Joseph Campbell and new Chapter 1

[Jason Byrne]

Check out these images:

These represent the stages and archetypes of Joseph Campbell's "Hero's Journey," to which nearly all stories can be reduced, and which appears in the mythology of every culture — in every time period — of human history, from Gilgamesh to the Star Wars VII (which is awesome).

Sorry — the fine print is hard to see on the second image.

In general, it is kind of fun to look at these and see how your own story follows this structure.

In particular, to those of you who have read my first chapter and have returned feedback — @Karen Gray, @Nicole Wilson, @Bernard Stacey, @Marc Joan, and @Alistair Roberts — my wife brought up a good point last night: doesn't it seem to you that I skipped right over The Ordinary World, and started in the middle of the Call to Adventure?
"Something shakes up the situation, either from external pressures or from something rising up from deep within, so the hero must face the beginnings of change."

I'm considering inserting a chapter ahead of the opening I've kept for five years, to get a glimpse of The Ordinary World, of Alyn and County Bartholomew. What do you think?
"The hero, uneasy, uncomfortable or unaware, is introduced sympathetically so the audience can identify with the situation or dilemma. The hero is shown against a background of environment, heredity, and personal history. Some kind of polarity in the hero’s life is pulling in different directions and causing stress."


If you want some further reading, here's a link to get you started: The Hero's Journey

 

[Marc Joan]

Nice post. Deserves a longer answer than I have time for. Briefly, isn't it the case that many fine novels jump around the various stages, mixing up their order, with good effect? I think the test of a story is 'Does it work?' not 'Does it follow [insert paradigm of choice]'. Said paradigms are useful, for sure, but only are guides not masters?

 

[Nicole Wilson]

No, I love that you opened with the Call to adventure! It's an immediate hook that forces the reader to keep going. You can build sympathetic characters in the second scene. At least, that's the norm for many thrillers. Also, I'm a plot person, rather than a character person, so no plot = I won't keep reading. As is typical for thrillers.

 

[Bernard Stacey]

Wot she sed.

 

[Marc Joan]

Opening right in the middle of the action is a powerful way of grabbing attention. It's only right or wrong to the extent that it works with the rest of the story.

 

[Robinne Weiss]

Rules are only there so we can break 'em!

 

[Carol Rose]

I've seen all this before. It does work, but only if you make your opening interesting, and if it immediately puts the hero/heroine in the middle of the conflict. That's the secret, right there.

You don't want to bore your readers to tears by opening with a scene that you think sets the mood, but is actually nothing more than a ho-hum walk in the park while looking at butterflies or squirrels, or while your hero/heroine ruminates about his/her life. ZZZZZZZZZZZZ….

NEXT BOOK PLEASE!!

Seriously, you have no idea how many books I've stopped reading after the second or third paragraph because the heroine was brushing her hair in front of a mirror (the author's really poor way of describing the heroine's looks to the reader), or was taking a walk in the woods, thinking about her life, and this went on for the entire chapter!! Who cares??? Unless a dragon jumps out from behind a tree in the second paragraph, or Prince Charming comes walking out of that mirror and smacks her ass with that hairbrush, I'm onto the next book.

So yeah, follow this as a general guide, but you want the opening to pull your readers in, not make them start flipping pages to find where the good stuff begins.

And if you think about it, even Harry Potter opening where it did pulled readers right in with line one. It was JK's clever way of describing the Dursleys that made readers want to find out more, and then of course we had cats turning into witches and bearded wizards showing up on a perfectly ordinary city street. The formula worked because she made it work by writing that opening as something different - something that contrasted our world with one we didn't yet know - and that made it interesting.

 

[Carol Rose]

Remember that a story needs an arc, and your hero/heroine does, too. Without conflict, there is no story. Without change, there is no arc for your characters, and that's what readers want. They want to see that change - that growth. They want to experience it right along with the characters. This is true across all genres. It might be more subtle in certain ones, but it's there, regardless. The conflict changes your hero/heroine in some way. That's the nature of conflict. Without this in your story, you don't have one.

This amazing book is my story bible still. I don't write one word of a new story without first mapping out my hero's and heroine's GMC. Not only does this keep me on track so I don't start wandering around while writing the book, but it serves as a guide to make sure I'm showing readers the hero's and heroine's changes throughout the story.

http://www.debradixon.com/books/gmc.html

I met her in person when she same to speak at our RWA chapter meeting. She's not a romance writer. She's used this formula across genres in fiction and in writing screenplays. It goes well with the info above that @Jason Byrne posted.

 

[Karen Gray]

I say nope. Ordinary world can be boring, starting amid an action sequence is better. And I'd like to point out that we don't start out during an action sequence, we start off with him doing his ordinary world job, following his buddy around after the next target that they are to combat. The way you do it is a slow climb to the action mirroring the slow crawl toward their foe so I think it works as it is

 

[Carol Rose]

Guess I should clarify I have not read @Jason Byrne 's story so my comments aren't directed toward his question. They're general comments about the info he posted.

 

[Jason Byrne]

No, I love that you opened with the Call to adventure! It's an immediate hook that forces the reader to keep going. You can build sympathetic characters in the second scene. At least, that's the norm for many thrillers. Also, I'm a plot person, rather than a character person, so no plot = I won't keep reading. As is typical for thrillers.

Wot she sed.

Opening right in the middle of the action is a powerful way of grabbing attention. It's only right or wrong to the extent that it works with the rest of the story.

Okay — so you all did not feel as if you were missing something, that I had skipped over. That's reassuring.

 

[Jason Byrne]

Rules are only there so we can break 'em!

True... I would expound upon that, and say that rules are there for those that need them, and to be disregarded by those that are beyond the need. The question is always, "am I beyond the need for these rules?"
That is a question you are — thine own self — sometimes unqualified to answer.

 

[Jason Byrne]

I've seen all this before. It does work, but only if you make your opening interesting, and if it immediately puts the hero/heroine in the middle of the conflict. That's the secret, right there.

You don't want to bore your readers to tears by opening with a scene that you think sets the mood, but is actually nothing more than a ho-hum walk in the park while looking at butterflies or squirrels, or while your hero/heroine ruminates about his/her life. ZZZZZZZZZZZZ….

NEXT BOOK PLEASE!!

Seriously, you have no idea how many books I've stopped reading after the second or third paragraph because the heroine was brushing her hair in front of a mirror (the author's really poor way of describing the heroine's looks to the reader), or was taking a walk in the woods, thinking about her life, and this went on for the entire chapter!! Who cares??? Unless a dragon jumps out from behind a tree in the second paragraph, or Prince Charming comes walking out of that mirror and smacks her ass with that hairbrush, I'm onto the next book.

So yeah, follow this as a general guide, but you want the opening to pull your readers in, not make them start flipping pages to find where the good stuff begins.

And if you think about it, even Harry Potter opening where it did pulled readers right in with line one. It was JK's clever way of describing the Dursleys that made readers want to find out more, and then of course we had cats turning into witches and bearded wizards showing up on a perfectly ordinary city street. The formula worked because she made it work by writing that opening as something different - something that contrasted our world with one we didn't yet know - and that made it interesting.

And here, we come to it. I don't immediately imperil our valiant heroes.
I do open with them walking through the countryside (toward infinite peril), looking at the (dead gray) grass (because the butterflies and squirrels have fled from the infinite peril).

It probably takes a good 2,500 words before they arrive at the infinite peril, during which we learn who they are, why they're there, what they love, what they fear, etc.

 

[Jason Byrne]

Guess I should clarify I have not read @Jason Byrne 's story so my comments aren't directed toward his question. They're general comments about the info he posted.

I promise I'm not arguing with anyone. I just want to gauge your opinions, and any change in them that occurs given successive sets of new data, to determine where the issues lies, if any.

And I know you haven't read the chapter, Carol, but I still highly value your opinion and cautions — and you as well, Marc, Nicole, Bernard, and Karen, for your affirmation. Thank you very much, for your expertise, support, and opinion.

 

[Carol Rose]

And here, we come to it. I don't immediately imperil our valiant heroes.
I do open with them walking through the countryside (toward infinite peril), looking at the (dead gray) grass (because the butterflies and squirrels have fled from the infinite peril).

It probably takes a good 2,500 words before they arrive at the infinite peril, during which we learn who they are, why they're there, what they love, what they fear, etc.

Like I said, I haven't read it. And dropping someone the reader doesn't know straight into a battle scene isn't a great idea anyway because (a) readers don't know who they are; (b) readers don't know why they should care who they are; ( C ) readers don't know why they should care that these people are in a battle.

It doesn't have to be a battle or mortal danger. By "in the middle of the conflict" I mean something similar to my HP reference above. Harry's conflict may have begun when he was a baby and Voldemort tried to kill him, but that part of the story is treated more as a prologue. It's brief, and doesn't give us all the details. We don't really find out the true measure of all that night meant to everyone until the final book. "Always…"

Instead, she starts the meat of the story with Harry getting his Hogwarts letter and finding out who and what he is. His story may have begun when he was a baby, but the conflict for him didn't take shape until he turned 11.

 

[Carol Rose]

I promise I'm not arguing with anyone. I just want to gauge your opinions, and any change in them that occurs given successive sets of new data, to determine where the issues lies, if any.

And I know you haven't read the chapter, Carol, but I still highly value your opinion and cautions — and you as well, Marc, Nicole, and Bernard, for your affirmation. Thank you very much, for your expertise, support, and opinion.

I know you're not arguing. My comments were based on the info you provided, nothing more. I hope I'm not coming across as arguing either.

 

[Jason Byrne]

I say nope. Ordinary world can be boring, starting amid an action sequence is better. And I'd like to point out that we don't start out during an action sequence, we start off with him doing his ordinary world job, following his buddy around after the next target that they are to combat. The way you do it is a slow climb to the action mirroring the slow crawl toward their foe so I think it works as it is

Okay, so you mean to say I shouldn't start with a thesis discourse on "The Nature and Habits of Knights Specializing in Combating Magical Infestation in and about County Bartholomew."

Now here's the last piece of information that made me uneasy, and I'm glad you touched on this Karen — we don't open with his ordinary world, doing his ordinary job — we start with the two of them on the brink of engaging in the single most dangerous and terrifying assignment with which he has ever been involved.

 

[Jason Byrne]

Like I said, I haven't read it. And dropping someone the reader doesn't know straight into a battle scene isn't a great idea anyway because (a) readers don't know who they are; (b) readers don't know why they should care who they are; ( C ) readers don't know why they should care that these people are in a battle.

It doesn't have to be a battle or mortal danger. By "in the middle of the conflict" I mean something similar to my HP reference above. Harry's conflict may have begun when he was a baby and Voldemort tried to kill him, but that part of the story is treated more as a prologue. It's brief, and doesn't give us all the details. We don't really find out the true measure of all that night meant to everyone until the final book. "Always…"

Instead, she starts the meat of the story with Harry getting his Hogwarts letter and finding out who and what he is. His story may have begun when he was a baby, but the conflict for him didn't take shape until he turned 11.

I know you're not arguing. My comments were based on the info you provided, nothing more. I hope I'm not coming across as arguing either.

No, your observations are spot-on. I think I more clearly understand your advice, as well.

Oh — and I'm taking a look at the Debra Dixon article, now, Carol!

 

[Carol Rose]

No, your observations are spot-on. I think I more clearly understand your advice, as well.

Yeah! I helped someone today! It's a good day then.

 

[Jason Byrne]

All of this notwithstanding, I've been banging my head against this opening chapter for five years, trying to bring it up the par with the rest of the series, or failing that even up to par with the rest of book 1.

Karen, even you said that you agreed the first two or three chapters weren't as good as the book became "once I hit my stride," round-about chapter three or four.

I let my wife read the opening page of book 1, then book 2, then book 3, and whereas she has steadfastly maintained that the first chapter of book 1 does serious injustice to the rest of the series, when it came to the openings of books 2 and 3 she was spellbound. At this point I'm clawing at the thing, trying to figure out where the problem is.

 

[Chase Gamwell]

"The Nature and Habits of Knights Specializing in Combating Magical Infestation in and about County Bartholomew."

I sense some short fiction in your future...

 

[Chase Gamwell]

All of this notwithstanding, I've been banging my head against this opening chapter for five years, trying to bring it up the par with the rest of the series, or failing that even up to par with the rest of book 1.

Karen, even you said that you agreed the first two or three chapters weren't as good as the book became "once I hit my stride," round-about chapter three or four.

I let my wife read the opening page of books 1, then 2, then 3, and whereas she has steadfastly maintained that the first chapter of book 1 does serious injustice to the rest of the series, when it came to the openings of books 2 and 3 she was spellbound. At this point I'm clawing at the thing, trying to figure out where the problem is.

I feel your pain on that sir. If it's any consolation, I'm struggling with the same thing, but I'm not sure if changing the opening of my story will make it any better either. I haven't read your opening chapter either, but it sounds like there's some good substance there. Maybe massage it like Kobe beef to bring out the flavor?

 

[Jason Byrne]

I sense some short fiction in your future...

SPIN-OFF...

In all seriousness, I have vowed that I wouldn't keep churning out sequels after the single overarching story of the series was completely resolved. They are, after all, volumes of The Vision of Arcadia.

But the temptation to do little spin-off stand-alone shorts is so tempting...

 

[Chase Gamwell]

SPIN-OFF...

In all seriousness, I have vowed that I wouldn't keep churning out sequels after the single overarching story of the series was completely resolved. They are, after all, volumes of The Vision of Arcadia.

But the temptation to do little spin-off stand-alone shorts is so tempting...

Doing something like that may grant some clarity about the beginning of your novel that has otherwise alluded you, maybe?

 

[Jason Byrne]

Doing something like that may grant some clarity about the beginning of your novel that has otherwise alluded you, maybe?

Huh. That's an interesting idea. Even if it's not for public view and just a sort of world-building exercise...

 

[Carol Rose]

Don't know if this will help anyone… but here's the story of a book titled His Majesty's Secret. It was published by Siren-BookStrand under my Carolyn Rosewood pen name and that's the book I worked on literally for 20 freaking years, so it has a special place in my heart.

It started off with an entirely different title. The hero and heroine even had different names. I was inspired by the first book in Stephen King's Dark Tower series with respect to setting a story in an alternate universe. Around the same time, we bought our daughter the VHS version (shows you how old this story is!!!) of Disney's Beauty and the Beast. She was only 2, and the beast kind of scared her, but I was captivated by the end of that movie when the beast turns back into the prince. Those two events together sparked that story in my head, and off it went.

Over the years, it gained and lost characters, grew a thousand plot points, and wandered off into the weird and bizarre. It never left me. I was haunted by it, the way I'm still haunted by my stories. But this one was relentless. It took me 8 years to write it down. Finally. Took me two weeks to finish, and the book was roughly 40K at the end of it. The published version is over 70K.

I wrote it on an electronic typewriter because I didn't even have a computer yet, and promptly started sending off queries without one clue what I was doing. Over 150 rejections later, I worked on it a bit, but I really had no clue what I was doing. Once I got a computer I floundered around a bit more for the next 10 years or so, finally rewriting the story with a new title, and new names for the hero and heroine. I found Litopia, and the first chapter of an early version of the story (with a different title) was the first piece I put in the Houses for critique.

Here's the thing. The story was set in an alternate universe, but I had my heroine traveling there at the beginning of the story. It sounds like it's the right place to start it, doesn't it? Instant conflict! But it wasn't the right place to start it. I tried I don't even know how many alternate beginnings for this, but none of them were right. Too long, too short, not enough info, too much info, too boring, too unbelievable, etc., etc., etc. No one liked any of them, and I didn't either, to be honest.

Finally, I had an epiphany (there's a tornado involved, but that's another story) and decided instead of starting it in our world, I'd set the whole thing in the other world. Period. Forget the crossing over stuff. The heroine was now a woman fleeing her kingdom in this other universe to travel to the nearest portal to cross into our world, because she felt it was the only way out of her dilemma. She was willing to leave her own universe to escape. That's how desperate she was.

Once she crossed the border into the other kingdom where the nearest portal was (and because she couldn't try to go through one in her kingdom as she was being watched) she ran smack dab into ruthless border guards with more than guarding borders on their mind. While she was in a tree doing a fair job of defending herself against the men, along came the hero and his tiny band of supporters. He was fleeing his own castle, where his brother had just overthrown him based on a huge lie and a suspicious set of circumstances, and declared himself king. He also put an immediate price on the hero's head.

The hero rescued the heroine, found out just enough about why she was in his kingdom and running to believe she was a spy, and decided basically to kidnap her on his way to a place where his brother's reach couldn't touch him. He decided if she was telling the truth, she'd have to wait to sort it out until he was sure she couldn't hurt him.

Of course on their journey they learn the real reason each of them is fleeing, they realize both of them are telling the truth, and they have to dodge bad guys who would love to turn in the outcast king, and turn in a woman from another kingdom who is wanted for a murder she didn't commit. Oh, and the murdered person was her husband, and the man she is supposed to be marrying is the one who actually killed him, but she doesn't find that out for a while.

In the meantime, the true king (our hero) seeks help from a neighboring kingdom and his brother's lie is exposed, but he still has to amass an army and return to the castle to fight for his crown. Oh, and he has to convince his own people that the heroine shouldn't be sent back to her kingdom because she's innocent and was framed by a man who wanted her family's money and power. He would get both by marrying her.

SO… once I decided to start the story there, in the woods with them both fleeing a life and death situation, but from opposite sides of the crown, so to speak, the story flowed in a way it never had before.

My point? Sometimes you have to play with worlds and battles and facts and motive before the right place to start finally hits you. And it will. When you find it, you will know it. It will all make sense and the rest of the story will fall into place. But you have to be willing to let go of what you think is the perfect beginning. In my case, I had to let go of what I thought was the perfect conflict. Obviously it was not, but for 20 years I thought it was, and couldn't see past that rigid spot.

Think outside the box if you're struggling with a story beginning. Let your mind wander and don't discount any possibility.

 

[Karen Gray]

Okay, so you mean to say I shouldn't start with a thesis discourse on "The Nature and Habits of Knights Specializing in Combating Magical Infestation in and about County Bartholomew."

Now here's the last piece of information that made me uneasy, and I'm glad you touched on this Karen — we don't open with his ordinary world, doing his ordinary job — we start with the two of them on the brink of engaging in the single most dangerous and terrifying assignment with which he has ever been involved.

For King and Country used to start with Morag waking up and feeding the horses. I changed it so that it now starts with her birth and her mother on the run, which do you think is better?

Your beginning is better the way you have it. If anything I'd say have the action sooner.

 

[Nicole Wilson]

For King and Country used to start with Morag waking up and feeding the horses. I changed it so that it now starts with her birth and her mother on the run, which do you think is better?

Your beginning is better the way you have it. If anything I'd say have the action sooner.

I've read the beginning of yours and I definitely like the on-the-run birth better.

 

[Jason Byrne]

Don't know if this will help anyone… but here's the story of a book titled His Majesty's Secret. It was written under my Carolyn Rosewood pen name and that's the book I worked on literally for 20 freaking years, so it has a special place in my heart.

It started off with an entirely different title. The hero and heroine even had different names. I was inspired by the first book in Stephen King's Dark Tower series with respect to setting a story in an alternate universe. Around the same time, we bought our daughter the VHS version (shows you how old this story is!!!) of Disney's Beauty and the Beast. She was only 2, and the beast kind of scared her, but I was captivated by the end of that movie when the beast turns back into the prince. Those two events together sparked that story in my head, and off it went.

Over the years, it gained and lost characters, grew a thousand plot points, and wandered off into the weird and bizarre. It never left me. I was haunted by it, the way I'm still haunted by my stories. But this one was relentless. It took me 8 years to write it down. Finally. Took me two weeks to finish, and the book was roughly 40K at the end of it. I wrote it on an electronic typewriter because I didn't even have a computer yet, and promptly started sending off queries without one clue what I was doing.

Over 150 rejections later, I worked on it a bit, but I really had no clue what I was doing. Once I got a computer I floundered around a bit more for the next 10 years or so, finally rewriting the story with a new title, and new names for the hero and heroine. I found Litopia, and the first chapter of an early version of the story (with a different title) was the first piece I put in the Houses for critique.

Here's the thing. The story was set in an alternate universe, but I had my heroine traveling there at the beginning of the story. It sounds like it's the right place to start it, doesn't it? Instant conflict! But it wasn't the right place to start it. I tried I don't even know how many alternate beginnings for this, but none of them were right. Too long, too short, not enough info, too much info, too boring, too unbelievable, etc., etc., etc. No one liked any of them, and I didn't either, to be honest.

Finally, I had an epiphany (there's a tornado involved, but that's another story) and decided instead of starting it in our world, I'd set the whole thing in the other world. Period. Forget the crossing over stuff. The heroine was now a woman fleeing her kingdom in this other universe to travel to the nearest portal to cross into our world, because she felt it was the only way out of her dilemma. She was willing to leave her own universe to escape. That's how desperate she was.

Once she crossed the border into the other kingdom where the nearest portal was (and because she couldn't try to go through one in her kingdom as she was being watched) she ran smack dab into ruthless border guards with more than guarding borders on their mind. While she was in a tree doing a fair job of defending herself against the men, along came the hero and his tiny band of supporters. He was fleeing his own castle, where his brother had just overthrown him based on a huge lie and a suspicious set of circumstances, and declared himself king. He also put an immediate price on the hero's head.

The hero rescued the heroine, found out just enough about why she was in his kingdom and running to believe she was a spy, and decided basically to kidnap her on his way to a place where his brother's reach couldn't touch him. He decided if she was telling the truth, she'd have to wait to sort it out until he was sure she couldn't hurt him.

Of course on their journey they learn the real reason each of them is fleeing, they realize both of them are telling the truth, and they have to dodge bad guys who would love to turn in the outcast king, and turn in a woman from another kingdom who is wanted for a murder she didn't commit. Oh, and the murdered person was her husband, and the man she is supposed to be marrying is the one who actually killed him, but she doesn't find that out for a while.

In the meantime, the true king (our hero) seeks help from a neighboring kingdom and his brother's lie is exposed, but he still has to amass an army and return to the castle to fight for his crown. Oh, and he has to convince his own people that the heroine shouldn't be sent back to her kingdom because she's innocent and was framed by a man who wanted her family's money and power. He would get both by marrying her.

SO… once I decided to start the story there, in the woods with them both fleeing a life and death situation, but from opposite sides of the crown, so to speak, the story flowed in a way it never had before.

My point? Sometimes you have to play with worlds and battles and facts and motive before the right place to start finally hits you. And it will. When you find it, you will know it. It will all make sense and the rest of the story will fall into place. But you have to be willing to let go of what you think is the perfect beginning. In my case, I had to let go of what I thought was the perfect conflict. Obviously it was not, but for 20 years I thought it was, and couldn't see past that rigid spot.

Think outside the box if you're struggling with a story beginning. Let your mind wander and don't discount any possibility.

Wow. I'm going on six years, and suddenly that doesn't seem so long. I'll keep thinking on it, and wait for that flash of perfect understanding. You're absolutely right about that part — that's the reason I don't force the writing if it's not coming — every time I've waited an amazing idea came along that I would have skipped over and missed entirely. Better it take twenty years to publish than throw something out there that doesn't work as well as it could. And congratulations on keeping your patience, and for finally prevailing!

 

[Carol Rose]

Wow. I'm going on six years, and suddenly that doesn't seem so long. I'll keep thinking on it, and wait for that flash of perfect understanding. You're absolutely right about that part — that's the reason I don't force the writing if it's not coming — every time I've waited an amazing idea came along that I would have skipped over and missed entirely. Better it take twenty years to publish than throw something out there that doesn't work as well as it could. And congratulations on keeping your patience, and for finally prevailing!

Thanks!