Question: Beat sheets for trilogies

[izi 出久]

Hi all!

Finally reading Save the Cat! Writes A Novel and it is life-changing. At least, it's book-changing.
Good news: I have the beats, either planned or written.
Unsurprising news: Many of them are in the wrong place. No worries. I am committed to a month of Sundays of editing.

But I have questions that I'm hoping some of you geniuses can answer.

1. For a trilogy, do I spread the beat sheet over all three books?
2. Pedra leaving Karatus with Mika is breaking into Act 2. If people were to say yes to the first question, then my follow-up question is: Should I end the first book at the Debate or Breaking Into Act 2? My gut says the second because it gives the reader a keen sense of what is to come in the trilogy.

TIA

 

[RK Wallis]

It's an awesome book, hey?

One upon a time, I loved trilogies. I had to read every one. These days, I'll read them if they pull me through, but if an author hasn't excited me enough, I won't read on. The Lunar Chronicles by Marissa Meyer is a trilogy that pulled me through to the 4th book.

I've been stewing over what it was that worked. So, over all 4 books, she had an overarching plot, then each individual book had its own plot.

So if you're only doing 3 books, personally, I'd make the midpoint of book 2 the midpoint for the overarching plot and then work out your beats from there. Does that make sense?

P.S. That book uses examples from Cinder (The Lunar Chronicles) throughout it.

 

[Pamela Jo]

The individual books count more. If you don't sell it-there there is no book 2. Pack your cookies in the first.

 

[Barbara]

I don't really know but this is what I'd try. No idea if it would work:

Have two:

a beat sheet for the entire series (the series plot)
and
a beat sheet for each book.

Don't know. It may not work. Then again it may.

 

[Rich.]

a beat sheet for the entire series (the series plot)
and
a beat sheet for each book

Typically this is how you would do it. And you can go further and apply the general idea of the beat sheet to each chapter, to each scene if you want to.

 

[Dorm Ant]

I don't really know but this is what I'd try. No idea if it would work:

Have two:

a beat sheet for the entire series (the series plot)
and
a beat sheet for each book.

Don't know. It may not work. Then again it may.

This is what I've done. An absent family member is agonised about in 1-2 short conversations in book 1, who makes an appearance in book 3 and does have a big role... Though it's not enough of a plot point in book 1 to mention him in the synopsis. His importance only becomes clear retrospectively.

 

[Hannah F]

I like trilogies where each book has its own denouement, but there's at least one thing left hanging/question needing answered that will pull me into the second book, but only IF I was hooked by the first. Fantasy trilogies that have got me rushing to buy the next instalment in recent years are Katherine Arden's Winternight trilogy (book 1: The Bear and the Nightingale); Laini Taylor's Daughter of Smoke and Bone trilogy (book 1 has same name). And I've just bought the sequel to Caroline O'Donoghue's All Our Hidden Gifts.

I often only buy a book 1. I'm satisfied (or not) by the story arc but not enough to make me spend precious pennies on the next instalment.

So, yes, One overarching beat sheet plus individual beat sheets for each book.

I've written a trilogy (on the quest for an agent now) and am writing a second trilogy. In each case, I know the overarching arc and the arc of each book, but I only write the beat sheet of the book I'm working on. Things change in the writing (the characters and story have their say) which will alter a beat sheet for book 2 which will alter a beat sheet for book 3 etc.

 

[izi 出久]

So if you're only doing 3 books, personally, I'd make the midpoint of book 2 the midpoint for the overarching plot and then work out your beats from there. Does that make sense?

I want it to only be three books, but the first book has lost a lot of content to Book 2... The midpoint of the plot would come at the end of book 2 and then I'd pray to the gods of literature that I can finish it in one more book.

So I guess this leads to another question. Would it be better to cut content to keep it at 3 books (what some believe is the holy trinity for readers) or just rewrite my outline to fit four book? Currently, I've cut a lot of side story for some of my B characters (Jaro and Saku) that I had decided to put in a separate series, although it does quite a bit for their characterization.

 

[RK Wallis]

I want it to only be three books, but the first book has lost a lot of content to Book 2... The midpoint of the plot would come at the end of book 2 and then I'd pray to the gods of literature that I can finish it in one more book.

So I guess this leads to another question. Would it be better to cut content to keep it at 3 books (what some believe is the holy trinity for readers) or just rewrite my outline to fit four book? Currently, I've cut a lot of side story for some of my B characters (Jaro and Saku) that I had decided to put in a separate series, although it does quite a bit for their characterization.

I'd get it finished first, then see what you have to play with. Plan for what you want in the book When you rewrite the overall word count will yo-yo, so I wouldn't worry yet

 

[Hannah F]

I want it to only be three books, but the first book has lost a lot of content to Book 2... The midpoint of the plot would come at the end of book 2 and then I'd pray to the gods of literature that I can finish it in one more book.

So I guess this leads to another question. Would it be better to cut content to keep it at 3 books (what some believe is the holy trinity for readers) or just rewrite my outline to fit four book? Currently, I've cut a lot of side story for some of my B characters (Jaro and Saku) that I had decided to put in a separate series, although it does quite a bit for their characterization.

Side stories: do they move the main story forward? If not, despite their brilliant job of characterisation, always cut.

I have an out-takes folder for all my tearfully scissored-out chapters. Parts will come in useful for other stories. Some chapters may return as freebie shorts for book buying subscribers (I have no subscribers. I have no books. I'm just thinking ahead).

 

[Serra K]

As the others have said, I enjoy a trilogy or series that has a standalone story in each book, with a setup for the next book at the end. These stories all nestle within the overarching theme and drive the overarching story to its ultimate climax in the final book.

 

[Pamela Jo]

Just in the interest of practicality accept that finishing in a form that you can send to a publisher is far more important than perfection. You will never completely be able to transfer what is in your head to a readers. Like in parenting-find the good enough and get on with it. It's completing the task not getting it perfect that ends in published books.

 

[izi 出久]

Just in the interest of practicality accept that finishing in a form that you can send to a publisher is far more important than perfection. You will never completely be able to transfer what is in your head to a readers. Like in parenting-find the good enough and get on with it. It's completing the task not getting it perfect that ends in published books.

Now to translate this knowledge from head to heart...

 

[Hannah F]

Just in the interest of practicality accept that finishing in a form that you can send to a publisher is far more important than perfection. You will never completely be able to transfer what is in your head to a readers. Like in parenting-find the good enough and get on with it. It's completing the task not getting it perfect that ends in published books.

Good enough won't do. There are millions of good enoughs sitting in rejection piles. It has to be exceedingly good and hit the wish-list buttons of the agent/publisher/reader.

 

[izi 出久]

. It has to be exceedingly good and hit the wish-list buttons of the agent/publisher/reader.

I want it to be perfect. Realistically, as I write this series (and the one I have planned for after), I know my writing will get better. But I want each book to be the best it can be for where I am at as a writer.

 

[Pamela Jo]

I want it to be perfect. Realistically, as I write this series (and the one I have planned for after), I know my writing will get better. But I want each book to be the best it can be for where I am at as a writer.

Of course. But what we conceive in our heads and what we are able to translate to paper is just never going to match up. Looking for perfection is just a way to self sabotage since it cannot exist in nature. If you never finish you do protect yourself from rejection. But unfortunately braving rejection is the only way to really get better. Make a task you can finish.

 

[izi 出久]

But what we conceive in our heads and what we are able to translate to paper is just never going to match up. Looking for perfection is just a way to self sabotage

I can't remember if it was Flannery O'Connor who wrote about how writing is never finished, but there comes a time when it's done (or vice versa; this isn't an exact quote). Every time I read something I've wrote, I find ways to make it better. Every damn time. So I hear this. There comes a point when you have to say "It is finished" and breathe your last breath on the story and be ok with it.

But I still want it to be fecking good before I take it anywhere

 

[Pamela Jo]

Good enough won't do. There are millions of good enoughs sitting in rejection piles. It has to be exceedingly good and hit the wish-list buttons of the agent/publisher/reader.

Not really what I said. There is a difference between a well-edited manuscript and some perfect idea we have in our heads that we are trying to translate to paper. Though there probably are not many unedited manuscripts that get accepted it is an error in logic to try and say that the best edited manuscript WILL get published. There are too many market factors involved. There are many Shades of Grey between perfection and what gets published. Setting a task that is doable is more important than reaching some state of "perfection" if you're ever going to have something to even get rejected by a publisher. In fact rejection may even be a necessary ingredient to reaching a publishable state.

 

[Pamela Jo]

I can't remember if it was Flannery O'Connor who wrote about how writing is never finished, but there comes a time when it's done (or vice versa; this isn't an exact quote). Every time I read something I've wrote, I find ways to make it better. Every damn time. So I hear this. There comes a point when you have to say "It is finished" and breathe your last breath on the story and be ok with it.

But I still want it to be fecking good before I take it anywhere

Brava for that. I had a prof who said it takes 2 to create a work of art. One to create it. The 2nd to hit them over a head with a hammer and take it away.

 

[Hannah F]

What's the difference between an artist and a great artist? Talent and practice, practice, practice. There is no such thing as perfect, but there is such a thing as a great piece of writing (they shine like jewels in sand when they appear on pop-ups) and a great concept and a great story.
If you aim for great, you might reach something good. If you aim for perfection, you might reach something great. The important thing is to read loads of good books and write loads. Move on, write other pieces, but if one believes in a story, as one's writing improves one can return and improve that story. Then up it will move - another rung on the ladder towards greatness.

 

[Josephine]

Found this in a library book today...

 

[CageSage]

On the beat sheets -
I do one for the story, sans character, to demonstrate the underlying theme and purpose [greed, maybe].
I do a beat sheet for the whole series, with main beats linked to thematic elements from the previous.
I also do a beat sheet for each character with a speaking role [including the antag], and note where they come into the first two beat sheets.
Sounds complex, but it isn't as bad as it sounds. Knowing the beat sheets for the characters, their flaws and goals, enables placement in the best spot in the overall story.
Well, in my mind it does ...