The First Draft Of Anything is Shit...

[Katie-Ellen]

Says Peter on the new look homepage, quoting a certain E Hemingway.

Yes, and the first, and quite likely the second and third, speaking for myself. I had quite a breather after the first draft of the completed novel. I had heartening feedback, including from a writer I admire, Sophie Hannah, and I had negative feedback; and family members were the harshest. I have rellies who read a lot and they don't pull their punches. Someone might even have said the words, Enid Blyton at one point, in speaking of errors of tone, when I was writing for adults and/or, what is this new bracketing now, new adults.

I resisted the passing impulse to self harm, and sat digesting all this awhile, working out how to move the first draft forward, and I wrote seven drafts before I felt confident enough, by which I also mean, proud enough, to send my paper boat off down the river.

No-one was waiting for it. I could afford to take my time; I had other work to attend to, but what if I'd been locked into a contractual obligation to deliver by a certain date? Might this not come with success?

I suspect though, as well as hope, now that I'm on with another first draft, that while a first draft will still be crappy when it's your second first draft, it won't be quite as steamingly crappy as your first first draft. You have served an apprenticeship of discipline, no? in completing a first full length manuscript. You have learned more about the control of language than you quite appreciated as a reader.

Organic gestation of a book is a luxury. Maybe we'll never know till we're tested, just how fast we could go and how good a first draft could be, should it become business, and someone is waiting on that product and will freeze in a gutter because they can't pay their bills if we fail. Or we won't be able to pay ours. I exaggerate of course, but that's what we do, innit. Books are cartoons of reality.

We know the odds are stacked against the reading world taking our book to its heart. Still, the pantheons purr like...well, not like panthers, obviously. But we have decided we want to do this.

I deduce the folk here, and this includes @AgentPete are all pig-stubborn.

 

[Alistair Roberts]

Pig-stubborn?? Now that really rocks the boat, even when it's not going uphill! Stubborn is a word I avoid, object to and flatly refuse to accept or write. No, not ever. I utterly refute that suggestion and dig my heels in. I will not be moved. *shock-horror* expression...

 

[Emurelda]

I see no exaggeration personally.

 

[Katie-Ellen]

Pig-stubbornness is the very best kind, I think; a virtue allowing for the possibilities of flying.

 

[Katie-Ellen]

I see no exaggeration personally.

I HOPE it's an exaggeration, for sure. We don't want anyone to end like Chatterton,

 

[AgentPete]

So many writers have told me that it’s not the writing, but the re-writing that makes all the difference. That is also what makes it a uniquely painstaking process.

 

[Paul Whybrow]

Stubborn is what people say about you when you're doing something that they consider to be foolish. Determined is how they describe you if they approve of your efforts. I'm not sure where tenacious fits in, but it helps to be so with anything to do with writing.
Katie-Ellen's photo of a man pushing shit uphill, made me think of the Myth Of Sisyphus, which is a good way of describing how the editing process feels :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sisyphus

 

[Paul Whybrow]

Stephen Stills : Myth of Sisyphus -

Are you troubled?
Feelin' bad
And no one seems to care
Got the myth of Sisyphus

Hanging on you like a rolling stone.

Hanging on you like a rolling stone.

Yeah, like a rolling stone.

 

[Katie-Ellen]

Tenacious and persistent. Stubborn is a rude word for determination, or for when someone is being entrenched. Now, that's not pig-stubborn, but mulish.

That book's got to be polished till it rings with conviction and acquires lustre. What is the least/most number of drafts you have known an experienced published author to have done on a novel, I wonder, @AgentPete?

 

[Alistair Roberts]

Oh, good question. I've done 7 - 10

 

[AgentPete]

What is the least/most number of drafts you have known an experienced published author to have done on a novel, I wonder, @AgentPete?

I don’t think it’s possible to say, because it’s not a homogenous process. Certain parts of a manuscript often require far more work and revision than others. And writers often have highly idiosyncratic ways of working.

Mal Peet, for example, would work in a most extraordinary way, writing totally disparate parts of a manuscript almost simultaneously. The opposite of a linear process. And then, finally, it would all come together... with the joins receiving extra burnishing. Quite a different mind.

 

[Katie-Ellen]

I'm picturing continents moving, and earthquakes along tectonic plates. A divergently convergent thinking. Very efficient, too; that; what a very clever man.

 

[Paul Whybrow]

I've read in a few places, the recommendation to write the first chapter last - when the rest of the novel is finished. I can see how this would be an appropriate tactic to provide a punchy opening, which would better satisfy the requirement that the beginning of a story should hook a reader. Also, however well planned ahead of writing, the plot can evolve and alter direction - many writers end up with a book that tackles themes they weren't anticipating. Looking back at it, through the wrong end of the telescope, as it were, could be a good way of coming up with a pithy first chapter.
My favourite author, when it comes to the subject of drafts or the lack thereof, is Thomas Wolfe. He was a colossus of a writer in more ways than one, as he was 6' 6" tall, reputedly wrote standing up and had a deep runnel worn into his index finger from gripping the pencil that he wrote with for hours on end. He filled ledger books with his latest manuscript, adding scraps of paper and stringing the lot together to plonk on his editor's desk. The last story that he submitted, before his premature death at 37, was over a million words long!

 

[Nicole Wilson]

Says Peter on the new look homepage, quoting a certain E Hemingway.

Am I the only one who hasn't seen this new homepage? I usually sign in on my phone (which AgentPete has said isn't ready yet), but even on my computer, I haven't seen it yet.

I suspect though, as well as hope, now that I'm on with another first draft, that while a first draft will still be crappy when it's your second first draft, it won't be quite as steamingly crappy as your first first draft. You have served an apprenticeship of discipline, no? in completing a first full length manuscript. You have learned more about the control of language than you quite appreciated as a reader.

I agree with this - my first first draft was awful. Plot holes and character changes littered the thing throughout. But, after the experience of writing, rewriting, editing, and getting feedback from several people, I knew more of the things to look for in my second book. So, to me - and my hubby has said so, too - my second first draft was much stronger, more solid. Still needed work, but all first drafts do

That book's got to be polished till it rings with conviction and acquires lustre. What is the least/most number of drafts you have known an experienced published author to have done on a novel, I wonder, @AgentPete?

I'm pretty sure Lee Child (author of Jack Reacher series) only does a couple drafts. Which is incredible to me. He has these great books, and to think he only works them over a few times is mind-blowing!

 

[Emurelda]

Am I the only one who hasn't seen this new homepage? I usually sign in on my phone (which AgentPete has said isn't ready yet), but even on my computer, I haven't seen it yet.
!

Is it this https://litopia.com

 

[Nicole Wilson]

Is it this https://litopia.com

Ohhhhhh... I thought it was a new home page for the Colony, not Litopia in general. Thanks It does look very nice.

 

[Emurelda]

Or this..http://redhammer.info/submissions/

Hmm..am not sure too!

 

[Amber Zade]

So many writers have told me that it’s not the writing, but the re-writing that makes all the difference. That is also what makes it a uniquely painstaking process.

I finished my ms a few weeks ago. Then I tried to rewrite some of it and it was just okay. This week some really nice authors looked at it and gave me some great ideas. I'm excited about working on it again.

 

[Carol Rose]

*ducks in, reads the posts, slips quietly away*

 

[Katie-Ellen]

Or this..http://redhammer.info/submissions/

Hmm..am not sure too!

See https://litopia.com/ We see you there @CarolRose! Well? Spill!

Peter's got a new quote up there now. He's a busy boy.

 

[Carol Rose]

We see you there @CarolRose! Well? Spill!

Well, okay. But don't throw anything at me. Or call me names. Please.

I don't do drafts. I edit as I go, I read the whole thing through one more time when it's all done, and then I send that puppy on its way. Does that mean everything I write is shit??

 

[Katie-Ellen]

I think that just harks back to what @AgentPete said about drafts not being a homogenous process. I haven't revised from A- Z, myself. If I say there have been X number of drafts, it hasn't worked like that. It's been a case of realizing something would work better if it was changed, so it's going to be changed, but then continuity needs seeing to, and then there has to be polishing so it beds down together again. Still a lot of work, but, not a linear re-write.

You are selling your books. People want them! All kudos to our Carol Rose!

 

[Paul Whybrow]

I'm not sure what to call how I work. The idea of having strictly delineated drafts of my novel is impossible. This is because I edit as I go along, then re-edit the whole thing scores of times - which makes me doubt my powers of observation and question my sanity, when I find glaringly obvious errors that I missed before. My beta-reader found yet more tiny errors, as well as things that were ambiguous in meaning, which showed me the value of having a fresh set of eyes looking at a manuscript. Looking through the hard drive and memory sticks reveals about 100 different versions of my novel, that I backed up after an editing session.
This is one of the advantages of modern technology, though the transient nature of ebooks means that they'll never be a treasured earlier edition, as happened with hardback novels of a mere 20+ years ago.

 

[Carol Rose]

I think that just harks back to what @AgentPete said about drafts not being a homogenous process. I haven't revised from A- Z, myself. If I say there have been X number of drafts, it hasn't worked like that. It's been a case of realizing something would work better if it was changed, so it's going to be changed, but then continuity needs seeing to, and then there has to be polishing so it beds down together again. Still a lot of work, but, not a linear re-write.

You are selling your books. People want them! All kudos to our Carol Rose!

That makes sense. Thank you! I suppose because of the way I work, people could say I do drafts. I edit as I go, and I always go back and read at least the last few thousand words I wrote the day before, or sometimes further back, before I tackle that day's word count. It's the way I need to work through the story.

I'm not one of those writers who can simply write to get it all on paper. I can't think that way. It has to make sense to me as I move through the story, because I'm weaving secondary plots throughout the story itself, and through the entire series, that if I mess up the consistency, I might not have a chance a few books down the line to change it before that book releases. Readers pick up on stuff like that and will nail you for it. So I have to make sure it's right as I go along, and it's simply easier for me to write that way.

I don't really focus on THE END because I know the story will get there when it's done. I simply focus on what the characters are telling me that day, and I get as close to the word count goal for the day as possible.

 

[Amber Zade]

Well, okay. But don't throw anything at me. Or call me names. Please.

I don't do drafts. I edit as I go, I read the whole thing through one more time when it's all done, and then I send that puppy on its way. Does that mean everything I write is shit??

No, it means you edit as you go. I edit as I go when I have to write for school. I turned in so many first drafts I started to feel guilty. I'm not good enough to edit as I go with a novel. So, I think you do have drafts, just .... not in the way we would think of drafts.

 

[Nicole Wilson]

That makes sense. Thank you! I suppose because of the way I work, people could say I do drafts. I edit as I go, and I always go back and read at least the last few thousand words I wrote the day before, or sometimes further back, before I tackle that day's word count. It's the way I need to work through the story.

I'm not one of those writers who can simply write to get it all on paper. I can't think that way. It has to make sense to me as I move through the story, because I'm weaving secondary plots throughout the story itself, and through the entire series, that if I mess up the consistency, I might not have a chance a few books down the line to change it before that book releases. Readers pick up on stuff like that and will nail you for it. So I have to make sure it's right as I go along, and it's simply easier for me to write that way.

I think that's also the difference between pansters and plotters (I'm not promoting either way; one works for some people, the other works for others). I am able to fly through my first draft without editing because I've put a month or two's worth of work into my outline so I already know mostly where my story is going. Then I go back and do my rewrites.

 

[Carol Rose]

I think that's also the difference between pansters and plotters (I'm not promoting either way; one works for some people, the other works for others). I am able to fly through my first draft without editing because I've put a month or two's worth of work into my outline so I already know mostly where my story is going. Then I go back and do my rewrites.

Oh I know where the story is going. My characters often (usually… every day) throw me surprises along the way, but the basic outline of the story is already done when I sit down to start. What I need to do is go back to a previous book in the series, or back to my notes, and make sure what I've just changed at the character's request (demand) will still make sense in prior books in that series, or in future books. I don't outline per se, the way we did in school, but I have detailed notes with the world, the players, how they all fit together, etc. Plus I have my character sketches before I write. How can I write them if I don't know them?

I could write the whole book and not go back to edit, but I guess what I'm saying is that would make me crazy. I would feel as if I was doing extra, unnecessary work by not checking for those kinds of things I mentioned above as I went along. It would also make the editing/rewriting stage longer because if I'd gone back to check in the first place, I wouldn't have as many inconsistencies to fix.

 

[Jennifer Stone]

I wouldn't say the first draft of anything is s**t, but, like my primary school teachers wrote on my report cards, it 'could use improvement'. However, then couldn't we all use a little improvement? I was often told that if I applied myself, I'd be dangerous. I'm just too laid back and go with the flow for my own good.

 

[Karen Gray]

To be fair, and at the risk of being shot down in flames - because, let's be honest, that's what good old Karen's here for - I was also going to disagree with the statement. Some of my best stuff's off the cuff. For example, that Poem about Holly-mog (Bonnie Black Lassie) is a first draft. As is the prologue of For King and Country - Don't diss it till you've read it

 

[Katie-Ellen]

Let's fetch up Ernest Hemingway from the grave and tell him so...
Shall we drub him, or let him off for also saying this:

“All you have to do is write one true sentence. Write the truest sentence that you know.”