Are adjectival commas on the way out?

[Brian Clegg]

I've no idea if 'adjectival commas' is the correct grammatical term, but I was pondering the other day the way that these commas seem to be dying out. (I suspect it's a good thing.)

What I mean is the ones that separate adjectives when you apply more than one to the same noun. The example that springs to mind immediately is Kipling's "grey-green, greasy Limpopo river" or I could go a little more mad myself and have an encounter with a "short, fat, balding, highly unpleasant accountant." (I don't know why it's an accountant, and I apologise if you are an accountant, its just the first word that came to mind.) Or even just a "big, bad wolf."

Admittedly multiple adjectives can be overused, but I'm finding when I do occasionally use them I am less likely to put the commas in than I used to. And no one seems to mind, so my suspicion is that they are on their way out in the evolution of English. Would you agree?

 

[Bernard Stacey]

You're probably right, but I like commas on the whole. They put enforced pauses into texts that allow one to consider what is being described. As with anything, overuse is, to be honest, irritating.

 

[Jason Byrne]

I am a habitual user of excessive adjectives, and tend to play with using commas and omitting them, to control the flow the sentence. Like... I don't know...
"It was a somber morning, expectant, chill and gloomy as they saddled for the final portion of the..."

 

[Meerkat]

I hope not. I consider them important.

 

[Carol Rose]

My editor has been taking them out lately, and I keep putting them back in. LOL!! Old habits are hard to break.

 

[Meerkat]

My editor has been taking them out lately, and I keep putting them back in. LOL!! Old habits are hard to break.

That's odd--when I took a course in copy editing in order to certify as an editor (six years ago), I was taught to use these commas. Is this a wholesale change, or is it house style for your publisher?

By the way, at first I thought, "Who is Carol Rose and why have I not seen her post before?"

 

[Jason Byrne]

I hope not. I consider them important.

That is encouraging to hear, from an editor. Thank you @Meerkat.

 

[Meerkat]

That is encouraging to hear, from an editor. Thank you @Meerkat.

Keep in mind that I might have missed a memo!

 

[Carol Rose]

That's odd--when I took a course in copy editing in order to certify as an editor (six years ago), I was taught to use these commas. Is this a wholesale change, or is it house style for your publisher?

By the way, at first I thought, "Who is Carol Rose and why have I not seen her post before?"

I believe it's house style.

 

[Nicole Wilson]

Most literary agencies (in the US) use Chicago Style, instead of MLA, which most of us in the US grew up on learning. Chicago, unfortunately, doesn't use commas as frequently. However, I'm a comma snob, so I sincerely hope these (and the oxford comma) aren't completely going out of style

 

[Jennifer Stone]

I think commas of all sorts have their place. If we remove commas then we'll have sentences and books filled with 'and's or 'or's. I personally feel that would make reading much harder. It's fair enough to say these punctuation marks are out of style, or no-one uses them much anymore, but what would we replace them with?

 

[Brian Clegg]

I think commas of all sorts have their place. If we remove commas then we'll have sentences and books filled with 'and's or 'or's. I personally feel that would make reading much harder. It's fair enough to say these punctuation marks are out of style, or no-one uses them much anymore, but what would we replace them with?

I'm not suggesting commas in general are going. Just that it now seems just as acceptable to write 'Say hello to the big bad wolf,' as 'Say hello to the big, bad wolf,' - and indeed as Carol Rose mentions, my editors quite often take such commas out these days.

 

[Stephen Drake]

I am a habitual user of excessive adjectives, and tend to play with using commas and omitting them, to control the flow the sentence. Like... I don't know...
"It was a somber morning, expectant, chill and gloomy as they saddled for the final portion of the..."

Is it excessive if it works?

 

[Stephen Drake]

I think commas of all sorts have their place. If we remove commas then we'll have sentences and books filled with 'and's or 'or's. I personally feel that would make reading much harder. It's fair enough to say these punctuation marks are out of style, or no-one uses them much anymore, but what would we replace them with?

Or you'd have choppy prose without compound sentences at all.

 

[Robinne Weiss]

I read a hilarious piece once (maybe in the Onion? I can't remember now) about how all the commas were shifting to become apostrophes (or should I say apostrophe's). Now, THERE'S something that irritates me! Don't even get me going on gratuitous apostrophes!

 

[Nicole Wilson]

I read a hilarious piece once (maybe in the Onion? I can't remember now) about how all the commas were shifting to become apostrophes (or should I say apostrophe's). Now, THERE'S something that irritates me! Don't even get me going on gratuitous apostrophes!

Oh man! I see extra apostrophes all over the place now. I'm going to be so sad if that becomes a "thing".

 

[Marc Joan]

I am a habitual user of excessive adjectives, and tend to play with using commas and omitting them, to control the flow the sentence. Like... I don't know...
"It was a somber morning, expectant, chill and gloomy as they saddled for the final portion of the..."

I think Jason has it -- you use them as a tool to control how the sentence is read, to create the effect you want. It will be very sad if that part of the writer's toolkit is removed to satisfy 'house style'.

 

[Carol Rose]

I read a hilarious piece once (maybe in the Onion? I can't remember now) about how all the commas were shifting to become apostrophes (or should I say apostrophe's). Now, THERE'S something that irritates me! Don't even get me going on gratuitous apostrophes!

*head/desk* My number one pet peeve!!! Makes me CRAZY!!!!! It's even worse when I see other authors do it!!!! Or when they use the wrong words: who's when they should have used whose, etc. AAARRRGGHHHH!! My eyes!!!!!!

 

[Carol Rose]

As for taking out commas between adjectives per house style, to be fair, I really don't think taking out the commas in "long, black, silk scarf" is going to affect the flow of the story. Those are the kinds of changes I see in my manuscripts of late. The phrase becomes "long black silk scarf." Not really a difference there in the way you read it.

 

[Marc Joan]

To me, there is a difference. The commas slow down the read and put additional emphasis on each adjective. It gives a distinctly different feel. But maybe that's just me.

 

[Karen Gray]

To me, there is a difference. The commas slow down the read and put additional emphasis on each adjective. It gives a distinctly different feel. But maybe that's just me.

I agree with @Marc Joan
I use a lot of commas to indicate pauses in the narrative as I would speak it. Maybe not all need to be there, but sometimes I feel that the extra comma changes the tone of the sentence structure.

 

[Jason Byrne]

I agree with @Marc Joan
I use a lot of commas to indicate pauses in the narrative as I would speak it. Maybe not all need to be there, but sometimes I feel that the extra comma changes the tone of the sentence structure.

We've butted heads on this one before, Karen. You will find that using commas, to insert a pause imitating speech often leaves no independent clause (see what I did there). But I was literally once employed as a grammar Nazi. I'm not sure where this one falls on the continuum of "correct/incorrect" and "personal preference," however.

 

[Karen Gray]

We've butted heads on this one before, Karen. You will find that using commas, to insert a pause imitating speech often leaves no independent clause (see what I did there). But I was literally once employed as a grammar Nazi. I'm not sure where this one falls on the continuum of "correct/incorrect" and "personal preference," however.

Oh I know. Tis a habit.

Now it's uncertain dashes haha I blame your influence!

 

[Amber Zade]

I've no idea if 'adjectival commas' is the correct grammatical term, but I was pondering the other day the way that these commas seem to be dying out. (I suspect it's a good thing.)

What I mean is the ones that separate adjectives when you apply more than one to the same noun. The example that springs to mind immediately is Kipling's "grey-green, greasy Limpopo river" or I could go a little more mad myself and have an encounter with a "short, fat, balding, highly unpleasant accountant." (I don't know why it's an accountant, and I apologise if you are an accountant, its just the first word that came to mind.) Or even just a "big, bad wolf."

Admittedly multiple adjectives can be overused, but I'm finding when I do occasionally use them I am less likely to put the commas in than I used to. And no one seems to mind, so my suspicion is that they are on their way out in the evolution of English. Would you agree?

LOL I think it's considered poor writing to use a lot of adjectives. Although, the ones you chose as examples are obvious exceptions to the 'rule'.

I'm not a grammar nazi because I don't know enough about grammar. I didn't even know I was a fan of the oxford comma until I looked up oxford comma. Also, I never know what to capitalize. I mean, should I backspace and capitalize Oxford? I think that would be correct but .... I don't see what harm it does to leave it with a lower case o.

But .... back to adjectival commas ... I think they deserve commas. Definitely.

 

[Jason Byrne]

Oh I know. Tis a habit.

Now it's uncertain dashes haha I blame your influence!

Hahaha — I swear by them! (See what I did there?)

 

[Karen Gray]

Hahaha — I swear by them! (See what I did there?)

Lol! To me they will always be dithering and uncertain. Keeps my own wee personal joke attached for a chuckle

 

[Bernard Stacey]

But I was literally once employed as a grammar Nazi.

Literally?? Must have been a pretty controversial job advert.

 

[Jason Byrne]

Literally?? Must have been a pretty controversial job advert.

Hahaha, you got it! Actually, it was literally "English tutor to honors program students." I don't think the college would have been allowed to post an opening for "grammar Nazi." But it would have been funnier.

 

[Paul Whybrow]

“Thurber was asked by a correspondent: "Why did you have a comma in the sentence, 'After dinner, the men went into the living-room'?" And his answer was probably one of the loveliest things ever said about punctuation. "This particular comma," Thurber explained, "was Ross's way of giving the men time to push back their chairs and stand up.”
― Lynne Truss, Eats, Shoots & Leaves: The Zero Tolerance Approach to Punctuation

 

[Jason Byrne]

“Thurber was asked by a correspondent: "Why did you have a comma in the sentence, 'After dinner, the men went into the living-room'?" And his answer was probably one of the loveliest things ever said about punctuation. "This particular comma," Thurber explained, "was Ross's way of giving the men time to push back their chairs and stand up.”
― Lynne Truss, Eats, Shoots & Leaves: The Zero Tolerance Approach to Punctuation

It's true. That's what I saw in the comma, before I even read through to the end. All muttonchops and smoothing their frock coats. Warm cherry-wood paneling, gilded picture frames, fine crystal... in a comma. I love writing.