Miles or Kilometres?

[Alistair Roberts]

Yes I spelt it kilometres, not kilometers! The latter looks wrong and isn't the correct spelling in Australia or New Zealand. I suspect it might be American, even though they don't use it? Anyway, my question is which is best to use in a novel these days? If I was still in Australia there would be no question. Both countries went fully metric about 1973. However the UK is very piecemeal which seems rather silly. Most is metric, but not speed, which is still MPH (so few countries use that), and distance seems to be mostly miles but metric measurements are also use.

I'm in the middle of editing one of my novels, and into UK English which is in fact slightly different to Australian English. We have spoilt brats, but the UK only has spoiled brats! It's rather intriguing the differences we do have. Still, my novel is set in the 16th century, although that's kind of beside the point. What do publishers and readers prefer in the UK? I suspect the older ones want miles, where-as the younger ones might want kilometres for distance (nothing to do with speed)? Thoughts?

 

[Brian Clegg]

I don't think the 'set in the 16th century' is at all beside the point. If I read a book set in 2300, I don't raise an eyebrow about a distance measured in kilometres (or klicks), but for a 16th century setting, I think it would just seem anachronistic for kilometres to appear - even if it was used by the voice of the author, rather than a character.

 

[Katie-Ellen]

What Brian said. My two are spoilt brats, but only at home, delightful everywhere else, and who spoiled them.....
Not I, said the rat, bat, cat.

 

[Alistair Roberts]

Ah, good points, thanks

 

[tabby3]

Canada went metric back in the day as well. In Ontario, where I live it's kilometers on the speed signs, but we are also a hodgepodge. Hand tools for example are still measured in inches. Houses are measured using both systems--take your choice. As far as publishing goes though, we're strictly American, even in our local newspapers. So honour becomes honor, neighbour becomes neighbor and so on.

 

[Jason Byrne]

I was walking around in the basement and blew the dust off this one. I thought it was worth bringing back around, since good Alistair only got a few responses with input, and I'm curious as well. Yes, meters and kilometers are Americanisms.

I use entirely US customary units, because I'm an American and my heal-to-toe is a good enough basis of measurement for the whole goddamn world.

In all seriousness, though, my stories are generally set in the Middle Ages, and US Customary units and the Imperial system are similar to and an easy simplification of the period English units of poppyseeds, lines, barleycorns, digits, fingers, hands, inches, nails, palms, shaftments, links, spans, feet, cubits, yards, ells, fathoms, rods, chains, furlongs, miles, and leagues (wow).

When I wrote Roman-based fantasy, I used milaria because it was still essentially a mile and an easy analogue.

However, if I find an agent who finds a publisher who will agree to try an international market, I'm also going to try for language localization. For a lot of you, localization should be localisation, meter should be metre, and foot should also be metre. Maneuver should be manoeuvre. Smoldering should be smouldering. Woolen should be woollen.

Language localization would go through the entire book and make these changes, for publication in the UK market, possibly even completely changing American idioms like "I just don't like it, is all," "snuck around," and "shucked his boots," (thank you Marc, I had no idea).

So, while I write exclusively in US customary and even though it is a European Middle Ages story, I would try to have it 'localized' entirely into modern metric units as that is what is most natural for everyone else. Except Burma and Liberia. See below for a map of countries that have officially adopted the metric system:

 

[Karen Gray]

I use miles rather than kilometers, stones rather than lbs and pounds rather than dollars pmsl though I have actually not used a currency name in my writing. I didn't notice that til now. I have just said notes or coins... huh... och well

 

[Robinne Weiss]

If I know I'm pitching to a US agent, I use US English. Many of my NZ colleagues do, too, and the ex-pats among us are often asked for advice on, say, what Americans would call a wardrobe or a kumara. To which, of course, every one of us ex-pats has a different answer!

 

[Alistair Roberts]

Sweet potato is actually a slightly different variety of kumara, and I prefer the latter

 

[Robinne Weiss]

Ah, but there are multiple varieties of kumara/sweet potato...they are both Ipomoea batatas.

 

[James Marinero]

Yes I spelt it kilometres, not kilometers! The latter looks wrong and isn't the correct spelling in Australia or New Zealand. I suspect it might be American, even though they don't use it? Anyway, my question is which is best to use in a novel these days? If I was still in Australia there would be no question. Both countries went fully metric about 1973. However the UK is very piecemeal which seems rather silly. Most is metric, but not speed, which is still MPH (so few countries use that), and distance seems to be mostly miles but metric measurements are also use.

I'm in the middle of editing one of my novels, and into UK English which is in fact slightly different to Australian English. We have spoilt brats, but the UK only has spoiled brats! It's rather intriguing the differences we do have. Still, my novel is set in the 16th century, although that's kind of beside the point. What do publishers and readers prefer in the UK? I suspect the older ones want miles, where-as the younger ones might want kilometres for distance (nothing to do with speed)? Thoughts?

Jules Verne used leagues, albeit underwater (and I think he wrote after Napoleon had decreed km to be the universal measure). I think that miles is the best option - ignoring localisation. As others have said, the context is important. Sci fi novels regularly invent units of measure.

 

[Jason Byrne]

I use miles rather than kilometers, stones rather than lbs and pounds rather than dollars pmsl though I have actually not used a currency name in my writing. I didn't notice that til now. I have just said notes or coins... huh... och well

I'm among maybe 0.01% in the US that knows what a stone is, and can approximate a conversion into pounds, so I instead go with 'its heft was perhaps twice Alyn's weight, or as much as a cow, or upwards of six tons,' and occasionally 'about a hundred pounds.' But I use inches/feet/miles for distance.

My books are set in the real world, the presence of magic and dragons notwithstanding, and to make the combination less jarring, I intentionally never state the year, or the county in which the book is set, or the currency that is used, such as "Fifteen. For a donkey. Ridiculous." "It'll be sixty-five." That's what people really say, anyway. I never hear anyone say "ten dollars, please." Based on the local names and events, you can determine that it's the Holy Roman Empire, in 1115-19. I use a sort of proto-ducat as my currency, with equations for my own curiosity as to what it would equate in modern dollars.

 

[Jason Byrne]

If I know I'm pitching to a US agent, I use US English. Many of my NZ colleagues do, too, and the ex-pats among us are often asked for advice on, say, what Americans would call a wardrobe or a kumara. To which, of course, every one of us ex-pats has a different answer!

Closet and yam.

 

[Karen Gray]

I'm among maybe 0.01% in the US that knows what a stone is, and can approximate a conversion into pounds, so I instead go with 'its heft was perhaps twice Alyn's weight, or as much as a cow, or upwards of six tons,' and occasionally 'about a hundred pounds.' But I use inches/feet/miles for distance.

My books are set in the real world, the presence of magic and dragons notwithstanding, and to make the combination less jarring, I intentionally never state the year, or the county in which the book is set, or the currency that is used, such as "Fifteen. For a donkey. Ridiculous." "It'll be sixty-five." That's what people really say, anyway. I never hear anyone say "ten dollars, please." Based on the local names and events, you can determine that it's the Holy Roman Empire, in 1115-19. I use a sort of proto-ducat as my currency, with equations for my own curiosity as to what it would equate in modern dollars.

To be fair... if you are talking horses, donkeys, muels and general beasts of burden and livestock its usually guineas at the auctions... even nowadays. Dunno if that's global or just UK

 

[Jason Byrne]

To be fair... if you are talking horses, donkeys, muels and general beasts of burden and livestock its usually guineas at the auctions... even nowadays. Dunno if that's global or just UK

The Guinea saw use during the 17-19th centuries — five centuries after my books, which was just before the advent of the ducat, and I haven't been able to find much about what was used immediately beforehand.

Amazing, that you have guineas at horse auctions, pounds in stores and private transactions, and Euros in major chains, and having to keep track of all the rates of exchange...

 

[Alistair Roberts]

Guineas! Gees I'd forgotten about them, I'd say that is UK only. NZ and Aus, dropped that when we changed to dollars in 1967...... yikes, stop counting

 

[Jason Byrne]

Taking all critiques in favor of adopting the peso as universal currency standard!

 

[Meerkat]

I have to admit, I can't understand the English monetary system. Shillings, pence, farthings, pounds -- I don't know what's what.

 

[Jason Byrne]

When you think about it, Pennies, nickels, dimes, quarters, 50-cent pieces, dollars, five-dollar bills, ten, twenty, fifty, hundred, etc. is complicated as well, albeit more familiar and base-five.

I'll keep the Wiki article on "Pound sterling" handy any time I draw too near to shillings and pence.

 

[Jennifer Stone]

At least we don't use groats anymore lol

 

[Jason Byrne]

As currency? Well, if barleycorns can be units of distance...

 

[Jennifer Stone]

As currency? Well, if barleycorns can be units of distance...

A groat was used during the middle ages, made of silver and worth four pence

 

[Jason Byrne]

Yup. Just looked up on it — it's also grain kernels. There's several instances of that, like a poppeyseed being 1/12 of an inch.

 

[Robinne Weiss]

I find it amusing that my Kiwi kids, who are both mathematically inclined, can't wrap their heads around the number 25 as 1/4 of 100--no quarters in the currency here. How you measure things has a huge impact in how you interact with the world! Personally, my favourite measurement is the mano--used in the Panamanian countryside, it is a hand span, and the great thing about it is that you always have a ruler with you. (and once you know that your own mano is 8 1/2 inches or 21.5 cm, conversions are reasonably easy)

 

[Jason Byrne]

I find it amusing that my Kiwi kids, who are both mathematically inclined, can't wrap their heads around the number 25 as 1/4 of 100--no quarters in the currency here. How you measure things has a huge impact in how you interact with the world! Personally, my favourite measurement is the mano--used in the Panamanian countryside, it is a hand span, and the great thing about it is that you always have a ruler with you. (and once you know that your own mano is 8 1/2 inches or 21.5 cm, conversions are reasonably easy)

As long as you're not navigating the Atlantic or firing a mortar, it works!

 

[Robinne Weiss]

Fair enough! Thankfully, I don't generally do either of those things!

 

[Alistair Roberts]

I have to admit, I can't understand the English monetary system. Shillings, pence, farthings, pounds -- I don't know what's what.

No such thing as shillings anymore, it's just Pounds and pence, decimal system, with 100 pence per pound. No dimes or any other thing either.

 

[Jason Byrne]

Have to say — I like it; it's simple and straightforward. Though also tempting to round off to a greater degree. I would much rather call a pound and eighty-seven pence an even two pounds rather than count out the change, and the till would be way off by the end of the day, that way.

 

[Alistair Roberts]

So a dollar and eighty seven cents should be just two dollars? Well, in Oz and NZ, no one or two cent pieces, so everything is rounded (in cash only) to the nearest 5 cents

 

[Jason Byrne]

So a dollar and eighty seven cents should be just two dollars? Well, in Oz and NZ, no one or two cent pieces, so everything is rounded (in cash only) to the nearest 5 cents

If you have to count out eighty-seven pennies rather than three quarters, a dime, and two pennies it should!

Ah, there you go. I figured there was something similar in practice — it's just a matter of the particulars.