What makes a good "hook"?

[Lex Black]

Hey, everyone!

Today's Pop-Up just finished a little while ago, and while the...panel? Judges? Executioners? ...didn't love my submission, they also didn't give it the vicious excoriation I was more or less expecting.

One of the issues Pete seemed to have was that, while indicating the thing wasn't without merit, he didn't feel the hook was strong enough. Now, bearing in mind that tastes are subjective and so forth, I thought the early establishment of "There are two guys, and they fight monsters, and also one is some sort of temperamental weirdo with bizarre magic powers, and they are waiting for someone they 'might have to kill' (per the opening line)" would be a pretty good hook.

So, using this as an example, how might I make it more compelling? What makes a good hook, and how can I apply general principles of that to what I have now?

 

[Nikky Lee]

For me, it's usually a combination of things: a strong voice, an interesting (I hesitate to say arresting?) scenario, and a character that intrigues me in some way.

As for how to do this, that's really difficult to say (for me at least). I think delivery and timing play a vital part, but it is so subjective. For example, your two moon line is what hooked me. I instantly went "ah-ha, we're not on Earth, so where are we?" and I was keen to learn more. However, not everyone felt the same way.

 

[Lex Black]

Thank you for sharing! Yeah, I'm not sold on the moon thing myself. It's in that "you can't please everyone" category. Originally, the reveal of the moons was at the very end of the second chapter, to which numerous beta readers said "NO!! You must establish setting RIGHT AWAY!!" So I did that as soon as I could make it feasible (and at least tried to make it a character-related moment) and now I get "NO!! You must let us STEW IN THE SETTING FOR A WHILE!"

I exaggerate for humor's sake, calm down. But anyway, I can change it or leave it, this isn't an aspect I'm sold on or anything, I just need to know how to keep a reader long enough to get to the misshapen monster obsessed with antique photos and the cult of undead invading the country and the supernatural arms dealer that is somehow in the middle of all the really awful stuff going on. You know, the interesting stuff.

 

[Nikky Lee]

I think you were right to include the moons it early in the opening, chapter two is probably a bit too late to go "oh, by the way, we're not on Earth." (again, my opinion only).

Without having read any more of the story, have you thought about starting it later so we launch straight into the interesting stuff?

 

[Lex Black]

I've considered (and had it suggested) multiple times, but...I dunno. We get to the good stuff pretty quickly, but there's a lot to introduce. As we saw today, there's already a lot with "It's hardboiled, except it's totally a new unfamiliar setting, and there's monsters, and also a little old black man who is also totally the main character and an ass-kicking whatthehell, betcha didn't see that coming!"* It strikes me as tough to set all that up while also dropping in medias res into a gunfight with monsters.

*As an aside, I'm also a bit frustrated that George didn't make more of an impression. Yeah, we didn't get to see much of him in this sample, but I'm working with him as a character for a reason. Raise your hand if you're sick and tired of white cis-male hetero protagonists aged 18-35. Will fits that perfectly, but he turns out to only be one of a whole team of monster hunters following George. If you saw someone who looked like George on TV, he'd be playing the role of "next door ethnic neighbor girl's kindly grandfather." Here, he's the absolute badass the monsters are afraid of. Maybe that's not the draw I've hoped it will be?

 

[Nikky Lee]

Raise your hand if you're sick and tired of white cis-male hetero protagonists aged 18-35.

Yes, agree! I'm definitely getting tired of it. That said, if the story is good, I'll forgive a lot.

he's the absolute badass the monsters are afraid of

I didn't pick up on this—but from that description, my interest is piqued. (Potential tagline?)

 

[Amber]

As an aside, I'm also a bit frustrated that George didn't make more of an impression. Yeah, we didn't get to see much of him in this sample, but I'm working with him as a character for a reason. Raise your hand if you're sick and tired of white cis-male hetero protagonists aged 18-35. Will fits that perfectly, but he turns out to only be one of a whole team of monster hunters following George. If you saw someone who looked like George on TV, he'd be playing the role of "next door ethnic neighbor girl's kindly grandfather." Here, he's the absolute badass the monsters are afraid of. Maybe that's not the draw I've hoped it will be?

Sometimes I miss things. So, don't shoot me if you've already done this.

I think what you describe above is a hook. George a non-stereotypical hero. This must bring up some unexpected issues. I wouldn't be shy or hesitant about saying exactly what you said above. I imagine the best place for it would be the beginning. I don't have it in front of me to look at but maybe a good opening scene would be George vanquishing a monster. Maybe we get to hear the internal dialogue of someone as they recognize that George isn't what they expected. But since George isn't what they expect, what is it about George that makes him worth following? How does he inspire confidence if he's the unexpected because as much as we hate it, part of the reason we follow people in real life is because they present as someone we would expect to be a leader and part of that actually is white hetero male. So, while you don't think you have a job convincing anyone, because one shouldn't be needed, there actually is one. The reason it interests me is because then George would be a sort of over-underdog or a under-overdog.

My original thought when I read the beginning of the post is that we needed a reason to care. The situation, world, and characters are interesting. I think the writing is good, but we need something pulling on the heart strings. Although, obviously not in a sappy way. But still, a reason to care.

 

[Lex Black]

I didn't pick up on this—but from that description, my interest is piqued. (Potential tagline?)

Maybe? George has a few sayings he likes to reiterate. One of them (that the section today missed by a few pages): "Bad things happen. I make them stop."

My original thought when I read the beginning of the post is that we needed a reason to care. The situation, world, and characters are interesting. I think the writing is good, but we need something pulling on the heart strings. Although, obviously not in a sappy way. But still, a reason to care.

Hence, my problem. I really thought I had an initial setup ("Wait, they might HAVE to kill someone?") quickly followed by other questions I was hoping the reader would want answers to ("Where are they, exactly? What are they up against? What is George's deal?" et al). Clearly, that isn't as interesting as I thought it was, and neither is Will's internal conflict (another one: Why does he work with George if George is so volatile? What exactly can George do that's so impressive?).

I'm really at a loss here as to what to add to make a better hook. So, to try to get back from derailing this so badly: What makes a good hook? What makes you confident when you have one? And for my own issue, what (else) might you add to what I already have to make for more reader interest?

 

[Nikky Lee]

I just saw that Carol has written an excellent post on hooks in the Writing Wiki.

As a reader, I'm fond of a very strong first line, but successfully writing one is a challenge. Perhaps look at your opening?

 

[Barbara]

I only heard parts of your sub, unfortunatly. But here are my two p's worth.

I think what you describe above is a hook. George a non-stereotypical hero.

I think Amber is on to something.

Where are they, exactly? What are they up against?

To me (and that might just be me) 'the where they are and what they're up against' isn't all that interesting at all. It's just context/setting. It can be said in a short para; or better revealed slowly in bits as we follow the heroes. It's the human aspect of a story, and how they act/react in that world, that hooks me. Make the protagonist personal on the first page and give him a 'thing' that is at stake for him. Monsters are not threatening if we don't know who they're after. 'They're after humanity' is too vague. Give a specific, personal thing readers can relate to. Like Amber sais, give us a reason to care.

Then show us his story. Reveal him via his actions in that world. That way you also reveal the world.

Are you maybe overloading it? I would concentrate on the hero, and give him something very personal to strive for. After all, we'll be following him through the story. Give him a strong, specific story question, something that is very important to him; a quest.

You say he's non-stereotypical. Again, what specific thing makes him non-typical? Does he have a weakness of sorts that hinders him? Maybe etsablish him on the first page via the main thing that makes him different, and show it to us via something he does. The fact he is a non-typical hero will give you some jolly good conflicts and hurdles he will have to overcome, as well as a character progression.

A soldier and his fancy weapon saving humanity from mosters ... meh. Seen that in movies.

A guy with a phobia for weapons having to save his autistic son after the monsters kidnap kiddo because he has a gift of sorts, and in the process the hero happens to save humanity ... I'd read that.

Or swap the autistic kid for a daughter who has the 'capacity to love everyone unconditionally' (or she possesses true God energy, or something like that), and the monsters want to harvest it to become non-monsters. Of course the non-stereotypical hero saves the day.

Etc etc

 

[Lex Black]

Barbara, those are some very good thoughts and they really have me...uh, thinking.

What about this? In that section Will interrupts George saying, "There's so much..." It's not until later it's revealed this is another thing George repeats to himself at low times, almost like a mantra, "There's so much blood on my hands." What if I didn't leave that a mystery? If I give that full quote and a bit, one way or another, about what George is struggling with, would that perhaps be more interesting?

 

[Amber]

Maybe? George has a few sayings he likes to reiterate. One of them (that the section today missed by a few pages): "Bad things happen. I make them stop."



Hence, my problem. I really thought I had an initial setup ("Wait, they might HAVE to kill someone?") quickly followed by other questions I was hoping the reader would want answers to ("Where are they, exactly? What are they up against? What is George's deal?" et al). Clearly, that isn't as interesting as I thought it was, and neither is Will's internal conflict (another one: Why does he work with George if George is so volatile? What exactly can George do that's so impressive?).

I'm really at a loss here as to what to add to make a better hook. So, to try to get back from derailing this so badly: What makes a good hook? What makes you confident when you have one? And for my own issue, what (else) might you add to what I already have to make for more reader interest?

I probably know more about what its not than what it is.

For me, curiosity and good writing is a hook. But I'm not normal and I've been told it's not enough for most readers. A hook is something that makes people care. It's something emotional rather than cerebral.

My understanding is it's those emotional cookies @AgentPete is always talking about. If I remember correctly, he said its good to have one on each page in the first few pages of your manuscript.

 

[Katie-Ellen]

The panel had quite a few positive things to say. It really wasn't a case of anyone acting as an 'executioner,' or saying "NO!! You must let us STEW IN THE SETTING FOR A WHILE!" This must be a reference to a comment I made, I think, though I don't recognise the translation. And of course you are entirely correct, Lex. It is all largely subjective though absolute readiness for submission to a publisher or agent is perhaps instantly apparent to a reader whether or not a particular book is one's own personal cup of tea.

You are the boss. You can use or discard that feedback however you see fit. I've experienced this process myself to know how it feels back in the day when @AgentPete did these all on his own. He and the guest Litopians on the Pop-Up panel - which varies week on week- are on the writer's side. Peter is your guinea-pig literary agent and the panellists are your guinea-pig readers, and OK, the squeaking might be annoying but there it is. They care about writing and are there in the hope of serving as a useful, impartial collective sounding board.

For me the hook - I personally felt this wanted intensifying- was these two characters waiting to kill someone they didn't want to kill but might have to. The circumstances would make this a killing in cold blood when unless it's an animal hunting for its din-dins, an innocent killer, usually it takes a monster, human or otherwise to kill in cold blood, And the other hook was looking forward to finding out more about George. I don't care about stereotypical or non stereotypical attributes. All characters can be reduced to lists. The alchemy is everything and I was already interested in him without that question being raised.

 

[Lex Black]

You can use or discard that feedback however you see fit.

Oh, naturally, and I appreciate every bit of it! I must be coming off wrong here, so let me emphasize this: I am entirely grateful for every single bit of input offered, AND I was very pleasantly surprised by how it went! I was in knots, fully expecting to have something I've been working on for ten frickin' years utterly excoriated. Seriously. The only reason I could see that it has failed so completely after years and years and years and YEARS of rewrites and beta readers and resubmitting and rejection and the same damn process over and over again until...well, the next part is really dark, but yeah, this has been hard.

Pete made the comment about me feeling "cheated" because it was sort of a runner-up for submission of the event. On the contrary. I fully expected something like him stopping the reading halfway through the 700 words to have the panel go, "Wow, um...we can TRY to say something constructive here, but..."

The fact that instead I got what averages out to "Huh, this could use a bit of tweaking, but it's not bad..." is...well, it kinda made my day.

Ok, that said, I'm doing a lot of pondering of how to work this, based on a lot of good feedback from a lot of very kind people. I openly consider myself a talentless hack, but perhaps with enough good coaching I can choke out something that will actually see publishing before I die of old age.

Anyway. Hook. Blood on the hands. If I added a bit more to that, might it work? Building off of that opening sentence, and having George lament about what an ugly situation it is to find themselves in, Will commiserating? I'll let that stew for a bit and see what I can come up with. It's in character anyway and would fit with the story as it sits. A reveal we get to shortly in the course of the story is that of the two proposed "targets", one is an actual, literal monster, and the other is the "arrogant psychic" from the blurb (which Pete seemed to actually like, be still my heart!). That's what that opening line actually refers to: George fights "monsters", be that "horrifying abominations that defy the natural order" or "humans that do really terrible things". He's lamenting the thought that the woman with brain-melting powers they've discovered might be related to the rash of disappearances somehow, and really doesn't want to have to dispense vigilante justice...but he'll absolutely do it if that means saving lives.

Does that...does that sound interesting? Like it might work? I'm really floundering here (see: talentless hack).

Boy...I really did not mean this thread to be so self-serving and become derailed so consistently. Um...would anyone want to join a reading thread for Unspoken if I started it? That way we could let this thread get back to being something actually useful to people who aren't me?

 

[Katie-Ellen]

'Unspoken'. I love that title. The more human everyone is...even if they're not human, the stronger the hook. Roy Batty isn't human, in Bladerunner except actually, he is very human, and he kills plenty people but he isn't the real villain and it's pure tragedy.

And that's a great idea,@Lex Black. Set up a thread for 'Unspoken' in the Writing Groups Directory, Writer seeks Readers.

 

[Lex Black]

Alrighty. One question: should I make the entire MS available, or just like, the first X chapters? I know Pete worries about protecting our IP, but on the other hand, limited access...what's best?

 

[Amber]

Alrighty. One question: should I make the entire MS available, or just like, the first X chapters? I know Pete worries about protecting our IP, but on the other hand, limited access...what's best?

I suggest putting up the first chapters.