Help Please! A Question about Tenses

[Aethalope]

Hello Litopians, I would like to pick your brains.
By the way, I am not sure if this is the right thread. I am not quite ready to set up a whole project in the Lab, and it's kind of a general question. However, do please let me know if I'm in the wrong place.

It's about tenses.

My WIP uses a frame narrative in that the main character is trapped in a difficult yet boring situation. To pass the time while waiting for help, he talks to himself, reflecting on the events that put him in this position. He's very chatty, and part of his voice is that he mixes tenses depending on whether he is talking about things as they are now/in general or specific things that happened to him in the past.

I think it works and most of my beta readers and critique partners (about ten in total) haven't said anything about it and seem to have just enjoyed the tale. However, there is a very vocal minority who insist that it is distracting and amateurish and I must stick to one tense. Usually I can ignore them, but I'm beginning to have doubts.

Here is an example that someone said was confusing because of the tense switch:
Napping was a bad idea. There were dreams. Say what you like about demons and how rude, malodorous, dull yet dangerous they are, but there's something about them that keeps nasty dreams at bay.

Is it really that confusing? Am I completely wrong in that this is how the narrator is telling us his story?

Any advice would be much appreciated
Laura

 

[Sedayne]

Hi Laura,

It reads fine to me. Maybe the test is to change the tense to see which reads better:

Napping was a bad idea. There were dreams. Say what you like about demons and how rude, malodorous, dull yet dangerous they were, but there was something about them that kept nasty dreams at bay.

Is that how your critical reader would have preferred it? It feels less immediate, less conversational somehow.
If the majority of your beta readers were swept along with the story, then it works as it is.
To paraphrase Agent Pete, the only rule in writing is, if it works, it works.

Rachel x

 

[RK Wallis]

Hello Litopians, I would like to pick your brains.
By the way, I am not sure if this is the right thread. I am not quite ready to set up a whole project in the Lab, and it's kind of a general question. However, do please let me know if I'm in the wrong place.

It's about tenses.

My WIP uses a frame narrative in that the main character is trapped in a difficult yet boring situation. To pass the time while waiting for help, he talks to himself, reflecting on the events that put him in this position. He's very chatty, and part of his voice is that he mixes tenses depending on whether he is talking about things as they are now/in general or specific things that happened to him in the past.

I think it works and most of my beta readers and critique partners (about ten in total) haven't said anything about it and seem to have just enjoyed the tale. However, there is a very vocal minority who insist that it is distracting and amateurish and I must stick to one tense. Usually I can ignore them, but I'm beginning to have doubts.

Here is an example that someone said was confusing because of the tense switch:
Napping was a bad idea. There were dreams. Say what you like about demons and how rude, malodorous, dull yet dangerous they are, but there's something about them that keeps nasty dreams at bay.

Is it really that confusing? Am I completely wrong in that this is how the narrator is telling us his story?

Any advice would be much appreciated
Laura

Trust yourself. @AgentPete's advice is: if it works, it works. I'm comfortable with tenses. I've changed 80K from past to present tense. I had to read your excerpt twice before I had to really slow down and look for the tense change. To me, that's a sign of writing working.

 

[Aethalope]

Hi Laura,

It reads fine to me. Maybe the test is to change the tense to see which reads better:

Napping was a bad idea. There were dreams. Say what you like about demons and how rude, malodorous, dull yet dangerous they were, but there was something about them that kept nasty dreams at bay.

Is that how your critical reader would have preferred it? It feels less immediate, less conversational somehow.
If the majority of your beta readers were swept along with the story, then it works as it is.
To paraphrase Agent Pete, the only rule in writing is, if it works, it works.

Rachel x

Thanks Rachel, that is just what I need to hear

 

[Aethalope]

Trust yourself. @AgentPete's advice is: if it works, it works. I'm comfortable with tenses. I've changed 80K from past to present tense. I had to read your excerpt twice before I had to really slow down and look for the tense change. To me, that's a sign of writing working.

Trust yourself. @AgentPete's advice is: if it works, it works. I'm comfortable with tenses. I've changed 80K from past to present tense. I had to read your excerpt twice before I had to really slow down and look for the tense change. To me, that's a sign of writing working.

Thanks Rachel! I salute your epic tense change Respect

 

[JohnBertel]

Napping was a bad idea. There were dreams. Say what you like about demons and how rude, malodorous, dull yet dangerous they are, but there's something about them that keeps nasty dreams at bay.

Not confusing at all. Many people switch tense when speaking. "We went to the pub last night, and there's this big guy blocking the door."

I find the use of present tense in English ... let's say, fascinating. The English Tenses by Phil Williams has been a great help.

 

[Aethalope]

T

Not confusing at all. Many people switch tense when speaking. "We went to the pub last night, and there's this big guy blocking the door."

I find the use of present tense in English ... let's say, fascinating. The English Tenses by Phil Williams has been a great help.

Thanks John, it's nice to know I'm not going crazy and it's a normal thing

 

[AgentPete]

Yes, I agree too.

Persnickety (don’tcha love that word!) readers will find something to complain about, regular readers won’t.

Neither is it a deal-breaker, i.e. you’re unlikely to find an agent or pub who will reject on the narrow grounds of tense inconsistency.

This is the sort of issue that sometimes crops up in copy editing, but that’s post-contract in any case. Some copy editors are fabulous. Others can be very persnickety (just wanted to say that again!). I’d argue that changing the tense to past is actually having a negative effect on the authorial voice, which copy editors are not supposed to do. It’s a battle you can fight later down the line

 

[Aethalope]

Yes, I agree too.

Persnickety (don’tcha love that word!) readers will find something to complain about, regular readers won’t.

Neither is it a deal-breaker, i.e. you’re unlikely to find an agent or pub who will reject on the narrow grounds of tense inconsistency.

This is the sort of issue that sometimes crops up in copy editing, but that’s post-contract in any case. Some copy editors are fabulous. Others can be very persnickety (just wanted to say that again!). I’d argue that changing the tense to past is actually having a negative effect on the authorial voice, which copy editors are not supposed to do. It’s a battle you can fight later down the line

Thanks Pete, that's very reassuring. I shall henceforth think the word Persnickety when someone complains about tenses

 

[Sedayne]

On a side note @AgentPete , I see there are voting options on this thread. Is that intentional?
Whichever way you look at it, @Aethalope is the winner

 

[AgentPete]

No, not intentional. The option existed for a member to create a regular thread, or a poll / question / article thread. But I’ve now restricted Café Life to consist of either regular threads or polls, which is a simpler choice for members.

 

[E G Logan]

I’d argue that changing the tense to past is actually having a negative effect on the authorial voice,

I'm with you, AP.
I think it works just fine in that example. Tell your readers it's a conscious choice, not a mistake. Full stop.

 

[Hannah F]

Here is an example that someone said was confusing because of the tense switch:
Napping was a bad idea. There were dreams. Say what you like about demons and how rude, malodorous, dull yet dangerous they are, but there's something about them that keeps nasty dreams at bay.

Hi Laura

The way you have written it here reads like someone's natural dialogue. Changing it to past tense takes it away from natural speech. Changing it all to present tense looses the meaning of the first two sentences. I say keep it as you've written it.

 

[Aethalope]

I'm with you, AP.
I think it works just fine in that example. Tell your readers it's a conscious choice, not a mistake. Full stop.

Short and sweet - I love it! Thanks for the input

 

[Aethalope]

Hi Laura

The way you have written it here reads like someone's natural dialogue. Changing it to past tense takes it away from natural speech. Changing it all to present tense looses the meaning of the first two sentences. I say keep it as you've written it.

Hi Hannah,
Thanks, that's so good to hear!

 

[CarolMS]

Hello Litopians, I would like to pick your brains.
By the way, I am not sure if this is the right thread. I am not quite ready to set up a whole project in the Lab, and it's kind of a general question. However, do please let me know if I'm in the wrong place.

It's about tenses.

My WIP uses a frame narrative in that the main character is trapped in a difficult yet boring situation. To pass the time while waiting for help, he talks to himself, reflecting on the events that put him in this position. He's very chatty, and part of his voice is that he mixes tenses depending on whether he is talking about things as they are now/in general or specific things that happened to him in the past.

I think it works and most of my beta readers and critique partners (about ten in total) haven't said anything about it and seem to have just enjoyed the tale. However, there is a very vocal minority who insist that it is distracting and amateurish and I must stick to one tense. Usually I can ignore them, but I'm beginning to have doubts.

Here is an example that someone said was confusing because of the tense switch:
Napping was a bad idea. There were dreams. Say what you like about demons and how rude, malodorous, dull yet dangerous they are, but there's something about them that keeps nasty dreams at bay.

Is it really that confusing? Am I completely wrong in that this is how the narrator is telling us his story?

Any advice would be much appreciated
Laura

I agree that this works just fine. Although I must admit, if I, personally, were to say the line myself, I'd drop the "but" and let my tone convey the meaning clearly. Or maybe add "still" (or ?) after "there's".

 

[Aethalope]

I agree that this works just fine. Although I must admit, if I, personally, were to say the line myself, I'd drop the "but" and let my tone convey the meaning clearly. Or maybe add "still" (or ?) after "there's".

Yes, I think I might too. Nice to hear it sounds natural enough

 

[Pamela Jo]

Hello Litopians, I would like to pick your brains.
By the way, I am not sure if this is the right thread. I am not quite ready to set up a whole project in the Lab, and it's kind of a general question. However, do please let me know if I'm in the wrong place.

It's about tenses.

My WIP uses a frame narrative in that the main character is trapped in a difficult yet boring situation. To pass the time while waiting for help, he talks to himself, reflecting on the events that put him in this position. He's very chatty, and part of his voice is that he mixes tenses depending on whether he is talking about things as they are now/in general or specific things that happened to him in the past.

I think it works and most of my beta readers and critique partners (about ten in total) haven't said anything about it and seem to have just enjoyed the tale. However, there is a very vocal minority who insist that it is distracting and amateurish and I must stick to one tense. Usually I can ignore them, but I'm beginning to have doubts.

Here is an example that someone said was confusing because of the tense switch:
Napping was a bad idea. There were dreams. Say what you like about demons and how rude, malodorous, dull yet dangerous they are, but there's something about them that keeps nasty dreams at bay.

Is it really that confusing? Am I completely wrong in that this is how the narrator is telling us his story?

Any advice would be much appreciated
Laura

I see nothing wrong. It's not confusing and most readers just want a good story. They will follow any tense to get there. My argument would be that people talk this way. It can be like someone flubbing the end of a joke and ruining the punchline OR the teller can build suspense and deliver an ending that makes the listeners go, AWWWW, what a good story.

 

[Aethalope]

I see nothing wrong. It's not confusing and most readers just want a good story. They will follow any tense to get there. My argument would be that people talk this way. It can be like someone flubbing the end of a joke and ruining the punchline OR the teller can build suspense and deliver an ending that makes the listeners go, AWWWW, what a good story.

That's such a great way to apply at it!