News FALL OUT, a new series on Amazon. Impeccable.

[Pamela Jo]

Continuing the trend of mining gaming for new story instead of books. The Last of US, Witcher, More I cant remember right now. I cant believe Guardian gives this series full marks, they nit pick everything.

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-...fallout-review-an-absolute-blast-of-a-tv-show

 

[Pamela Jo]

Continuing the trend of mining gaming for new story instead of books. The Last of US, Witcher, More I cant remember right now. I cant believe Guardian gives this series full marks, they nit pick everything.

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-...fallout-review-an-absolute-blast-of-a-tv-show

OK. DAYum. This IS impeccable. Just saw the first episode. As my son says, "Lick the screen good." Quote: "Is this an Amish production of 'Count of Monte Christo' or just the weirdest circle jerk I've ever been invited to?" By the producers of West World.

 

[LJ Beck]

I don't know what to make of it. We watched two eps and I'm still scratching my head. Sure it's interesting, in an observational kind of way, and it's got some really weird shit in it, and the extreme violence/comedic tone is along the lines of Utopia (which I loved, despite the extreme violence.) But I don't know... my biggest problem is I don't care about anyone. I find the MC super annoying. I'm not invested in the guy who takes over the robot body. (I liked his friend better, the one with the foot that got eaten.) And I find the 50's music annoying too.

Also, I have logic questions. In ep 1 - they invited the surface dwellers in, right? How did they not know they they were surface dwellers, and how did they get in without anyone knowing the outside door was opened? Plus, when the dad was given a choice to save his kid or the others, he saves his kid, but the others still survive. So what was all that about? Why? And the Ghoul. 200 years later. Same guy. What were those bags attached to the grave? I do love that actor though. He brings a chill to that trope-y role.

Then I remind myself it's game-fi and to just go with it. Doesn't have to make sense, I guess?

Anyway, I'll stick with it. I want to see what they do with it, how the plot evolves, and how these chars intersect. I want to like it! Hopefully I'll get more into it.

 

[Pamela Jo]

I don't know what to make of it. We watched two eps and I'm still scratching my head. Sure it's interesting, in an observational kind of way, and it's got some really weird shit in it, and the extreme violence/comedic tone is along the lines of Utopia (which I loved, despite the extreme violence.) But I don't know... my biggest problem is I don't care about anyone. I find the MC super annoying. I'm not invested in the guy who takes over the robot body. (I liked his friend better, the one with the foot that got eaten.) And I find the 50's music annoying too.

Also, I have logic questions. In ep 1 - they invited the surface dwellers in, right? How did they not know they they were surface dwellers, and how did they get in without anyone knowing the outside door was opened? Plus, when the dad was given a choice to save his kid or the others, he saves his kid, but the others still survive. So what was all that about? Why? And the Ghoul. 200 years later. Same guy. What were those bags attached to the grave? I do love that actor though. He brings a chill to that trope-y role.

Then I remind myself it's game-fi and to just go with it. Doesn't have to make sense, I guess?

Anyway, I'll stick with it. I want to see what they do with it, how the plot evolves, and how these chars intersect. I want to like it! Hopefully I'll get more into it.

Those are the info feeds that I think have become standard. You are supposed to have questions. This is exactly what I was told I needed to do in my debut novel.

I think this is the new normal. Maybe everything is written now with the anticipation that it might become a series. To keep a series going you have to have that slow feed and lots of questions to carry to the next episode and all the loose ends tied in the finale.

Having watched to the end I can say all is revealed and I think in a satisfying way. Making the MC Max unlikeable was definitely deliberate and part of the character arc.

The story made a lot more sense in the end than any of the seasons of West World. Not to mention Firefly.

 

[TimRees]

I don't know what to make of it. We watched two eps and I'm still scratching my head. Sure it's interesting, in an observational kind of way, and it's got some really weird shit in it, and the extreme violence/comedic tone is along the lines of Utopia (which I loved, despite the extreme violence.) But I don't know... my biggest problem is I don't care about anyone. I find the MC super annoying. I'm not invested in the guy who takes over the robot body. (I liked his friend better, the one with the foot that got eaten.) And I find the 50's music annoying too.

Also, I have logic questions. In ep 1 - they invited the surface dwellers in, right? How did they not know they they were surface dwellers, and how did they get in without anyone knowing the outside door was opened? Plus, when the dad was given a choice to save his kid or the others, he saves his kid, but the others still survive. So what was all that about? Why? And the Ghoul. 200 years later. Same guy. What were those bags attached to the grave? I do love that actor though. He brings a chill to that trope-y role.

Then I remind myself it's game-fi and to just go with it. Doesn't have to make sense, I guess?

Anyway, I'll stick with it. I want to see what they do with it, how the plot evolves, and how these chars intersect. I want to like it! Hopefully I'll get more into it.

I echo your thoughts, LJ. At the moment I think I'll watch an episode if I have time, but ... Can't see myself binging!!

 

[LJ Beck]

Those are the info feeds that I think have become standard. You are supposed to have questions. This is exactly what I was told I needed to do in my debut novel.

I think this is the new normal. Maybe everything is written now with the anticipation that it might become a series. To keep a series going you have to have that slow feed and lots of questions to carry to the next episode and all the loose ends tied in the finale.

Having watched to the end I can say all is revealed and I think in a satisfying way. Making the MC Max unlikeable was definitely deliberate and part of the character arc.

The story made a lot more sense in the end than any of the seasons of West World. Not to mention Firefly.

It's tricky though, right? There are different kinds of questions. The kind that you're happy to wait for the answers to, and the kind that seem like they just didn't care about logic and said to hell with it for the sake of drama. And here's the thing, even if it seems like the second kind, but it's really the first kind, it's taken the reader (or viewer) out of the story to say, nah, I don't buy it. That's bad.

BUT I do think that you can get around that by having one of the characters comment on the illogical nature of it. Like, "How did they get in without us knowing about it? The doors are sealed and alarmed." And then no one knows, and there's no answer to that question. What that does is address the question the reader's asking, by showing someone in the story is also confused by this. This says to the reader/viewer, this is an intentional mystery, and will be addressed later. It's like a promise. Instead of taking me out, it pulls me in even further.

But they didn't do that. Or else I wasn't paying attention.

The thing about having a deliberately unlikable MC in the beginning is that you take the risk of not getting investment at the beginning of the story. For me, this is really critical to my enjoyment of the story. I may not stick with it long enough to see them change. But you can have a mostly unlikely char with a few key traits to pin that engagement on. But to me, she has none. She loves her dad, I guess, but their relationship kinda creeped me out. It was shown she has skills, but she's not using them. She acts dumb. Grrr.

I did enjoy West World, although it got pretty out-there at the end. BUT I was already invested in the characters from very early on.

Firefly... um um um. Loved them. All 'o them. Was so sad it ended. Sure shit didn't make sense, but I didn't care and I almost always care about stuff being logical. I hated saying good bye to them. I still miss them.

 

[Pamela Jo]

BUT I do think that you can get around that by having one of the characters comment on the illogical nature of it. Like, "How did they get in without us knowing about it? The doors are sealed and alarmed." And then no one knows, and there's no answer to that question. What that does is address the question the reader's asking, by showing someone in the story is also confused by this. This says to the reader/viewer, this is an intentional mystery, and will be addressed later. It's like a promise. Instead of taking me out, it pulls me in even further.

The next episode I think this happens very quickly. And they answer it with the wrist thing which was called by a name I didnt recognise which threw me off for about 2 more episodes when I got it with more backstory.

I would call this method the Funhouse Effect. The audience is kept in the dark with such a sense of peril that they keep going just to find their way out and meanwhile are entertained by trying to figure out clues. The potential audience here is definitely Gonzo. All the Boy and his Dog references, and sly trope Easter eggs. I would say it was definitely style more than story that kept me hooked. I would have to say that was true with Umbrella Academy as well.

The thing about having a deliberately unlikable MC in the beginning is that you take the risk of not getting investment at the beginning of the story. For me, this is really critical to my enjoyment of the story. I may not stick with it long enough to see them change. But you can have a mostly unlikely char with a few key traits to pin that engagement on. But to me, she has none. She loves her dad, I guess, but their relationship kinda creeped me out. It was shown she has skills, but she's not using them. She acts dumb. Grrr.

The clue there is the Nebraska background which to Californians means naivety. She's "Dorothy" of Wizard of Oz. Or Alice in Wonderland or every dumb blonde in old SF that exists to have the science explained to the reader. I think the hook there is that reality check that comes when we leave home and find out how dangerous and duplicitous the world is. I think there is a really cultural American WINK here that may not come thru internationally.

WestWorld interested me until "Rachel" got violently raped. Then it lost me. There was such a clear link to colonialism and slavery that it gave me "ick." I came back a few episodes later and skipped around searching for, well the plot, I guess. There was so much buildup that when I realised it was just a search for this diagram it lost me completely.

Firefly -the characters. OMG yes. Plus the episodes were self-contained and very clever. Old style television. Not the current series style where you are expected to binge. The one thing that really bothered me about Firefly were the American West aspect. That there was no explanation of that really bothered me. Everytime they were on a planet and it was something out of a Western I cringed. But when I watched West World my brain connected this. If the robots from West World led a revolution and that was the war we see in the first episode then the horses are robots and all the references are cultural to the robots.

 

[LJ Beck]

I would call this method the Funhouse Effect.

Haha!!! That's great.

The clue there is the Nebraska background which to Californians means naivety. She's "Dorothy" of Wizard of Oz. Or Alice in Wonderland or every dumb blonde in old SF that exists to have the science explained to the reader. I think the hook there is that reality check that comes when we leave home and find out how dangerous and duplicitous the world is. I think there is a really cultural American WINK here that may not come thru internationally.

Ah.... right. I have to remember one of the listed genres is satire. I'm not into satire. It feels to me like a poor rehash, poking fun at things that didn't need poking. I don't need to see more dumb blond shite, you know? But I do love the concept of Dorothy or Alice. I'll try to keep that in mind when I continue watching, I think it'll help.

WestWorld interested me until "Rachel" got violently raped. Then it lost me. There was such a clear link to colonialism and slavery that it gave me "ick." I came back a few episodes later and skipped around searching for, well the plot, I guess. There was so much buildup that when I realised it was just a search for this diagram it lost me completely.

Yeah, they lost me around then too. It became really jump-the-shark-cringe. I don't even remember the story really once it got all weird and convoluted.

Firefly -the characters. OMG yes. Plus the episodes were self-contained and very clever. Old style television. Not the current series style where you are expected to binge. The one thing that really bothered me about Firefly were the American West aspect. That there was no explanation of that really bothered me. Everytime they were on a planet and it was something out of a Western I cringed. But when I watched West World my brain connected this. If the robots from West World led a revolution and that was the war we see in the first episode then the horses are robots and all the references are cultural to the robots.

Yeah, I don't get the Western thing. I know it's a whole genre to be studied and is quite in depth, but it's not for me. I pretty much have a rule that I don't watch Westerns or War movies/TV. Firefly was an exception. Because I loved the chars. That's so funny about connecting the West World robots to Firefly. I did always wonder where they got the horses. I guess the rent-a-horse shop next to the docking bay??