Craft Chat Yellowface is just...sad.

[Mel L]

I don't know what makes me feel worse: that such a poorly written novel became a global bestseller, or that the publishing industry (and our online world in general) is such an easy target for satire. Depressing to say the least. Now I see it's been optioned for TV: Lionsgate TV Options ‘Yellowface’ by R.F. Kuang, Karyn Kusama Attached to Direct (EXCLUSIVE)

Sure, Yellowface is a page-turner: Kuang knows how to construct a narrative arc. But it is bogged down with too much heavy-handed interiority, info dumps about the industry and cultural appropriation, plot twists that beg plausibility.

On the bright side, I did learn a lot about the industry. I had never heard of IP writing for one thing. And I guess it's somewhat encouraging that a novel, however flawed, can become a bestseller if it hits the zeitgeist.

 

[Pamela Jo]

I saw this touted in the bookstores and had a look at it. The cover is very effective. But then quickly put it down. Nothing there compelled me so then it comes down to one of those books you are SUPPOSED to read that the publishers like to produce now and again to prove that they know literature when they see it. The problem is they DONT. Readers choose what transcends and gives catharsis. The books that will last. Publishers dont have a clue. The last Booker/ Nobel prizes being stellar examples. Readers LIKE punctuation. And story.

 

[James Charles]

Yes and yes. I remember when Gone Girl came out. EVERYONE said OMG! You gotta read this. I did and hated both MC's and thought I hope they both die. Talk about NOT caring about the MC's...

 

[Hannah F]

Did this come out about the time when that guy was in court for stealing concepts including from Margaret Atwood? If so, timing is everything.

 

[Bloo]

Sometimes, a writer can miss the zeitgeist and still make it.

I just finished the audiobook Bury Your Gays by the legendary Chuck Tingle. Never read him before, so I figured his latest and greatest would be a good place to start. Unfortunately, it feels like we're both five years late to the party.

The zeitgeist on which the plot so heavily tries to summon has already passed. That's fine if you're reminding us of the bad old days - but passing it off as current is forcing it.

BTW...Yellowface doesn't look like a book I want to read - or listen to.

 

[Mel L]

I saw this touted in the bookstores and had a look at it. The cover is very effective. But then quickly put it down. Nothing there compelled me so then it comes down to one of those books you are SUPPOSED to read that the publishers like to produce now and again to prove that they know literature when they see it. The problem is they DONT. Readers choose what transcends and gives catharsis. The books that will last. Publishers dont have a clue. The last Booker/ Nobel prizes being stellar examples. Readers LIKE punctuation. And story.

I am reading more broadly these days to learn about writing and publishing, so I succumbed to the hype. Should've listened to my inner reader!

 

[Mel L]

Did this come out about the time when that guy was in court for stealing concepts including from Margaret Atwood? If so, timing is everything.

I didn't hear about the Margaret Atwood case -- what happened? Yellowface was published in 2023.

 

[Mel L]

Yes and yes. I remember when Gone Girl came out. EVERYONE said OMG! You gotta read this. I did and hated both MC's and thought I hope they both die. Talk about NOT caring about the MC's...

Agree, it was way over-hyped!

 

[Hannah F]

I didn't hear about the Margaret Atwood case -- what happened? Yellowface was published in 2023.

Literary mystery may finally be solved as man arrested for allegedly stealing unpublished books

Filippo Bernardini is accused of impersonating publishing figures to steal manuscripts, in scam that has stumped authors and editors for years

www.theguardian.com

I think it's close enough in time to have fed the zeitgeist.

 

[AgentPete]

Thanks, @Mel L for this - never read it, never really wanted to (some books you read with a heavy heart because you know you've got to) but I really appreciate your take.

 

[Mel L]

Thanks, @Mel L for this - never read it, never really wanted to (some books you read with a heavy heart because you know you've got to) but I really appreciate your take.

Thanks, @AgentPete ! If I've spared you the slog through the book, I am grateful.

 

[E G Logan]

A friend mentioned to me recently that she had a copy, asking if I wanted it. (A give, not a lend.) I was surprised she'd read it as she is is normally someone who goes for little known early-modern classics and generally more literary novels. I surmised a visiting relative left it with her. 'I didn't think you'd want it,' she said. 'It's really thin and weak.'

 

[AgentPete]

I never say no to a book Although “keepers”... well, they’re another matter.

I'm having exactly that internal discussion at this very moment, as boxes gradually get unpacked, often stuff we haven’t seen for two decades (had a ton of stuff in long-term storage, as most Londoners eventually end up doing).

It’s really quite interesting. Books that seemed vital at the time often date very quickly (I wonder if that’s the fate of Yellowface?) and conversely, some that are fairly trivial but evoke an era (personal or zeitgeist) are definite keepers.

And then there’s stuff you just have to keep as a hedge against civilisation collapse(!). EG we have the very last printed edition of the Encyclopædia Britannica (2010). The online version is awful, the print version has grandeur. When those alien archaeologists start sifting through the cinders of Earth, I want them to see we got some things right

 

[Mel L]

A friend mentioned to me recently that she had a copy, asking if I wanted it. (A give, not a lend.) I was surprised she'd read it as she is is normally someone who goes for little known early-modern classics and generally more literary novels. I surmised a visiting relative left it with her. 'I didn't think you'd want it,' she said. 'It's really thin and weak.'

I would love to hear from anyone with a different take but it is gratifying to know I'm not alone!

 

[LA Thomas]

I was disappointed in it too, given all the hype.

But dry interesting that we have a similar drama going on right now with the whole colby Wilkins thing…!

 

[Pamela Jo]

I got confused by identity politics which is a different thing. But yeah cultural appropriation is a battlefield right now. And because there is at the moment a tiny opportunity opening up in the creative arts for Natives I suppose there is a temptation to grab a little of that. But when you are trying to hold on to the very little that is left of you- and someone "jests at scars that never felt a wound" it's going to piss you off. I would say there is nothing more important to the younger alphabet generations than identity. Which leads to identity politics.

 

[Mel L]

I was disappointed in it too, given all the hype.

But dry interesting that we have a similar drama going on right now with the whole colby Wilkins thing…!

Sorry, I got confused between identity and appropriation (and ended up replying multiple times, which I then deleted).
Thank you @LA Thomas for sharing the Colby Wilkins story which I had not heard about. Yikes!
I do agree with @Pamela Jo 's point about why identity matters, especially in this case but also in general to younger generations. It seems as writers in the current climate we must be increasingly sensitive to the 'zeitgeist' and be care not to stumble onto territory that could be contentious.

 

[Bloo]

It seems as writers in the current climate we must be increasingly sensitive to the 'zeitgeist' and be care not to stumble onto territory that could be contentious.

And this scares the hell out of me. I'm about to dive into LiMo with a story that's been marinating in my noggin for years. When I asked a good friend of mine to hear me out and look at my scribblings, she said it reminded her or the mid-90s film Independence Day. It was not a compliment. As a German, she pointed out how Amero-centric the plotting and characters were. And of course, every character was straight, and women played only supporting roles. She told me I could do better than that.

So I made changes to plot and characters that better represent the world we live in. Yet that may not be enough anymore.

 

[Pamela Jo]

Sorry, I got confused between identity and appropriation (and ended up replying multiple times, which I then deleted).
Thank you @LA Thomas for sharing the Colby Wilkins story which I had not heard about. Yikes!
I do agree with @Pamela Jo 's point about why identity matters, especially in this case but also in general to younger generations. It seems as writers in the current climate we must be increasingly sensitive to the 'zeitgeist' and be care not to stumble onto territory that could be contentious.

Only if we want to be published. But I dont think that's a bad thing because it comes down to readers, all readers. Books that assumed a certain kind of reader used to be the only ones considered. It boils down to the reason publishers are sensitive. I just listened to Diamonds are Forever. I did not know Bond was THAT racist. Bond says he's grateful he was raised English or he would have had to sit next to ugly negro children in school as if they were normal. And worse including the N word. It certainly puts in context those reports that Prince Phillip and the Queen used to do imitations of Commonwealth leaders. I think we all agree that, that sort of zeitgeist is better off dead. And isn't it better to think of a global readership considering we would all like to write books that we can sell to as many countries around the world as possible. I would say that is ultimately the publisher's bottom line. It means we have to dig deeper to find truth and I think that is important to writers like you Mel. So I'm thinking of this zeitgeist as that. A time when the truth is so obscured by smoke and mirrors that only writers can find the reality behind the illusion.

 

[Mel L]

Only if we want to be published. But I dont think that's a bad thing because it comes down to readers, all readers. Books that assumed a certain kind of reader used to be the only ones considered. It boils down to the reason publishers are sensitive. I just listened to Diamonds are Forever. I did not know Bond was THAT racist. Bond says he's grateful he was raised English or he would have had to sit next to ugly negro children in school as if they were normal. And worse including the N word. It certainly puts in context those reports that Prince Phillip and the Queen used to do imitations of Commonwealth leaders. I think we all agree that, that sort of zeitgeist is better off dead. And isn't it better to think of a global readership considering we would all like to write books that we can sell to as many countries around the world as possible. I would say that is ultimately the publisher's bottom line. It means we have to dig deeper to find truth and I think that is important to writers like you Mel. So I'm thinking of this zeitgeist as that. A time when the truth is so obscured by smoke and mirrors that only writers can find the reality behind the illusion.

I like your interpretation, PJ -- it allows me to think of the zeitgeist as something more meaningful.
However, I am struggling with all the things we have to keep in mind as writers these days, all while remaining true to who we are and why we write. Of course we want our work to be read, by as many people in as many places as possible. But the whole thing begins to feel overwhelming, especially with all the smoke and mirrors.

 

[Mel L]

And this scares the hell out of me. I'm about to dive into LiMo with a story that's been marinating in my noggin for years. When I asked a good friend of mine to hear me out and look at my scribblings, she said it reminded her or the mid-90s film Independence Day. It was not a compliment. As a German, she pointed out how Amero-centric the plotting and characters were. And of course, every character was straight, and women played only supporting roles. She told me I could do better than that.

So I made changes to plot and characters that better represent the world we live in. Yet that may not be enough anymore.

I can relate to this. I was recently told by a younger writer that my reference to Twitter was dated as it's now 'X'. I wanted to laugh, or possibly cry. The world is moving at a pace that makes our work feel dated as soon as it's written.

 

[Pamela Jo]

I like your interpretation, PJ -- it allows me to think of the zeitgeist as something more meaningful.
However, I am struggling with all the things we have to keep in mind as writers these days, all while remaining true to who we are and why we write. Of course we want our work to be read, by as many people in as many places as possible. But the whole thing begins to feel overwhelming, especially with all the smoke and mirrors.

I suppose this is why I am now addicted to FB reels. It's true there is nothing more entertaining than we the people. And our dogs, cats and cockatoos. I think this is my subconscious connecting with who I'm writing for. The thing that comes thru so clearly to me while I'm sitting there scrolling is that real people are NOT stereotypes.

And tho I get the German woman's point in Bloos post-we cannot write other people's truths. The book I've been working towards for 7 years includes a central native American character. I am NOT going to get into her head. I dont have that right and am not capable of writing that truth. But the whole Indian wars experience with Custer was traumatic for white people as well. There was controversy and it was watched closely from the east coast through the main magazine of the time, Harpers. That's my perspective. As with "To Kill a Mocking Bird" to see injustice and portray it may be all you can do.

 

[Ed Simnett]

I can relate to this. I was recently told by a younger writer that my reference to Twitter was dated as it's now 'X'. I wanted to laugh, or possibly cry. The world is moving at a pace that makes our work feel dated as soon as it's written.

still plenty of references to the term twitter on Twitter/X fwiw

I'm increasingly adopting the approach that if the work is not "historical" then I steer away from anything too specific. e.g. in my latest I have companies like

Search
Social
RideShare
Picture
PairUp

and I am trying to keep away from too much tech geekery driving plot, even though it's in the world of tech... Read a friend's book from 10 years ago and there was *so* much agonizingly-dated mobile and era-specific Facebook stuff. Rachel Kushner's latest may perhaps have the same problem, lots of Google references of one sort or another.

Back on the main topic, sounds like a "read the Amazon sample to get the writing style, and the wikipedia synopsis for characters and plot" [at most].

 

[Mel L]

I suppose this is why I am now addicted to FB reels. It's true there is nothing more entertaining than we the people. And our dogs, cats and cockatoos. I think this is my subconscious connecting with who I'm writing for. The thing that comes thru so clearly to me while I'm sitting there scrolling is that real people are NOT stereotypes.

And tho I get the German woman's point in Bloos post-we cannot write other people's truths. The book I've been working towards for 7 years includes a central native American character. I am NOT going to get into her head. I dont have that right and am not capable of writing that truth. But the whole Indian wars experience with Custer was traumatic for white people as well. There was controversy and it was watched closely from the east coast through the main magazine of the time, Harpers. That's my perspective. As with "To Kill a Mocking Bird" to see injustice and portray it may be all you can do.

And now you've given me the perfect excuse to watch reels on social! Seriously, instead of a time suck I'm going to look at them as 'research' into the human condition (which seriously, they can be). As for your project, glad to see you are pursuing it. Sounds like a valid perspective that deserves to be told.

 

[Mel L]

still plenty of references to the term twitter on Twitter/X fwiw

I'm increasingly adopting the approach that if the work is not "historical" then I steer away from anything too specific. e.g. in my latest I have companies like

Search
Social
RideShare
Picture
PairUp

and I am trying to keep away from too much tech geekery driving plot, even though it's in the world of tech... Read a friend's book from 10 years ago and there was *so* much agonizingly-dated mobile and era-specific Facebook stuff. Rachel Kushner's latest may perhaps have the same problem, lots of Google references of one sort or another.

Back on the main topic, sounds like a "read the Amazon sample to get the writing style, and the wikipedia synopsis for characters and plot" [at most].

Like a lot of people (especially of my demographic), I refuse to call it 'X'. Just like I still say I graduated from Ryerson, and not the renamed Toronto Metropolitan University following the controversy over the founder's connection to residential schools (Residential Schools in Canada)
Good point about the generic names for tech-related topics. I had avoided this as somehow less authentic, thinking the narrative would be more immersive with real names. But, as you point out, nothing pulls you out of a story than a dated reference. Thanks for the name suggestions!

 

[E G Logan]

The friend who was given Yellowface has passed it on to me. Definitely doesn't want it. Not sure I do either, despite the cover line: The Number One Global Sensation.
Touch of over-selling here, surely? Some of the other cover comments also have the feel of having been abruptly hacked out of longer – and possibly very different – sentences.