten eight times by the Author, before it's likely to be as good as they can get it. Then you would ask your beta readers to read it, with a view to the story-line and flow, NOT about typos etc., which should have been dealt with.

 

[Nicole Wilson]

I've been away for a bit, but this is a very timely post. I've been doing a lot of review reading, and along with that comes beta manuscripts. The last one I received, though, isn't really a Beta manuscript. It's an unedited draft, and the author seems to be under the impression that Beta Readers are inexpensive line editors. A manuscript is not Beta Ready until it is ready to pitch. Edited. Rewritten several times, usually. Beta Readers are called in for overall impressions and targeting help, not fixing something that hasn't been already honed and polished.

I useually have six Betas or so, two of them are random readers in-genre. I usually get three or four reports back. It's not quantity, though, it's quality and overlap that's critical. More than one comment on a specific and I know I've got a live issue!

I couldn't agree more, Richard. I go through my novels twice on my own, once with my husband for obvious plot holes, and one more myself before I send to beta readers. Mostly because I'm a little vain and don't want crappy work out there with my name on it, but your reason is good too.

 

[Karen Gray]

A Londoner!

 

[Jason Byrne]

I couldn't agree more, Richard. I go through my novels twice on my own, once with my husband for obvious plot holes, and one more myself before I send to beta readers. Mostly because I'm a little vain and don't want crappy work out there with my name on it, but your reason is good too.

The rationale is that proofreading is certainly helpful, but kind of pointless because the sections you might add as a result of their critique will almost certainly have typos and grammatical errors — better for the editor to proof the final version, and your readers to tell you their impressions of the content.

 

[Jason Byrne]

Karen! You're here...!

How ya been, buddy?

 

[Karen Gray]

You know how many times I have to delete my response for fear that I will be punted out for naughty words? LOTS

Lol You know how some Americans feel about being called Canadian?
...

Yeah that x 1000000000

 

[Alistair Roberts]

Or Canadians feel about being called American; or Kiwis being called Aussies.... oh the shame of it!

 

[Karen Gray]

It's ok, I still love ya really... Just... London...? no... just no.

My blinkin' series is about Scottish independence... numpty heid! pmsl!

 

[Jason Byrne]

You know how many times I have to delete my response for fear that I will be punted out for naughty words? LOTS

Lol You know how some Americans feel about being called Canadian?
...

Yeah that x 1000000000

It's ok, I still love ya really... Just... London...? no... just no.

My blinkin' series is about Scottish independence... numpty heid! pmsl!

Yeah, I knew the size of that no-no the second I made it, but I figured I'd better take the coming mindstrike rather than do a quick edit and replace the original faux pas with this:

 

[Nicole Wilson]

Yeah, I knew the size of that no-no the second I made it, but I figured I'd better take the coming mindstrike rather than do a quick edit and replace the original faux pas with this:
View attachment 104

Definitely one of the best things I've seen on the internet!!

 

[Karen Gray]

Yeah, I knew the size of that no-no the second I made it, but I figured I'd better take the coming mindstrike rather than do a quick edit and replace the original faux pas with this:
View attachment 104

DUDE That's my unicorn!

Hahahaha I almost pulled out the Yoda meme... But I thought I might get in trouble, so I didn't haha

 

[Jason Byrne]

Definitely one of the best things I've seen on the internet!!

Whoa, Nicole! Whoa! Pump the brakes, children can see this thread!

 

[Richard Sutton]

I couldn't agree more, Richard. I go through my novels twice on my own, once with my husband for obvious plot holes, and one more myself before I send to beta readers. Mostly because I'm a little vain and don't want crappy work out there with my name on it, but your reason is good too.

I tend to see Beta Reading as akin to the Beta Testers used in a consumer product launch. The last step before the kick-off. Beta reading for me is about a pleasure read that I get to make some comments and provide notes for. Too many stumbling blocks and read slow-downs, hoever, and it becomes too much work.