RIP Genius Room… What’s Next? You Decide!

[AgentPete]

Note… this is not an ordinary thread… you can post your thoughts, comments and suggestions in the usual way, but in addition you can also upvote or downvote other folks’ suggestions. So if you like someone else’s suggestion… click on the upvote arrow… and vice versa.

It’s official – we’re no longer calling Pop-Up Submission’s Genius Room the Genius Room.

Not that its denizens are any less intelligent. It’s just that, likie most authors, they’re kinda shy and don’t like vaunting their acuity.

So… what shall we now call the-room-formerly-known-as-Genius?

Over to you…!

 

[AgentPete]

Today's scores just posted, btw:

Today's Pop-Ups - Final Scores

Many apologies (not the least to the authors) for the lack of live scoreboard on today’s Pop-Ups. This was caused by… deep breath… a plugin that controls communications between our website (where scores are entered) and Google Sheets (where scores are calculated). It decided to update itself...

colony.litopia.com

 

[Hannah F]

Peyton hit on the perfect solution. The Ingenious Room and the Ingenues.

If we want to be really accurate - Popups offers Beta readers. A room full of juicy, luscious beta readers to try ideas on. Not critics. That is an important distinction.
Popups also gives writers a clear understanding of:
A. Why it is so very important to research and submit to the right agent or publisher.
B. Why it's necessary to know your reader and the market.
C. Why you never start with your MC waking up or looking in a mirror.

Pub Name: Planet Beta

Trouble is a) it will sound like beater b) many submitters won't have gotten as far as understanding the difference between a beta read and a critique.

 

[RK Wallis]

Another, just for fun, the Masochists

 

[Pamela Jo]

Trouble is a) it will sound like beater b) many submitters won't have gotten as far as understanding the difference between a beta read and a critique.

Popups is a good place to learn that difference, dont ya think? Better than sending it into an agent wo having a beta read.

 

[TimRees]

The Wolf Pack
The Savage Crew
The Blood Suckers
The Tribe of Cannibals
The Dastardly Dozen
The Ball kickers

That was a laugh an a half...

 

[Pamela Jo]

The Wolf Pack
The Savage Crew
The Blood Suckers
The Tribe of Cannibals
The Dastardly Dozen
The Ball kickers

That was a laugh an a half...

Um. I think you took the wrong turn. The Rogue SAS Litopian branch meets at midnight, not 5pm.

 

[Hannah F]

The First Aiders

 

[Hannah F]

The Rapid Responders

 

[Jethro]

Perhaps 'The Phoenix Room''?

 

[Jan L]

The Writers Room.

 

[Eva Ulian]

The Writers Room.

To me this sums it all up Jan.

 

[TimRees]

Okay, so I'm going to throw a spanner in the works; I'm going to suggest everyone in the genius room (critic room) is qualified to critique a novel. have they written two or more... what qualifies a critique in the genius room to make the judgement? I think we need a line...

 

[Brooke]

Okay, so I'm going to throw a spanner in the works; I'm going to suggest everyone in the genius room (critic room) is qualified to critique a novel. have they written two or more... what qualifies a critique in the genius room to make the judgement? I think we need a line...

agreed, for the most part-- having a published novel (or two) isn't necessarily the sole qualifier for being a writer. there are lots of things that make up a writer, and there are lots of things that may prevent a writer from getting a book published (time taken to edit, time taken to get an agent, time taken for an agent to get a publisher, time in general.) having published books is definitely an indicator of being a good writer, but it shouldn't be the only way to show you're qualified to critique.
on the other hand, i don't think we should allow just anybody to come in and critique. it would be interesting to have a segment where any reader can provide their thoughts on it, but for the "real" critics, there should be some form of qualification.
(excuse me if this is written sloppily! i hope i got my point across, but i'm rather tired right now )

 

[Hannah F]

Okay, so I'm going to throw a spanner in the works; I'm going to suggest everyone in the genius room (critic room) is qualified to critique a novel. have they written two or more... what qualifies a critique in the genius room to make the judgement? I think we need a line...

Kinda why we should steer away from using "critique" in the name of the room/box/tank/cafe/bar. And why some people are averse to calling it the genius room. Everyone in Litopia is a writer and, I hope, a reader. What the Litopians (formerly known as the geniuses) do is simply give an immediate first reaction to the first 700 words. Often there is consensus. Sometimes there's vastly differing opinions. But it's not a critique. The way a person responds is never wrong. It's just the way they respond. The great thing about it though is it lets the author know how people do respond. Where there's consensus that something's not working/there's too little emotion/the dialogue isn't natural, the author can take note and address the issue if they want to. Where the consensus is that this work is great, the author can smile and know they can move forward with this project in whatever way they wish to. Varying opinions will make them ponder, and that is good too. And there's a balance in the show in the form of a special guest who does tick the box of having the know how.

As an aside, I've read published books which are great and others which are very badly written or a load of trash. I've read unpublished works which far surpass many published ones. As @Brooke notes, there are many reasons why a book may not (yet) be published. Quality is not necessarily the reason.

 

[Eva Ulian]

There are no qualifications that makes you a writer, are there?
Think deeply about this one please, it's not just a straight yes or no answer, is it?

 

[RK Wallis]

Okay, so I'm going to throw a spanner in the works; I'm going to suggest everyone in the genius room (critic room) is qualified to critique a novel. have they written two or more... what qualifies a critique in the genius room to make the judgement? I think we need a line...

@Hannah F says it all...I'm with Hannah

 

[Claire G]

I would say that we're qualified because we're readers, not because we're writers. We're the audience giving our immediate thoughts and feelings as readers. The fact that we write is incidental to me, except for the fact that reviewing others' work helps us with our own craft. It's a two-way street.

 

[Barbara]

The Instant Reaction Group. And we could be the Reactionistas / Reactionists.

Or The Immediate Response Crew. The First Responders.

Or something with Gut Reactions but I can't think of anything (just don't use Gutter ).

Or First Impressions somethingoranother.

 

[Hannah F]

The Instant Reaction Group. And we could be the Reactionistas / Reactionists.

Or The Immediate Response Crew. The First Responders.

Or something with Gut Reactions but I can't think of anything (just don't use Gutter ).

Or First Impressions somethingoranother.

Yeah, that sixth sense that something is working. (But maybe not The Bone Feelers either.)

 

[Pamela Jo]

I think we've come full circle as to why Pete first went with the tongue in cheek, teasing title of Genius Room. It was really a little poke at critics and experts who pronounce judgement. No submitter was really supposed to believe there were genius's gathered to pronounce their work of equal genius. But it was meant to turn attention back to your audience. As Kurt Vonnegut said, "Pity the poor reader." The first thing an agent wants to know is not whether your work is genius-but who is going to read it.

 

[TimRees]

The Instant Reaction Group. And we could be the Reactionistas / Reactionists.

Or The Immediate Response Crew. The First Responders.

Or something with Gut Reactions but I can't think of anything (just don't use Gutter ).

Or First Impressions somethingoranother.

Hi Barbara,

It's great to have an instant reaction, but they're reacting to the first 700 words and 700 words does not a novel make. I think every reader will make a judgement on the quality of writing in the first 700 and maybe get a good idea how the author will progress the novel, but those judgements are purely subjective and every reader will have differing opinions.

For instance, I was advised to look up an author who'd written 19 novels in a SciFi series he'd self published. I read the first couple of pages of the first novel, but it wasn't for me. Too much like reading a comic. But the author's books have had many thousands of five star ratings. (I'm not sure how a self-published book gathers that many ratings? There has to be a trick to it that probably involves cheating, because the books aren't in the top hundred, but that's an aside). It would appear SciFi readers are obviously loving this writer's work, so who am I to judge? My opinion is worthless. Imagine if I'd told that author on Pop-Ups that reading the first seven hundred words of his first novel was like reading a comic? I think it would have been quite a savage blow, and it was only my opinion.

For me, as a novelist, the only immediate reaction I'm interested in on the first 700 words is did the reader want to read on? I think we should maybe have some sort of show of hands from listeners/readers on only that point.

 

[AgentPete]

Egads, enough already!

That the thing about writers, you ask them for one simple suggestion… and you get a perpetual tsunami!

Going with “The Litopians” for now, worked quite well last week (need some graphics, tho).

 

[Lex Black]

Everyone in Litopia is a writer and, I hope, a reader.

"If you don't have time to read, you don't have time to write."
~Steven King

"Enough with the quotes already! You're impressing nobody!"
~Everyone who isn't Lex

Egads, enough already!

You'll never take me alive!

The Red Pen Warehouse! Back Matter Holds the Universe Together! Serial Comma Killers! Apostrophe Now!

 

[Pamela Jo]

Hi Barbara,

It's great to have an instant reaction, but they're reacting to the first 700 words and 700 words does not a novel make. I think every reader will make a judgement on the quality of writing in the first 700 and maybe get a good idea how the author will progress the novel, but those judgements are purely subjective and every reader will have differing opinions.

For instance, I was advised to look up an author who'd written 19 novels in a SciFi series he'd self published. I read the first couple of pages of the first novel, but it wasn't for me. Too much like reading a comic. But the author's books have had many thousands of five star ratings. (I'm not sure how a self-published book gathers that many ratings? There has to be a trick to it that probably involves cheating, because the books aren't in the top hundred, but that's an aside). It would appear SciFi readers are obviously loving this writer's work, so who am I to judge? My opinion is worthless. Imagine if I'd told that author on Pop-Ups that reading the first seven hundred words of his first novel was like reading a comic? I think it would have been quite a savage blow, and it was only my opinion.

For me, as a novelist, the only immediate reaction I'm interested in on the first 700 words is did the reader want to read on? I think we should maybe have some sort of show of hands from listeners/readers on only that point.

And again there is the rub and why it is important to have a room full of readers. Because some will and some won't read on. You have to learn to recognise the ones that will. That is your target audience. If they are a tiny minority of people who buy books you are going to have trouble finding an agent. Or making money. The bang score on Popups includes whether you would read on, and if you think others will. It is amazing how many submitters say they have written multiple novels. Writing them is really not as relevant as having someone plunk down real cash and read them. If you follow the instructions for the Laboratory on Litopia you are good to go for Popups. No writerly opinions. Because we would always rewrite in our own image. The most useful information you can give is from your reader gut.

 

[RK Wallis]

Writing them is really not as relevant as having someone plunk down real cash and read them

I'd go so far to say 'plunk down real cash' isn't important. I've bought many a book I can't finish. The elusive magic is in writing a book that inspires word of mouth.

 

[AgentPete]

I'd go so far to say 'plunk down real cash' isn't important. I've bought many a book I can't finish. The elusive magic is in writing a book that inspires word of mouth.

So true. The importance of a good finish is little discussed, but vitally important in building your audience and good word of mouth...

 

[Hannah F]

So true. The importance of a good finish is little discussed, but vitally important in building your audience and good word of mouth...

There are many times when I've re-written the end of a book for myself because I was so unsatisfied with its actual finish.

 

[MattScho]

Okay, so I'm going to throw a spanner in the works; I'm going to suggest everyone in the genius room (critic room) is qualified to critique a novel. have they written two or more... what qualifies a critique in the genius room to make the judgement? I think we need a line...

Counter point: Every reader of every work is always a critic. This is the point of beta reading, which is what the room is, it's an immediate reaction by readers. We offer the added value of being people devoted to writing, so we're kind and try to be helpful. The enormous value to it is that most writers need that sort of breadth of reaction, but don't get it.
As Pete says, the genius room is always right, never wrong. It's fascinating when you see these people from different places all reaching similar emotional reactions to the first 700 words of a piece. It means something. If readers react poorly, or with confusion, to our work, we're not doing it right. The idea that we in the room are all genius is amusing. but the hive mind of the room? that is genius.
Also, having worked as a book critic in the past (and knowing a lot, I mean a lot, of them), i think you're overthinking what it takes to be a professional critic. It also points out the value of the room. What does it require? Saying yes when a co-worker (with me, often a friend) would hand me a book and say, can you give me a 600 word review for Sunday? Let's say $250? Usually books, because there are so many books, but I've helped out with plays, movies, etc. Crikey, I was once asked to review Remy Martin Louis XIII, which was a nice assignment.

 

[E G Logan]

The Lizard Lounge…?

Oh, PLEASE no.

 

[AgentPete]

Oh, PLEASE no.

Oh alright then