Don't give up the day job

[Vagabond Heart]

Excellent post pointing out why it's so hard to make a living writing books.

https://awfullybigblogadventure.blo...ICR-6LFUgeRNBQAX5kTn6BMoLIxgM67XK8-_wJM-d3QYe

 

[E G Logan]

I don't know that too many of us here on Litopia are aiming at making a living from our books – but I could be quite wrong about that. It might be interesting to do a survey?

Me, I just want to see the one I've finished in print, somewhere, somehow. And not self-published because I have no marketing skills or, more importantly perhaps, contacts, whatever.

 

[Peyton Stafford]

I don't know that too many of us here on Litopia are aiming at making a living from our books – but I could be quite wrong about that. It might be interesting to do a survey?

Me, I just want to see the one I've finished in print, somewhere, somehow. And not self-published because I have no marketing skills or, more importantly perhaps, contacts, whatever.

Good question. I am absolutely counting on it.

 

[Vagabond Heart]

Me, I just want to see the one I've finished in print, somewhere, somehow.

Ditto. That would be cool, right?

 

[Barbara]

I'd love to earn an income from my novels. And the kudos of being read and have readers love it. Oooh, that would be so nice. I do write for the love of it but still. I'd like to get paid for that thing I love doing.

I'm not holding my hopes up though. Call me a pessimist, or a realist, or something but I just got dressed I my 'non-writers' works clothes.

 

[Jonny]

Yes, excellent piece. Sobering truth and a reality check.

I think a lot of people see authors such as JK Rowling, Richard Osman and others pushing wheelbarrows full of dosh to the bank every week and think: "Yep, that's for me. I'll do that, too. Sell a book and you're on the pig's back."

I'm in the same boat as B. I love writing and I'd like to make a modest few quid out of it but it ain't easy. And sustaining it is even more difficult. I say that as a one-hit wonder where I once got a deal with a major publisher. The key word in that sentence is 'once'.

I always reference this piece on Adrian McKinty who sold a lot of books of his first award-winning crime series. He made so much from them that he was able to lose his home and then find employment as an Uber driver in order to make a living.

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/jul/08/adrian-mckinty-interview-crime-novelist-the-chain

His is a Cinderella story, though, as he finally did hit the jackpot when The Chain went mega global. His is also very much the exception.

 

[Sedayne]

I'm not surprised by Anne Rooney's maths in the article, and I think it’s true of a lot of creative fields – music, art, etc. It’s almost impossible to make a living.

A long time ago, we had some moderate success on the British folk music scene. Our album broke even (very much a win in the independent music biz), and we played a lot of festivals and gigs over a couple of years. The pay for these performances seemed generous for doing what we enjoyed for rarely more than an hour at a time, but when you factor in the rehearsal time, the travelling, the time spent hanging around waiting, the time spent enthusiastically making small talk with strangers late at night when you feel shattered and all you want to do is go to sleep, the hourly rate was less than a pittance. We met plenty of people who were trying to make a living out of it, but we knew it wasn’t worth it when I could go back to a well-paid job that I liked even if I didn’t love it. We were messed around by the record company, and the follow-up was recorded, but never saw the light of day. Disappointing at the time, now a happy-ish memory.

Even for those writers who are fortunate enough to get published, what would be the hourly rate when you calculate the time it took to write the book, let alone the querying and networking and publicising? Is it worth it? Probably, but only if money isn’t a consideration.

I do have dreams, but I’m under no illusions.

All the same, it would be nice to be able reduce the hours of my paid job to increase the hours of the thing I love to do.

 

[JohnBertel]

I am a hobbyist. For the economic part, at least. Passion wise, it does rank above collecting movies memorably and gardening. Most of the time.

I would probably have another, and more productive, attitude if I didn't have a job I love. My irresponsible advice to writers wanting to make a living writing would be to sustain yourself with a day job that bores you, and that you forget all about when you go out the door.

 

[Barbara]

I wonder, though, would I still be as passionate about writing if I were to do it full time for a living? Is the variety of activities in a day actually part of the fuel? Or would writing become a job-to-be-done? Would after a year or so the joy wear off and the routine kick in?

I'm at my most productive when I know I have only 2 hours to write before my current paid work.

 

[Mel L]

Call me a pessimist, or a realist, or something but I just got dressed I my 'non-writers' works clothes.

Just Swiss?

 

[E G Logan]

Just seen an interesting piece in The Bookseller today, relevant to our discussion. A recently published writer, with a two-book deal, speaks of how, nevertheless, he (I think he) still feels a failure.

I suspect many of us here would give our back teeth – and possibly a couple of the front ones, too – to be in his position. Personally, I'd like to take him by the shoulders and shake.

https://www.thebookseller.com/comme...tm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Morning Briefing

 

[Sedayne]

Just seen an interesting piece in The Bookseller today, relevant to our discussion. A recently published writer, with a two-book deal, speaks of how, nevertheless, he (I think he) still feels a failure.

I suspect many of us here would give our back teeth – and possibly a couple of the front ones, too – to be in his position. Personally, I'd like to take him by the shoulders and shake.

https://www.thebookseller.com/comme...tm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Morning Briefing

Talk about glass half-empty!
Different expectations I suppose.
I consider it a success if Litopians don't hate what I post.

 

[Hannah Faoileán]

£25 000 not enough to live on? Is she talking annually or forever? If forever, I agree. If annually, that's oodles of dosh. I could live quite happily on that amount of money.

As for whether I want to make a living from being a writer? Yes. I'm not stupid - I won't rely on it - but I think it's good to dream.

 

[Peyton Stafford]

Big sigh. The biggest fault of our primate minds.

 

[PCFrontier]

Hi all,
Best to get a proper job and write part time if you want to pay the bills. Or write when you are retired.

Unless .......... your book is picked up for a TV series, film, or computer game. The money should roll in then. I wonder if literary agents consider that angle when they are reading your synopsis?

 

[E G Logan]

I wonder if literary agents consider that angle when they are reading your synopsis?

If so, I imagine it must make a huge difference to someone's attractiveness as a client.
I would hope to have – when I finally do nail one, speed the day – an agent who would take all the possibilities into account.

 

[MattScho]

I don't know that too many of us here on Litopia are aiming at making a living from our books – but I could be quite wrong about that. It might be interesting to do a survey?

Me, I just want to see the one I've finished in print, somewhere, somehow. And not self-published because I have no marketing skills or, more importantly perhaps, contacts, whatever.

You have Litopia contacts. Just saying.

 

[MattScho]

Excellent post pointing out why it's so hard to make a living writing books.

https://awfullybigblogadventure.blo...ICR-6LFUgeRNBQAX5kTn6BMoLIxgM67XK8-_wJM-d3QYe

Back in the day, I had a choice to make, either go into journalism and make a crap salary, or go all in on writing fiction, and dream of making a crap salary. A fiction prof pulled me aside and told me he thought I would make it, but when I asked what making it meant, he said, Well, I think you could beat the average, but right now that's $5,000 a year. Even in 1983, this was way less than a living wage. I chose journalism, and loved most of my 35 years in the profession.

But, people make money doing this. Looking at the US Labor stats:
Median wage for 151,200 folks who list writer as their career on tax forms.
$73,150 per year
$35.17 per hour.

However, this class includes:
The following are examples of types of writers and authors:

"Biographers

Bloggers

Content writers

Copywriters

Novelists

Playwrights

Screenwriters

Speechwriters

Novel writers are a small piece of this.

 

[Peyton Stafford]

You do not have to give up your day job in order to write full time. Here's my daily schedule:

0500 Awake and meditate.
0600 Write
1000 Business (I am a partner in a real estate development company, and I market books to schools and libraries, and my business interests go on and on, but I limit them to two hours on weekdays.)
1200 Exercise. I walk half a mile to a gym, knock myself out in the weight room, stumble home...)
1400 Litopia
1500 Editorial volunteering. I revised a manual for librarians about using assistive technology. That was the last two years. And I have an ongoing commitment to a disabilities website.
1600 More writing back in my safe refuge of creativity.
1800 Cook something in a skillet. Eat and read...
2000 Meditate and sleep.

Young kids? Marriage? My kids are grown. You need your own schedule. But put it onto your calendar and charge ahead. You can do this. If you cannot, send me a DM, and I will hold your hand.

 

[MattScho]

Just seen an interesting piece in The Bookseller today, relevant to our discussion. A recently published writer, with a two-book deal, speaks of how, nevertheless, he (I think he) still feels a failure.

I suspect many of us here would give our back teeth – and possibly a couple of the front ones, too – to be in his position. Personally, I'd like to take him by the shoulders and shake.

https://www.thebookseller.com/comme...tm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Morning Briefing

30 some years ago I bought a very nice dinner (well, my then newspaper bought) for a new fantasy author, Terry Brooks. He'd become a bestseller with The Sword of Shanara, but told me about how wasn't able to convince himself he could quit his day job until his fourth best-seller was done. Before that, he kept the day job.
GRRM spent 10 years doing the day job and writing, before he found a day job as a college writer in residence, and then as a TV story consultant (so not living off his book revenue). He didn't make a living off his many, many, many novels and stories until much later.
Tolkien never quit his day job.
The list goes on.
Quitting the day job is a luxury, or a lifestyle choice (the choice being, if you decide you don't need much money).
The USBoLS numbers I mentioned above are broken down by a lot of folks indicating there are about 1,000 full time novel writers in the US. I'm not linking their work because I don't really trust it, but it's probably good for a ballpark. The top third mean for novel writer earnings is $75,000 a year (okay, a few make a lot, but most do not). the bottom third mean is estimated at $35,000 a year (i'm guessing this is much more of a clump). But that's 1,000 in a nation of 335 million. Assuming the UK has similar sorts of percentages, the UK has 20 percent of the US population, so 200 full time writers.

 

[Hannah Faoileán]

30 some years ago I bought a very nice dinner (well, my then newspaper bought) for a new fantasy author, Terry Brooks. He'd become a bestseller with The Sword of Shanara, but told me about how wasn't able to convince himself he could quit his day job until his fourth best-seller was done. Before that, he kept the day job.
GRRM spent 10 years doing the day job and writing, before he found a day job as a college writer in residence, and then as a TV story consultant (so not living off his book revenue). He didn't make a living off his many, many, many novels and stories until much later.
Tolkien never quit his day job.
The list goes on.
Quitting the day job is a luxury, or a lifestyle choice (the choice being, if you decide you don't need much money).
The USBoLS numbers I mentioned above are broken down by a lot of folks indicating there are about 1,000 full time novel writers in the US. I'm not linking their work because I don't really trust it, but it's probably good for a ballpark. The top third mean for novel writer earnings is $75,000 a year (okay, a few make a lot, but most do not). the bottom third mean is estimated at $35,000 a year (i'm guessing this is much more of a clump). But that's 1,000 in a nation of 335 million. Assuming the UK has similar sorts of percentages, the UK has 20 percent of the US population, so 200 full time writers.

And some people call themselves full-time writers but have a husband/wife/partner who is bringing in the dosh that keeps them alive/comfortable/ in the luxury they're used to.

 

[E G Logan]

so 200 full time writers.

Ouch.

 

[LJ Beck]

Just to throw a different ball in the air... (I believe the statistics and I appreciate the info. This is just another way to look at statistics...)

When I was a kid in school, I was forced into sciences instead what I wanted to do -- art. Then I went to uni instead of art school, because others convinced me I'd be a starving artists. They said I should do that new computer sciencey thing so I could get a good job. I did computer science. Five yeas later, I said f-it and followed my heart, took a gamble, and went to art school. Two of the best years of my life. I got a job doing art for TV as soon as I graduated. I made a pittance to start but I didn't care, I loved it. I worked my ass off. Like really put in the hard yards to get good. Within two years, I was making a nice living, and I didn't know it at the time, but I was in for a sweet 30-year run in a brand new, flourishing industry. If I'd continued to listen to all the statistics, and my art teachers, and bloody well everyone about starving artists, I'd have never taken the gamble, and never had the life I am blessed to have had.

When asked my advice from kids getting into visual effects, it's always to be dedicated to their craft. Be really good. Work hard, keep learning, go farther, be daring, be bold with what they produce. Think less about the money, and more about building a skill set and what they have to offer.

I approach my writing the same way. I work hard, I keep learning, I try to be bold and daring. I am building my skill set so I can offer more. I don't think about the money. I think about how much I love writing. Yes, it's a gamble if it'll be successful. I put my all into screenwriting, and it never paid off. I didn't gamble my day job. I gambled my time and effort. I gambled on a dream until that wasn't the dream. Then I shifted the dream.

I know that the more time I spend writing, the better I'll get, and the better I get, the better my chances of success. It's a balancing act that shapes what your life looks like. Regardless of success, I'd rather gamble on a dream doing something I love, than not. The joy is in the doing.