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Forms of address

  • Thread starter Thread starter Jason Byrne
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Jason Byrne said:
Meant out of respect — to ask a question is to expect a reply; to pose a question is to create one with request but without expectation of reply.

Archaic, but I've never addressed a duke, before... It would reflect poorly on my country, to get it wrong....

Or maybe I just take royalty too seriously. I told you I should have been born in a different time. I still feel like royalty is just plain better than everyone else, by dint of title.
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Here we are all equally behaved towards each other. Equally respected. Regardless of 'commoner' or king. That's the impression that the Royals are currently trying to show outwardly. How we live might be different. It's all a good show.
 
Emurelda said:
Oooh...so what is it?
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Oh — forgot to answer, sorry — for now, I'm going with your presumption that they need to be addressed individually, or else there might be something like, "noble lords of the High Council" or other such that I uncover.
And from what I've found transfer of title is instantaneous, and I'm going with that until I find out otherwise: once the King says "you're in," you can start calling yourself that, I think...
 
Emurelda said:
Here we are all equally behaved towards each other. Equally respected. Regardless of 'commoner' or king. That's the impression that the Royals are currently trying to show outwardly. How we live might be different. It's all a good show.
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I see... Yeah, having no exposure to it, save for research in which I immerse myself about the twelfth century, I'm bound to be behind the times. And I've spent all day writing about a much more dangerous royalty, whom you wouldn't want to address wrong, and that probably colored my perspective. Times have sure changed.

Emurelda said:
Well i could always be wrong. And you could always tweet again.
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If I don't hear anything for a long while, I will, for sure.
 
Yes - Your Graces (for the non-Royals: William, for example, would be Your Royal Highness). An unlikely event, I should imagine. And you must be careful that there aren't a group of archbishops lurking nearby or else it'll get confusing.
 
Bernard Stacey said:
Yes - Your Graces (for the non-Royals: William, for example, would be Your Royal Highness). An unlikely event, I should imagine. And you must be careful that there aren't a group of archbishops lurking nearby or else it'll get confusing.
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Your Graces would be acceptable, presuming a gathered High Council comprising archdukes and dukes?
 
Jason Byrne said:
Your Graces would be acceptable, presuming a gathered High Council comprising archdukes and dukes?
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Hmm... Don't know about archdukes. We don't have any here in England. It's a rather European title and outranks a mere duke and I'm not even sure it still exists except as one of those endless lists of titles conferred on royalty, in which case he'd be 'Your Highness'.
 
This is only tangential to the subject, but when we did our citizenship ceremony here, we had to pledge to "defend Her Royal Majesty the Queen and all her heirs." One of the other people doing the ceremony with us pronounced "heirs" as "hairs." It was all I could do to keep from bursting out with laughter...but it's good to know that at least one New Zealander is looking after the royal hairdoo...
 
Jason Byrne said:
Most noble Litopians from across the Pond —

Does anyone know what would be the proper form of oral address of a group of dukes? "Your Graces?"

And supposing a noble were stripped of their title, lands, and rights — and then these were returned to the noble once more by royal decree — is there a special form of address that that person would be due before their official coronation ceremony? Like "The Provisional-So and So?"
Or does the same concept uninterruption for the monarch of "the King is dead; God save the King" apply to all noble titles, and the title applies before any ceremony, at the moment of royal decree?

Those are a couple of those questions that seem to be difficult to word properly in order for Google to yield the correct answer. If anyone knows, I would be overjoyed!
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You could take your cues from "Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure". Just a thought.
Note: I replied to an earlier post and once it posted, I saw @1408 's post.
 
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Jason Byrne said:
I just got "The Manual of Rank and Nobility, Or Key to the Peerage: Containing the Origin and History of All the Various Titles; Orders, and Dignities, Hereditary Honours, Peculiar Privileges, Heraldic Distinctions, Rights of Inheritance, Degrees of Precedence, Court Etiquette, &c., &c. of the British Nobility: with the Origin and History of the Royal Titles, Prerogatives, Ceremonies, Great Officers of State and of His Majest's Household, &c., &c. Collected from the Best Authorities" by Saunders and Otley, (C) 1832, for Google Play Books. Should be an interesting read!
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Wow! What a title!
 
Bernard Stacey said:
Hmm... Don't know about archdukes. We don't have any here in England. It's a rather European title and outranks a mere duke and I'm not even sure it still exists except as one of those endless lists of titles conferred on royalty, in which case he'd be 'Your Highness'.
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The form of address for archduke is the same as the style of duke, so I'll call that "good enough," and go with Your Graces.
I can't wait to find and agent and publish three books so y'all can see what I'm talking about!!
 
BUMP!

I got two answers on Quora — one regarding the current culture, and mirroring your sentiments @Emurelda:
Debretts will have the formal answer, along with the more useful means of address for a group of Martians.
I know a few knights and a couple of barons and they all respond to their first names. While I'm both a royalist and a supporter of the honours system (despite far too many execrable choices) the people I know are still the same people.
Their title allows them to wear funny clothes and get into the best club in London. But we live in a democracy and I'll dish out respect only to those who I think deserve it - and that doesn't include being born to the right parents.
If you feel you have to be nice to them then stick to "My Lords" but if you find yourself in such surroundings there'll be a handy flunky who will know the form. But I bet they'd respond to "Oi, you lot...."

The other confirmed what I thought, as to formal protocol:
When addressing only Dukes, then "Your Graces" is appropriate.
If the mix includes Dukes plus Marquesses or below, then "My Lords" is correct.
Life gets more complex if any of the Dukes are also either in Holy Orders, or the armed forces.


So I'm diving into http://www.debretts.com/forms-address which the first chap mentioned, and it is INSANE, the amount of protocol that exists, that I'll need to master to portray a true noble court convincingly. No, I'm not going to make it up. I've gone to six years of effort to include every possible element of historical accuracy, because truth is almost always stranger (and more convincing) than fiction.

For example, did you know for a public speech you have to begin with a preamble, beginning "may it please Your Majesty..." if the monarch is present, then a list of all nobles present kept as brief as possible without appearing to slight anyone, then "pray silence for..." and title given for the first speaker, and the title given for each speaker to follow thereafter?

Then there's protocol for noble seating plans at events, how to do a proper place card, a proper toast...

This is amazing. I can't wait to try to pull off a convincing portraying of feudal court, with these in-hand!
 
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