Minutia quibblery

How many modern grammatical rule changes have you adopted?


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What Operating System do you use when writing?

J

Who was I supposed to send a chapter?

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Jason Byrne

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The serial comma (a.k.a. Oxford/Harvard comma) vs. the Associated Press style.

Computer era single-spaced periods vs. monospaced typewriter double-spaced periods.

The Elements of Typograhic Style left-justified first paragraph vs. the Associated Press indention of all paragraphs.

The use of the drop cap.

One might argue that the news-based guidelines of the Associated Press style are more to conserve ink than to promote clarity. I found the following: "with gratitude to my parents, Mother Theresa and the Pope" to illustrate why the serial comma is important. I still use the serial comma, "with gratitude to my parents, Mother Theresa, and the Pope." The modern style considers this unnecessary, because people "should" be capable of figuring out what you really mean, and that Mother Theresa and the Pope are not your parents.

In other respects rules have changed out of opportunity, which did not exist before. Two spaces following a period was used in a desperate effort to break the visual monotony of the monospaced typewriter, which is no longer needed with the dynamic spacing of the computer. I for some reason am incapable of joining the modern age of the single-spaced period which I hate and fear — the only real argument in favor of retaining the Old Way.

Others are less clear still. Technically, the purpose of an indent is to set apart text to distinguish it from the previous paragraph. As there is nothing before the first paragraph and nothing from which to distinguish it, the first-paragraph indent is superfluous. In argument of consistency, it is alleged that if you indent every other paragraph, you might as well indent the first one, as well.

With all that we hold grammatically dear at stake, I wondered how many of you — like myself — fear change and simply refuse to stop using antiquated grammatical rules, how many update their form by personal preference on a case-by-case basis, and how many throw caution to the wind and adopt all modern conventions.

And... fight!
 
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Well… they are in place for a reason. They make reading easier. You don't want your readers to work to get through a passage. They might not keep going. :) Since I need to sell what I write, I do follow the rules. Commas are edited in or out of my manuscripts according to house style, but I'm used to both styles now so I write them where they need to be 99% of the time. I do tend to toss in sentence fragments for emphasis, but as with anything, less is more, and my editors are good about letting me know when I've put in too many. The choice to keep them is mine, but they're almost always right about which ones should go. :)
 
I try hard to keep up. Having had very little English tuition in school (long story) I try to muddle through via osmosis. I still put two spaces after a period by muscle memory. I try to write as I speak, and fortunately that's acceptable in most cases. I still get anxious when people talk about compound adjectives and reflexive pronouns.
 
If a writer wants to sell something, then they have to "follow the rules" set by the publisher. Personally, I like the double-space after the previous sentence and the indent of all paragraphs.

I prefer this style, "with gratitude to my parents, Mother Theresa, and the Pope." when I read or write. because I was raised "old school", I put in a little pause after hitting a comma and so the above quote makes more sense to me then dropping the comma before the "and". For me, I try to remember the following:
Rule #1: The boss is always right.
Rule #2: If the boss is wrong, refer to rule #1.
The boss being anyone who is paying you.
 
I try hard to keep up. Having had very little English tuition in school (long story) I try to muddle through via osmosis. I still put two spaces after a period by muscle memory. I try to write as I speak, and fortunately that's acceptable in most cases. I still get anxious when people talk about compound adjectives and reflexive pronouns.
Yeah, I paid enough attention in English, but ignored the terminology. Direct object... appositive phrase...

Here's where I'm going to make people mad:
I know it was a random decision in the 19th century to try to force English into a structure similar to Latin, but I also refuse to place a preposition at the end of a sentence. You will notice I can't even let the word "preposition" touch the period. A preposition is something with which I cannot even finish a clause, and I claw and claw until I find a sentence that doesn't sound unbearably stiff...

Wish I could change. Can't. Two spaces.

EDIT: It makes me furious that this forum edits out the second space.
 
If a writer wants to sell something, then they have to "follow the rules" set by the publisher. Personally, I like the double-space after the previous sentence and the indent of all paragraphs.

I prefer this style, "with gratitude to my parents, Mother Theresa, and the Pope." when I read or write. because I was raised "old school", I put in a little pause after hitting a comma and so the above quote makes more sense to me then dropping the comma before the "and". For me, I try to remember the following:
Rule #1: The boss is always right.
Rule #2: If the boss is wrong, refer to rule #1.
The boss being anyone who is paying you.
Also a good point.
 
Perhaps where my writing goes astray... I don't remember being taught many rules, except 'I before E, except after C.' Any idea where I can learn these guidelines?
 
Beige, cleidoic, codeine, deify, deity, deign, dreidel, eider, eight, either, feign, feint, feisty, foreign, forfeit, freight, gleization, gneiss, greige, greisen, heifer, height, heinous, heir, heist, leitmotiv, neigh, neighbor, neither, peignoir, prescient, rein, science, seiche, seidel, seine, seismic, seize, sheik, society, sovereign, surfeit, teiid, veil, vein, weight, weir, weird.

Take that 'I before E except after C!'

Caffeine, casein, disseize, geisha, inveigle, keister, leisure, monteith, obeisance, phenolphthalein, phthalein, protein, seizin, sheila, specie, species!
 
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Perhaps where my writing goes astray... I don't remember being taught many rules, except 'I before E, except after C.' Any idea where I can learn these guidelines?
There has to be a good English grammar reference book that isn't mind-numbingly boring. Anyone have any advice?
 
Perhaps where my writing goes astray... I don't remember being taught many rules, except 'I before E, except after C.' Any idea where I can learn these guidelines?

Which ones? There are all kinds out there for what publishers want for formatting.
I'm sure you can get a proper treatise on the use of a comma by doing a Google search.
The point I was trying to make is, it doesn't matter what WE think is correct or easy to read; not if we're trying to sell something. It's what They want.
 
There has to be a good English grammar reference book that isn't mind-numbingly boring. Anyone have any advice?
Really? You think there could be a book on English grammar that isn't boring? I know I slept during English when I was in school. One of my "pet peeves " about what I was taught in English class was dealt with in "Back to School" (the part about Kurt Vonnegut).
 
Beige, cleidoic, codeine, deify, deity, deign, dreidel, eider, eight, either, feign, feint, feisty, foreign, forfeit, freight, gleization, gneiss, greige, greisen, heifer, height, heinous, heir, heist, leitmotiv, neigh, neighbor, neither, peignoir, prescient, rein, science, seiche, seidel, seine, seismic, seize, sheik, society, sovereign, surfeit, teiid, veil, vein, weight, weir, weird.

Take that 'I before E except after C!'

Caffeine, casein, disseize, geisha, inveigle, keister, leisure, monteith, obeisance, phenolphthalein, phthalein, protein, seizin, sheila, specie, species!
The way I larned it was "I before E except after C and as an A as in neighbor and weigh." Note: I still run through this in my head when spelling. But then English was a foreign language to me for many years... I have put it on applications that wanted me to list the foreign languages I speak, read, and write.
 
I try hard to keep up. Having had very little English tuition in school (long story) I try to muddle through via osmosis. I still put two spaces after a period by muscle memory. I try to write as I speak, and fortunately that's acceptable in most cases. I still get anxious when people talk about compound adjectives and reflexive pronouns.
What the hell are those?
 
Having a father who owned a computer company (built them) I was the first kid with a PC in my class. I'll never forget a conversation I had about my IBM machine vs my friends Nintendo. "No one's every heard of IBM," she teased, "everyone knows of Nintendo though."

I was upset and went home thinking I had a lame computer. I asked my dad about it he just said what IBM stood for ....International Business Machines. He chuckled as he said the international bit. lol. Things that memory wooshes back eh?
 
See, and my descent into darkness began with Wolfenstein... I was a bad egg.

Well, no... I was running around with squirt guns at about age five, pretending I was an evil android named Tom Stark, fighting off army "good guys."

You're right, Emurelda. It does come rushing back....
 
See, and my descent into darkness began with Wolfenstein... I was a bad egg.

Well, no... I was running around with squirt guns at about age five, pretending I was an evil android named Tom Stark, fighting off army "good guys."

You're right, Emurelda. It does come rushing back....

Doesn't it just..I am trying to resist the memory floodgates from any further wooshing. I think they are more meaningful to an off topic thread.
 
Perhaps where my writing goes astray... I don't remember being taught many rules, except 'I before E, except after C.' Any idea where I can learn these guidelines?

Coming back to topic. A very easy way to see what publishers prefer is by analysing their published books. Usually they are standard - aren't they? - just compare your punctuation to their's and maybe that gives a little away. It's very crude and hardly scientific I grant you but my mind is a bit mush right now with all the memory wooshes that I hope this is an adequate method for a quick check.
 
Coming back to topic. A very easy way to see what publishers prefer is by anaysing their published books. Usually they are standard - aren't they? - just compare your punctuation to their's and maybe that gives a little away. It's very crude and hardly scientific I grant you but my mind is a bit mush right now with all the memory wooshes that I hope this an adequate method for a quick check.
That makes sense. It might even subtly help the reception of your work.
 
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What Operating System do you use when writing?

J

Who was I supposed to send a chapter?

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