Refurbished Computers

[Paul Whybrow]

My Acer Aspire 5735z laptop is now in its eighth year of operation, and seeing as how it's in use for 16 hours every day, it's doing well. I use a cooling cradle, which blows air from a fan into its works, adding the hurricane blast of a freestanding fan in summer. The biggest enemy of computers is heat.

I sometimes feel a bit panicky about how dependent I am on my laptop, so finding affordable suppliers of refurbished machines is a useful resource:

Is it worth buying a refurbished PC for under £150?

 

[Howard]

Coming at this from the point of view of someone who was a hardware technician and specialist PC builder for 15 years? No, its not the best choice.
Second hand hardware is just a crutch, and it is a crutch that will fail, IMHO.
Good news is, hardware is cheap, if you only want simple things. If all you need is something to type on, and maybe peruse the internet a little, then you really don't need to spend much. That is, assuming you are happy with a more desktop-like arrangement.
Given the actual power requirements of word processing (ie they are nothing at all) you could go as crazy as just buying a Raspberry Pi. The cost of it, a keyboard and mouse and all the bits to set it up would be under £70. All you need then is an output of some sort, be it a cheap monitor or even your TV. And an older LCD panel could cost you under £40, if you don't mind something smaller.
Sounds a bit crazy, but if all you want is to write, that will do you grand. You can throw a few extra quid into the keyboard, in fact, to make the experience more pleasant. Your OS and your Office suite would be free, after all!
Sure, you can go in for one of these corporate refurbs, and they can be perfectly decent! But you are, quite frankly, paying for a lot of guff that the average writer has no interest in. Massive hard drive space? XX gigs of RAM? Multicore CPUs? What use are they for typing?

If, however, you want a laptop arrangement? Well, then money is key. Cheap laptops are more or less an oxymoron. As I put it to prospective customers who say they want to spend only a few hundred pounds on a laptop: saying you can buy a laptop for £200 is like saying you can buy a washing machine for £20. Sure, you could, but would you really want a washing machine that cost so little? There is a reason cheap things are cheap, and its not because people want to feel good about giving you a good deal. There is, after all, no such thing as a free lunch.

 

[Carol Rose]

I think of my laptop as one of my writing tools. It is, after all. Not sure about other countries, but here in the USA, the cost of purchasing one is tax deductible for my writing, as is the cost of a new keyboard, software I use in writing, etc. I've been lucky with the MacBooks. They last a LONG time compared to any Windows PCs I once had. And I'm on this thing all day long, every day. This one is going on three years old, and so far (knocking on wood!) I've only had to have the keyboard replaced. Gee ... I wonder why? LOL!!

 

[Howard]

Yeah, MacBooks get stick in some arenas, and their price is much higher, so I wasn't about to start touting them in a thread about frugality, but they are undeniably a better experience. I've only had mine a year, but getting away form a tacky old Windows machine has been enormously pleasant.

 

[ChrisLewando]

H'm. Just had to buy another computer, then the printer didn't work, nor the scanner, nor even the blessed screen as the processor had doubled in size. For those of us who can't tax deduct because we aren't making any money, this is a big issue. I let my kit all get too old, because it worked fine, but when one bit goes, everything goes. It's all part of the great consumer scam to keep us spending money, keepign those guys in the industry making big bucks. I was happy with the old version of Word. The new version is just annoying, things appearing and disappearing on the screen with a swish of the mouse - whoopie, there it goes again - when all I want to do is get on with my work. Without giving my age away, my first computer was a whopping great 386 with a 250 mg hard drive,, and look where we are now. But, actually, the 386 was fine for writing. But we can't stand still. It's not allowed. God forbid those gamers can't stop earning dragon points.

 

[Carol Rose]

Yeah, MacBooks get stick in some arenas, and their price is much higher, so I wasn't about to start touting them in a thread about frugality, but they are undeniably a better experience. I've only had mine a year, but getting away form a tacky old Windows machine has been enormously pleasant.

This is my second one. The first lasted 6 years, and that was with me writing on it all the time as well. Before that, we went through four Windows PCs in our house in seven years. Crazy! I love these things. I will never go back. When I think of all the money I spent replacing Windows PCs in such a short time, as compared to the cost of only two of these, they are far less expensive over time. Plus, they're trouble free. No fuss, no muss. Apple had my entire keyboard/track pad replaced in one day. I didn't even have to ship it anywhere. Just took it to the local Apple store and they got it done.

 

[Carol Rose]

H'm. Just had to buy another computer, then the printer didn't work, nor the scanner, nor even the blessed screen as the processor had doubled in size. For those of us who can't tax deduct because we aren't making any money, this is a big issue. I let my kit all get too old, because it worked fine, but when one bit goes, everything goes. It's all part of the great consumer scam to keep us spending money, keepign those guys in the industry making big bucks. I was happy with the old version of Word. The new version is just annoying, things appearing and disappearing on the screen with a swish of the mouse - whoopie, there it goes again - when all I want to do is get on with my work. Without giving my age away, my first computer was a whopping great 386 with a 250 mg hard drive,, and look where we are now. But, actually, the 386 was fine for writing. But we can't stand still. It's not allowed. God forbid those gamers can't stop earning dragon points.

You might be able to deduct the expenses even if you aren't making any money. I didn't make a profit for the first three years I wrote but I still took deductions. I filed a Schedule C (not sure if you're in the USA). You don't have to make a profit to do it that way.

 

[Amber]

Laptops aren't expensive anymore and unless you're gaming, creating graphics or video, or engaging in memory intensive tasks, they work fine. So, if all you're doing is writing and browsing the internet, you'll be okay. I have a laptop I got for 300 a few months ago -- that's about 212 pounds. It works fine and now that I think about it, I am using it for a media server. Eh. Forgot I did that. But if I was using it to write I'd shut down the media server and restart Word.

Also, there are some resell stores online. I've used both of these and they're very good:

Mac of All Trades

Gazelle

The 300 laptop I got at Walmart. It's as good as any word processor ever was and a good media server too. Although.... probably not the brightest thing I've done ... it's still working fine.

I've bought MACs from the other sites. I think Mac of All Trades sells Windows machines though too.

 

[Amber]

I think of my laptop as one of my writing tools. It is, after all. Not sure about other countries, but here in the USA, the cost of purchasing one is tax deductible for my writing, as is the cost of a new keyboard, software I use in writing, etc. I've been lucky with the MacBooks. They last a LONG time compared to any Windows PCs I once had. And I'm on this thing all day long, every day. This one is going on three years old, and so far (knocking on wood!) I've only had to have the keyboard replaced. Gee ... I wonder why? LOL!!

Yeah. I had to replace the keyboard on my mac and my windows laptop. That was easy but not much fun. But you're right, it's all tax deductible here.

 

[Amber]

H'm. Just had to buy another computer, then the printer didn't work, nor the scanner, nor even the blessed screen as the processor had doubled in size. For those of us who can't tax deduct because we aren't making any money, this is a big issue. I let my kit all get too old, because it worked fine, but when one bit goes, everything goes. It's all part of the great consumer scam to keep us spending money, keepign those guys in the industry making big bucks. I was happy with the old version of Word. The new version is just annoying, things appearing and disappearing on the screen with a swish of the mouse - whoopie, there it goes again - when all I want to do is get on with my work. Without giving my age away, my first computer was a whopping great 386 with a 250 mg hard drive,, and look where we are now. But, actually, the 386 was fine for writing. But we can't stand still. It's not allowed. God forbid those gamers can't stop earning dragon points.

I thought you were in the US. In the US you can deduct from your taxes. Although ... I know more about almost anything else than I do about taxes .... so.... yeah.. that's not carved in stone.

My guess is that there weren't enough of the right kind of ports on your new computer or enough ports at all and perhaps your peripheral devices weren't wireless and so you couldn't use that option...and likely your video card had certain requirements...although there's usually adapters. But scrambling around trying to solve those issues would have been a nightmare for anyone. Sometimes it is less trouble to simply buy more new stuff to go with the new stuff you've purchased. Maybe in the future there will be some sort of market for people who want their computers to be just like the one that no longer works.

It does seem like a lot of what tech manufacturers do is simply to make more money. I got a new phone a day or so before Apple updated me out of the one I was using. I barely missed what seems to me like Apple's planned and forced obsolescence. I find myself irritated more often than I used to be because, all of my tech does exactly what I want it to do. I don't need it to do anything more. Updating me out of my phone or my fireTV or any of my devices... pisses me off. I can choose not to update but then ... it stops working because it didn't have the update.

Our tech toys and tools are different from everything else. We're forced into an ongoing relationship with a company who definitely doesn't have our best interest in mind. But that's a different post.. probably.

 

[ChrisLewando]

At the risk of boring: the issues were technical. Ports, yes, but also software, moving from an older processor to a newer with with double the bits/bytes whatever. My peripherals were 15 years old, and worked fine, but this is the age of interface compatibility or throw away and buy new... My 'new' computer is reconditioned ex-office, and hopefully will last me for another 15 years - though I doubt it!

 

[Howard]

Not to a be a noodge, but getting 15 years of service from a computer is literal, actual insanity! A pan wouldn't be expected to last that long, nor a sofa, nor a car! And they are not bleeding edge, luxury items!
FWIW, the rate of advancement in computing has been slowing for some time, now. CPUs have made no leaps in 7 years, only incremental upgrades. The last 20 years contained some scary big changes because a lot of what was set out 5 decades ago when computing began was ill conceived. It has all very much settled down, now.
However, those who choose to buy the cheapest item they can at the point of changing their setup will still be in a for a bad time. I understand constraints in money - better than most, believe me - but you cannot have it all the ways. If money is your defining limitation (as is so often that case) then you have to accept what you can get for what it is. At that point, gaining a deeper understanding of your device's working is highly recommended. After all, if you must have a car for work, but all you can afford is a junker, you had best learnt to service your own engine.

This is the other area in which Apple products break the usual curve. A Windows laptop bought today that is anything less than flagship has halved in value by the time you get it out of the box. In one year, you wont get 20% of its cost back at the point of resale and in two, it is more or less worthless.
A MacBook bought today can (crazily enough) increase in price for the first 6 - 8 months, and will then hold onto at least 80% of its value for the first two years. Even ten years hence, the Mac will still have a solid chunk of its value left, and not because of collectors, but because the thing will still work! After ten years, all a windows laptop can hope to do is prop open doors.

 

[Carol Rose]

I get all tingly inside when you all start talking techie stuff!

But seriously, this is really useful information. Thank you.

 

[Howard]

I get all tingly inside when you all start talking techie stuff!

How do you think I get so lucky with the ladies, baby?! *finger_guns*

 

[ChrisLewando]

My 15-year old computer lasted that long because it was big, and steam-powered. And my vehicles likewise. 1955 Bedford bus, and 1956 landrover. I'm going new, soon. 1976 landrover. And on these things you can do the engines, there's not a piece of electronics in sight. And how are you putting these little smileys up? Can't find none my end.

 

[Howard]

And how are you putting these little smileys up? Can't find none my end.

As you are editing, look at the top of the edit window. There is a smilie face, dead centre(ish)

 

[Howard]

As an aside, is it just me, or has @Paul Whybrow hit on something with this title? I think I would be drawn to read something called Refurbished Computers. I imagine it is something melancholy and heart-wrenching, about the difficulty in finding love after falling out of some great romance that spanned years. That, deep down inside, are we not all refurbished computers, ourselves?

...Yeah, I've not had coffee yet...

 

[Carol Rose]

How do you think I get so lucky with the ladies, baby?! *finger_guns*

LOL!!!!!!!

 

[AgentPete]

Got a ten year old IBM ThinkPad. Was getting a bit hot - redid the thermal paste around cpu, good for another ten!

 

[Howard]

Got a ten year old IBM ThinkPad. Was getting a bit hot - redid the thermal paste around cpu, good for another ten!

Well, yeah! But that's a Thinkpad! Those things and the cockroaches will be all that is left, after the fall!

 

[Paul Whybrow]

As an aside, is it just me, or has @Paul Whybrow hit on something with this title? I think I would be drawn to read something called Refurbished Computers. I imagine it is something melancholy and heart-wrenching, about the difficulty in finding love after falling out of some great romance that spanned years. That, deep down inside, are we not all refurbished computers, ourselves?

...Yeah, I've not had coffee yet...

Oh, baby, I dun got the floppy hard drive blues again....

 

[Amber]

You might be able to deduct the expenses even if you aren't making any money. I didn't make a profit for the first three years I wrote but I still took deductions. I filed a Schedule C (not sure if you're in the USA). You don't have to make a profit to do it that way.

I'm not sure the number of years is specified but this matches my understanding. I thought it was five ... but I also seem to recall those were estimates....

 

[Amber]

Got a ten year old IBM ThinkPad. Was getting a bit hot - redid the thermal paste around cpu, good for another ten!

Thermal paste .... sounds positively sci-fi.

But I looked it up and it's all around me.

 

[Carol Rose]

I'm not sure the number of years is specified but this matches my understanding. I thought it was five ... but I also seem to recall those were estimates....

Do you mean that you have to make a profit before they consider it a hobby and not a business? There is no limit on the number of years for businesses like writing, as long as you expect to make a profit. That being said, I'm not a tax professional, but this is one of the links I was given to help explain this.

https://www.freelancetaxation.com/hobby-loss-can-artists-take-losses-on-their-tax-returns

 

[Amber]

Not to a be a noodge, but getting 15 years of service from a computer is literal, actual insanity!

Well... yeah ... suppose so... although, I wouldn't call it insanity... It's difficult. I know people with systems creeping up on ... oh ... ten years. But all of their parts are not their original parts.

Originally upgrades were and keeping up were something it made sense to do. As I believe you point out below, the pace is slowing down, just as one would expect. Now we need computer manufacturers and software engineers to knock off their f*ery.

A pan wouldn't be expected to last that long, nor a sofa, nor a car! And they are not bleeding edge, luxury items!

Cheap pans. You get what you pay for. And ... sometimes it doesn't even have to be expensive. I have some things in my kitchen which I've had since my son was born and even a few things from when I was married. Sofas ... cars ... I mean ... good craftsmanship lasts decades ... They're called antiques and millions are spent on them every year. My father had a 1968 Mustang. I'm not sure what finally did that car in ... I think it was my brother ... but he didn't get his hands on it until 1986 and then had it for at least a few more years.

I have a rocking chair I paid $5 for which I bought before my son was born. Which makes it $25 years old ... at least. I bought it used.

FWIW, the rate of advancement in computing has been slowing for some time, now. CPUs have made no leaps in 7 years, only incremental upgrades. The last 20 years contained some scary big changes because a lot of what was set out 5 decades ago when computing began was ill conceived. It has all very much settled down, now.

This is the other area in which Apple products break the usual curve. A Windows laptop bought today that is anything less than flagship has halved in value by the time you get it out of the box. In one year, you wont get 20% of its cost back at the point of resale and in two, it is more or less worthless.
A MacBook bought today can (crazily enough) increase in price for the first 6 - 8 months, and will then hold onto at least 80% of its value for the first two years. Even ten years hence, the Mac will still have a solid chunk of its value left, and not because of collectors, but because the thing will still work! After ten years, all a windows laptop can hope to do is prop open doors.

What I like about Macs is there are lots of things I don't have to think about as a user. When I use a Mac I don't have to think about what's happening. On my Windows machine, there are more choices, more decisions to make, and making the wrong decision can result in a pretty poor user experience. But I like how much control I have.

 

[Amber]

You mean that you don't have to make a profit? There is no limit on the number of years.

Right. I only did this for one year -- only filed as a writer not making a profit for one year. I hate taxes so someone would need to look it up but I don't believe the IRS comes out and says, "G'head, file as a writer and don't make a profit for five years." If I recall the number is an estimate of the number of years you can file without making a profit without the IRS auditing you.

 

[Carol Rose]

Right. I only did this for one year -- only filed as a writer not making a profit for one year. I hate taxes so someone would need to look it up but I don't believe the IRS comes out and says, "G'head, file as a writer and don't make a profit for five years." If I recall the number is an estimate of the number of years you can file without making a profit without the IRS auditing you.

I edited the post with a link that helped explain it for me. But again, I'm not a tax professional. So it would be best to check with one for specifics on this question.

 

[ChrisLewando]

In Ireland, if you register as an artist you can earn 40k before you start paying taxes. Chances would be a fine thing. I just earned 150 for a short story in the Hollybough (which was more than I'd been expecting), and last year I got 300 for a 12 x episode soap in a local paper. Not exactly taxable income methinks, or a living.

 

[Carol Rose]

The laws are different everywhere. It's best to check with a tax professional.

I don't make a living strictly off my writing either, but I am able to claim deductions for things I spend related to the writing. Conferences, promotion, ads, my home office (in part), etc. Because I haven't been spending a lot of money the past couple of years, it looks like I've made a profit. LOL!