Help Please! Death dates when precise TOD can't be known...?

[E G Logan]

Does anyone know how a date of death is officially arrived at for those deceased whose time of death can't be estimated with any certainty? For example, on their death certificate or their grave stone.

My deceased are going to be one drowned and washed up some time later and one dead of injury and exposure out hiking but not found till a couple of weeks or so later.

 

[Vagabond Heart]

Have you spoken to the police?

I was doing an art installation that I felt would benefit from using police evidence bags, so I strolled into the local police station and asked to look at one. They were very helpful.

 

[JoanUP]

Does anyone know how a date of death is officially arrived at for those deceased whose time of death can't be estimated with any certainty? For example, on their death certificate or their grave stone.

My deceased are going to be one drowned and washed up some time later and one dead of injury and exposure out hiking but not found till a couple of weeks or so later.

You mean, as in the life stage of the maggots on the body, and the amount of bloating of the gut etc?
A quick google search landed on this book->

Corpse: Nature, Forensics, and the Struggle to Pinpoint…

In this book, Sachs accompanies an eccentric group of e…

www.goodreads.com

Years ago..(decades?) there was a very readable book with each chapter a different death and how the forensic scientist figured out what had happened. Unfortunately I can't think of the title or anything....

 

[Sedayne]

In the UK currently, date of death and time of death are two different things, and not always the same date.
The death date is the date that the person is verified as being dead.
An example from one of my own patients just last week - expected death of a 101year old so no coroner. Care staff in the residential home reported her deceased late one night, but because it was after midnight by the time the district nurse arrived to verify, her actual date of death is the following day.
So time of death could be 23:30 one day, but if time of verification is 00:05, for example, the DOD is the following day. This is the date the GP must enter on the death certificate.

As for determining time of death when there are no witnesses, it would depend on stages of rigor mortis, decomposition, etc, about which I know nothing.
Have we got any coroners or forensic scientists on Litopia?

 

[Barbara]

There's a Facebook group called Trauma Fiction (Medical and Trauma Guidance for Fiction Writers).They're very good for stuff like that. Lots of experts on there. - And no, don't ask me why I joined them.

 

[Hannah F]

In the UK currently, date of death and time of death are two different things, and not always the same date.
The death date is the date that the person is verified as being dead.
An example from one of my own patients just last week - expected death of a 101year old so no coroner. Care staff in the residential home reported her deceased late one night, but because it was after midnight by the time the district nurse arrived to verify, her actual date of death is the following day.
So time of death could be 23:30 one day, but if time of verification is 00:05, for example, the DOD is the following day. This is the date the GP must enter on the death certificate.

As for determining time of death when there are no witnesses, it would depend on stages of rigor mortis, decomposition, etc, about which I know nothing.
Have we got any coroners or forensic scientists on Litopia?

My Dad's a pathologist and, for a few years, was Dublin City Coroner. He'd answer this question for sure, but unfortunately he now has his own DOD.

 

[E G Logan]

Have you spoken to the police?

When, very recently, I locked myself in the hall in my jeans and slippers (no money, no phone, obvs no keys), with a taxi on the way to take me to the airport – to go to London for a family wedding – and the dog to the dog pensione... yes, I went across the road to the Carabinieri for help. I thought they might have a number for a locksmith...
And now I am much too embarrassed to go back for anything.

And the answer was: they called the fire brigade.

 

[E G Logan]

There's a Facebook group called Trauma Fiction (Medical and Trauma Guidance for Fiction Writers).They're very good for stuff like that. Lots of experts on there. - And no, don't ask me why I joined them.

I don't do social media. You wouldn't like to re-direct my question to them for me, pls?

 

[Barbara]

I don't do social media. You wouldn't like to re-direct my question to them for me, pls?

Before I do, where is the story set? In case procedures vary according to country.

 

[E G Logan]

Good question. Probably do.
Drowning is off an island in the far North of Scotland. Rocks, currents, wild, hostile sea.
Hiker found at the bottom of a small ravine in the North York Moors, England, with a stream running through it.

 

[Barbara]

Good question. Probably do.
Drowning is off an island in the far North of Scotland. Rocks, currents, wild, hostile sea.
Hiker found at the bottom of a small ravine in the North York Moors, England, with a stream running through it.

Done. I'll email you with the replies.

 

[E G Logan]

Done. I'll email you with the replies.

Bless you, sweetie. I'll stick edited highlights on here, in case they're of interest to others.

Should explain, my victims weren't murdered, as such, but the day of their deaths is key, since – creep, shudder – it could be the same day.

 

[E G Logan]

Here are the highlights:

-- Case of person who drowned – missing day 1, found day 2. Death date assessed as day 2.
--Case of person who went missing – last day any proof of life day 1, found day 15. Death date assessed as day 15.

Research from someone:
--Three considerations about when a DoD is established.
A) Forensic - fly larvae, rigor, putrefaction, etc.
B) Investigative: last seen or known to be alive or date of recovery, then a sort of working backwards.
C) Legal. In a situation where an exact date of death can't be established, courts and coroners, and others, will rely on the 'most likely' time of death based on available evidence/testimony, to make decisions about estates/
inheritance etc.