News Roald Dahl Rewrites

[Pamela Jo]

Mark Twain got it. Mark Twain story about the good little boy. If you really want to change things publish a kick-ass story about a bad little boy in a wheelchair. Poop! Poop!. Or a bad boy risking the law to help a slave. I'm afraid kids making fun of kids who look different is wired in. Kids are actually incredibly conservative. Teaching them compassion will go further than changing fat to enormous. Like kids can't extrapolate from enormous to fat?

 

[Bloo]

It's Ronny. R.O.N.N.Y. Not Ronnie.

I'm glad you cleared that up. I imagined "Roni".

 

[Hannah F]

Eee, Ah proper loved a Pontefract Cake when I were a lad. In fact the mention of them has given me a liquorice craving.

I've never heard of Pontefract cakes. It must be a South of England/Wales thing.

 

[Hannah F]

Well, if it's all about coverage (which it probably is), Puffin have won hands down.

 

[Barbara]

I've never heard of Pontefract cakes. It must be a South of England/Wales thing.

Me neither, and I'm in the south east (sort of). Must be a Pontefract thing.

As long as it contains sugar (lots) and comes out of an oven ...

 

[AgentPete]

They're not actually cakes

 

[Dorm Ant]

They're not actually cakes

Taveners Pontefract Cakes

Classic Taveners Pontefract Cakes; the liquorice sweet with an enviable history! Still popular today, liquorice sweets are seeing growing demand as sweet lovers retrun to these all time greats!~~~~~ Treacle, glucose syrup, maize starch, invert sugar syrup, wheat flour (with added, calcium...

www.thesweetstore.co.uk

Vegan. Knock yourself out.

 

[AgentPete]

They’ve added vitamins, calcium and iron!!! I bet they were never in the version I had as a kid.

Which in an oddly satisfying way brings the discussion right back to its origin… to what extent is it acceptable to change [Dahl] / [Pontefract Cakes] to accommodate modern tastes?

Like that.

 

[Jonny]

I wouldn't be surprised if they've bunged in a bit of MSG too, just for luck.

 

[Bloo]

I read these stories as a kid, and so did my classmates. None of us ever got an impression that they promoted anything. I would guess that 99-44/100% of people who make these sort of connections are adults. We sure as hell didn't see works of fiction as vehicles for bullying or male domination when we were kids.

 

[Dorm Ant]

You didn't see them that way, though it still had that effect. Subtlety is influential. Preaching isn't.

 

[E G Logan]

Compromise, or clever publisher, enjoying all the free advertising? My money is on the latter.

I did wonder myself if that had not always been the PlanB fallback solution. Monetising two income streams...

 

[E G Logan]

If I were a parent, I'd rather read my kids a version of a classic children's book

I can remember my mother used to change things in 'classic' books she read at bedtime that she knew would upset me, when I was 6 or 7. These would have been Grimm's Fairy Tales and Hans Christian Andersen.

Finding to her horror that The Little Match Girl – which she didn't know – didn't get better, but unremittingly worse, she declared we'd run out of time and we'd have the second half (actually the end bit) 'tomorrow'. First example of 'tomorrow never comes'.

 

[ChantalS]

Here's the thing - I had the Beatrix Potter books as a kid and I couldn't have been less interested. My kids had the Roald Dahl books (mine) when they were young and were REALLY uninterested. Children's literature is probably the fastest moving genre besides picture books. It's all well and good to be nostalgic, but look at it from the money side of things. Stay current or die out. And when my kids were first getting into reading there were only iPad games to contend with, there wasn't instagram or TikTok. Now there's that as well (don't think some parent's aren't low minded enough to stick there kids in front of that because I KNOW those parents, sadly).

I'm pretty well read, but I don't know who E Nesbitt is. And the only version of Little Women my kids know is the updated version, which my son was absolutely enamored by and loved with all his heart.

I think there is a certain amount of not seeing the forest for the trees going on in this thread. Yes, it's art and every word is beautiful and blah blah blah. But unless it's actually being enjoyed it sits on a shelf and is forgotten. The world changes and unless you are willing to change with it, it'll pass you by. You can go on and on and say it's "woke" or whatever but the fact is that if there's a goofball book that is encouraging language that is not tolerated 1) at school 2) in after school clubs 3) in social settings then that's not going to be a lot of parent's first choice to purchase when there are literally thousands of other purchasing options out there. This is a financial decision by the publisher, and a smart one at that. I don't want my kid to read stuff that encourages him to categorize fat people as being less than, because guess what? I'M FAT. But I'll go to the next book that is also a silly book with similar themes that makes him laugh that doesn't categorize people in that sort of way. It costs the same and suddenly I'm not cast as the villain. If that's me being woke then guess what, I'm woke. I'm "awake" to the fact that categorizing people for something that may be beyond their control kind of makes you a jerk and I don't want to train my kids that way. I have a spending amount and I'm going to be careful with that, like most people. The publishers aren't stupid and know that, and are recognizing that it is no longer the 1950s and this is how society is now.

I personally think the store clerk thing may have more to do with the fact that over here there are more self checkouts than actual people. I don't think it's anything deeper than that. I think, sadly (because I DESPISE self checkouts) that that's the way things are going to go and that's a way to avoid forcing a change in the future.

 

[ChantalS]

Oh the other point I wanted to make is that everything has evolved. How many people are aware of how Sleeping Beauty actually goes? Her name is Talia, not Aurora, and she is raped in her magic sleep. She gives birth to her rapists twins. He's actually married and ends up killing his wife and eating her, then marrying Talia who is trauma bonded with him. It's effed up.

The point is, stories evolve over time.

 

[ChantalS]

The mystery thickens- like uncaked dough. Do they taste like liquorice. I am crazy mad for a certain dutch salty liquorice no longer in production called Betty Sweet. In my idea of heaven my favourite dogs will greet me carrying a basket of these.

Is this a type of droppe? (I'm dutch, maiden name van Wijk).

 

[Pamela Jo]

Evolving doesn't come from one group. That is the fucked up thing about this. It didnt come from parents. it didnt come form the publisher. It didnt evolve. All the changes were decided on by ONE group given the power to decide what was offensive. This particular case may suit your own prejudgements. How about if the changes move a different direction? What if the changes indicate girls cant do boys things? Shouldn't leave the house without permission from a man? That the great leader must be obeyed without question? That skin colour is destiny? Is it still Ok to change a book? Deciding the past has to be cleansed is reminiscent of Mao's Cultural Revolution. The mirror image of the move to not teach real history.

 

[Hannah F]

Oh the other point I wanted to make is that everything has evolved. How many people are aware of how Sleeping Beauty actually goes? Her name is Talia, not Aurora, and she is raped in her magic sleep. She gives birth to her rapists twins. He's actually married and ends up killing his wife and eating her, then marrying Talia who is trauma bonded with him. It's effed up.

The point is, stories evolve over time.

There's a difference between a re-telling (as in the case of Sleeping Beauty) and simply changing the words. Dahl himself did re-tellings in his Revolting Rhymes (which I love!).

 

[Pamela Jo]

I can remember my mother used to change things in 'classic' books she read at bedtime that she knew would upset me, when I was 6 or 7. These would have been Grimm's Fairy Tales and Hans Christian Andersen.

Finding to her horror that The Little Match Girl – which she didn't know – didn't get better, but unremittingly worse, she declared we'd run out of time and we'd have the second half (actually the end bit) 'tomorrow'. First example of 'tomorrow never comes'.

I took the Match Girl with all the feels. But the Christmas tree story? Our tree stayed up til Valentines Day that year.

 

[Hannah F]

Here's the thing - I had the Beatrix Potter books as a kid and I couldn't have been less interested. My kids had the Roald Dahl books (mine) when they were young and were REALLY uninterested. Children's literature is probably the fastest moving genre besides picture books. It's all well and good to be nostalgic, but look at it from the money side of things. Stay current or die out. And when my kids were first getting into reading there were only iPad games to contend with, there wasn't instagram or TikTok. Now there's that as well (don't think some parent's aren't low minded enough to stick there kids in front of that because I KNOW those parents, sadly).

I'm pretty well read, but I don't know who E Nesbitt is. And the only version of Little Women my kids know is the updated version, which my son was absolutely enamored by and loved with all his heart.

I think there is a certain amount of not seeing the forest for the trees going on in this thread. Yes, it's art and every word is beautiful and blah blah blah. But unless it's actually being enjoyed it sits on a shelf and is forgotten. The world changes and unless you are willing to change with it, it'll pass you by. You can go on and on and say it's "woke" or whatever but the fact is that if there's a goofball book that is encouraging language that is not tolerated 1) at school 2) in after school clubs 3) in social settings then that's not going to be a lot of parent's first choice to purchase when there are literally thousands of other purchasing options out there. This is a financial decision by the publisher, and a smart one at that. I don't want my kid to read stuff that encourages him to categorize fat people as being less than, because guess what? I'M FAT. But I'll go to the next book that is also a silly book with similar themes that makes him laugh that doesn't categorize people in that sort of way. It costs the same and suddenly I'm not cast as the villain. If that's me being woke then guess what, I'm woke. I'm "awake" to the fact that categorizing people for something that may be beyond their control kind of makes you a jerk and I don't want to train my kids that way. I have a spending amount and I'm going to be careful with that, like most people. The publishers aren't stupid and know that, and are recognizing that it is no longer the 1950s and this is how society is now.

I personally think the store clerk thing may have more to do with the fact that over here there are more self checkouts than actual people. I don't think it's anything deeper than that. I think, sadly (because I DESPISE self checkouts) that that's the way things are going to go and that's a way to avoid forcing a change in the future.

You've got to read some E. Nesbit: The Railway Children; Five Children and IT; it's sequel, The Phoenix and the Carpet; it's sequel, The Story of the Amulet.

 

[Pamela Jo]

Just because Saki needs to be out there more. One of the very talented writers who died in WW1. Maybe I'll name my wolfhound puppy Gabriel Ernest.

The 10 Best Saki Stories Everyone Should Read

By Dr Oliver Tearle (Loughborough University) The English short-story writer Hector Hugh Munro (1870-1916), better known by his pen name Saki (a pen name he probably borrowed from The Rubaiyat of O…

interestingliterature.com

 

[Pamela Jo]

You've got to read some E. Nesbit: The Railway Children; Five Children and IT; it's sequel, The Phoenix and the Carpet; it's sequel, The Story of the Amulet.

We loved the BBC series of 5 children and It. The It was so damn believable. And a child's age makes a difference. I read Beatrix Potter to my kids, but by the time they were verbal they'd out grown her. It's not her stories that are so good, it is her illustrations. Five children and It

 

[ChantalS]

Evolving doesn't come from one group. That is the fucked up thing about this. It didnt come from parents. it didnt come form the publisher. It didnt evolve. All the changes were decided on by ONE group given the power to decide what was offensive. This particular case may suit your own prejudgements. How about if the changes move a different direction? What if the changes indicate girls cant do boys things? Shouldn't leave the house without permission from a man? That the great leader must be obeyed without question? That skin colour is destiny? Is it still Ok to change a book? Deciding the past has to be cleansed is reminiscent of Mao's Cultural Revolution. The mirror image of the move to not teach real history.

I think you might be missing what I'm saying though. The world as a whole has evolved. The global mindset has evolved. The people who are buying his books now, for the most part, are people with a radically different world view and mindset than when these books were written almost a century ago.

I really don't think changing a few words to make a children's story more inclusive is equal to Mao's cultural revolution. I honestly think you guys are making huge leaps. Next you're going to be equating this to communism.

 

[Hannah F]

I think you might be missing what I'm saying though. The world as a whole has evolved. The global mindset has evolved. The people who are buying his books now, for the most part, are people with a radically different world view and mindset than when these books were written almost a century ago.

I really don't think changing a few words to make a children's story more inclusive is equal to Mao's cultural revolution. I honestly think you guys are making huge leaps. Next you're going to be equating this to communism.

Luckily, sense has prevailed. Those who think cloaks and tractors shouldn't be black and witches most certainly shouldn't serve in a supermarket can read the gobblefunked version. Those who have a modern mindset but can still have a laugh when Dahl warns us not to look under people's wigs can read the classic version.
Anyone who disagrees with this compromise, off with their heads, I say, off with their heads.

Interestingly, a school - without consulting with parents or pupils - banned skirts in favour of a gender-neutral uniform. What has just happened? The children went on strike. They want freedom of expression, and some girls (and indeed some boys) actually like wearing skirts. (Me too.) I see parallels here. And suffice to say, the inclusion police made the families of Banbury cross.

 

[Hannah F]

Sensitivity reader, Virginia Mendez, writing in The Independent:

"I disagree with Puffin’s approach to editing the work of Dahl. To take a historic manuscript that is so obviously of its time and try to paper over the cracks seems extremely shortsighted.
What Puffin failed to grasp is the golden opportunity to embrace and encourage critical thinking in children.
Dahl’s books are important to many parents who read and loved them as children. And now, with the benefit of hindsight, we are able to use them as material to think further. If we disagree with terms like “fat” and “ugly”, we’re able to show our children how much society has evolved. We can do our best by our kids and explain why we no longer use certain terms and how words have the power to exclude or wound.
There’s no better time to engage with children than when reading. No better time to interrogate how damaging the word “ugly” can be and discuss why it’s unkind; or to explain why people all over the world speak unique languages and how that doesn’t make them weird.
These conversations are important. The way society progresses is a journey that kids need to understand and deserve to feel a part of. The idea that things are moving forward; that people are developing at different speeds (or in some cases, are determined to slow it down for everyone) is key for their understanding of the world and place in it.
Where we came from, where we are heading and how we are going to get there is part of their story too. And books, toys and films provide daily opportunities to discuss sensitive topics in an age-appropriate way. Let’s embrace their natural curiosity.
We can’t wrap our kids up in cotton wool, or sanitise life for them. What we can do is equip them with the skills to deal with situations that come up in a way that makes them more aware. That gives them ownership and choices about who they want to be and how they want to show up in the world.

There are amazing new books being released every day. Books that are beautifully written, diverse, inclusive and relevant to the world our children live in.
We don’t need to cancel the things that no longer resonate with us. We can either engage with them critically or opt to move away."

 

[ChantalS]

I don’t see the parallel, actually. One is making people feel more included and less as an outsider in society and the other is stripping away any identity whatsoever. But I am against uniforms entirely, and have a non binary kid who would absolutely lose their shit over a mandate like that.

Anyway it seems like a good compromise to me. And ultimately it’s got people talking about Dahl, which nobody was doing a week ago. Will it translate to sales? Time will tell. I have my doubts actually.

 

[ChantalS]

Sensitivity reader, Virginia Mendez, writing in The Independent:

"I disagree with Puffin’s approach to editing the work of Dahl. To take a historic manuscript that is so obviously of its time and try to paper over the cracks seems extremely shortsighted.
What Puffin failed to grasp is the golden opportunity to embrace and encourage critical thinking in children.
Dahl’s books are important to many parents who read and loved them as children. And now, with the benefit of hindsight, we are able to use them as material to think further. If we disagree with terms like “fat” and “ugly”, we’re able to show our children how much society has evolved. We can do our best by our kids and explain why we no longer use certain terms and how words have the power to exclude or wound.
There’s no better time to engage with children than when reading. No better time to interrogate how damaging the word “ugly” can be and discuss why it’s unkind; or to explain why people all over the world speak unique languages and how that doesn’t make them weird.
These conversations are important. The way society progresses is a journey that kids need to understand and deserve to feel a part of. The idea that things are moving forward; that people are developing at different speeds (or in some cases, are determined to slow it down for everyone) is key for their understanding of the world and place in it.
Where we came from, where we are heading and how we are going to get there is part of their story too. And books, toys and films provide daily opportunities to discuss sensitive topics in an age-appropriate way. Let’s embrace their natural curiosity.
We can’t wrap our kids up in cotton wool, or sanitise life for them. What we can do is equip them with the skills to deal with situations that come up in a way that makes them more aware. That gives them ownership and choices about who they want to be and how they want to show up in the world.

There are amazing new books being released every day. Books that are beautifully written, diverse, inclusive and relevant to the world our children live in.
We don’t need to cancel the things that no longer resonate with us. We can either engage with them critically or opt to move away."

I see her point. The sad truth is that most parents won’t. Most parents are dorking around on their phones or, in my neighborhood, plowing through another bottle of wine. I do love the idea of these think pieces but I often wonder what reality the authors are living in. Not one that matches with the one I see.

For what it’s worth I went over this controversy at dinner and my 14 year old sides with you. They think this entire thing is ridiculous, and then asked me and their dad if this is the type of b.s. they have to look forward to when they get older and why can’t us adults figure out solutions to actual problems. I think that might be the smartest thing yet. Focus on actual problems instead of inventing made up ones.

 

[Bloo]

You didn't see them that way, though it still had that effect. Subtlety is influential. Preaching isn't.

It's the weekend, so I'm drunk (again). I really shouldn't be posting in an inebriated <-- (autocorrect fixed this), state, yet here we are.

I don't see how those books affected me - at least not in a way you think they should have. I was fully aware that they were works of fiction when I read them as a child. I wasn't aware of any subtle messages within the prose.

Most fiction is merely entertainment. Kids aren't looking for lessons in a story, not will they be receptive to any unless they are painfully obvious. Kids do not appreciate (or even recognize) subtlety.

Furthermore, there is a chasm between subtle influence and preaching. Somewhere in the middle, you'll find teaching. Even so, that continuum doesn't often apply to fiction. As I mentioned just before, it's usually just entertainment.

If a story is good, it can teach (not preach) as well as entertain. Many Star Trek television eps are thinly-disguised morality plays that employed some fine story telling.

Fat Albert was another TV show that kept kids interested while imparting important life lessons. The MC was fat, and nobody cared coz he was cool and smart. The most attractive character was Rudy. He was tall and thin yet nobody liked him. Even young viewers like myself could see how much of a self-centered jerk he was.

Childrens' writing need not be sterilized to be inclusive. Agustus Gloop was a spoiled fat kid. Veruca Salt was a spoiled skinny one. The idea that anyone can be a jerk sounds pretty inclusive to me.

I really think some adults project fear and prejudice onto children. Works of fiction don't inform young children nearly as much as parents. If a child is a bigoted, sexist, or otherwise intolerant, don't blame books. Blame adults.

 

[Bloo]

...some girls (and indeed some boys) actually like wearing skirts. (Me too.)

You're a boy

 

[Bloo]

...If that's me being woke then guess what, I'm woke. I'm "awake" to the fact that categorizing people for something that may be beyond their control kind of makes you a jerk and I don't want to train my kids that way. I have a spending amount and I'm going to be careful with that, like most people. The publishers aren't stupid and know that, and are recognizing that it is no longer the 1950s and this is how society is now.

I personally think the store clerk thing may have more to do with the fact that over here there are more self checkouts than actual people. I don't think it's anything deeper than that. I think, sadly (because I DESPISE self checkouts) that that's the way things are going to go and that's a way to avoid forcing a change in the future.

I know what "woke" is - and it's often not the caricature lots of people make it out to be. It's simply being "aware" in the same sense as walking a mile in someone else's shoes.

About self-checkouts...I avoid them unconditionally. They are job-killers, pure and simple.