Age categories: help or hindrance? Do they put you off reading certain books?

[KateESal]

I've been musing over this because my recently published novel, The Face That Pins You is YA and I've deliberately targeted it at the teenage/early twenties demographic. However, I'm acquiring fans across the age-ranges, including a growing army of readers in their 60s, 70s, 80s and even 90s. Their reactions to the book have been remarkably similar to the teenage readers, with my more mature readers telling me they got hooked by the story and found it a real page-turner.

Personally, I love reading well-written YA and teen fiction. I also love a good MG novel and don't hesitate to recommend them to adults, if I think they'll enjoy them.

What are your own thoughts on age categorisation? I get that more adult themes are inappropriate and can be upsetting to younger readers, so it's as well to mark that delineation. Also, certain adult interests simply don't appeal to younger readers.

But what about the opposite direction? Do you ever read books written for school-age readers? Should age-categorisations be reconsidered to avoid unnecessarily deterring older readers from trying kid lit?

The Harry Potter and Hunger Games series are two examples of stories which have had no trouble appealing to many older readers, and publishers woke up to that and repackaged them to enlarge the attraction.

What MG or YA books would you recommend to older readers?

Here are a few of mine:

The Maze Runner series by James Dashner
The Artemis Fowl series by Eoin Colfer
The Fault In Our Stars by John Green
One Of Us Is Lying (etc.) by Karen McManus
The Places I've Cried In Public (etc.) by Holly Bourne
One by Sarah Crossan
The House With Chicken Legs by Sophie Anderson
The Cherub series by Robert Muchamore

What would you recommend?

 

[Jake E]

I tend to steer clear of anything marked YA.

Obvioulsy, when I as a teen I devoured books like those: His Dark Materials, Garth Nix books etc... but since my late twenties, I've not touched them. I think it may have been the sudden vampire trend that did it, I don't really like vampire fiction. Seemed more aimed at teemage girls than me.

Most of what I read now is aimed at adult readers: A Song of Ice and Fire, The Stormlight Archive, The Witcher, Wheel of Time, DiscWorld. YA, on the whole, doesn't scratch that deep worldbuilding itch for me.

 

[Pamela Jo]

This was

I've been musing over this because my recently published novel, The Face That Pins You is YA and I've deliberately targeted it at the teenage/early twenties demographic. However, I'm acquiring fans across the age-ranges, including a growing army of readers in their 60s, 70s, 80s and even 90s. Their reactions to the book have been remarkably similar to the teenage readers, with my more mature readers telling me they got hooked by the story and found it a real page-turner.

Personally, I love reading well-written YA and teen fiction. I also love a good MG novel and don't hesitate to recommend them to adults, if I think they'll enjoy them.

What are your own thoughts on age categorisation? I get that more adult themes are inappropriate and can be upsetting to younger readers, so it's as well to mark that delineation. Also, certain adult interests simply don't appeal to younger readers.

But what about the opposite direction? Do you ever read books written for school-age readers? Should age-categorisations be reconsidered to avoid unnecessarily deterring older readers from trying kid lit?

The Harry Potter and Hunger Games series are two examples of stories which have had no trouble appealing to many older readers, and publishers woke up to that and repackaged them to enlarge the attraction.

What MG or YA books would you recommend to older readers?

Here are a few of mine:

The Maze Runner series by James Dashner
The Artemis Fowl series by Eoin Colfer
The Fault In Our Stars by John Green
One Of Us Is Lying (etc.) by Karen McManus
The Places I've Cried In Public (etc.) by Holly Bourne
One by Sarah Crossan
The House With Chicken Legs by Sophie Anderson
The Cherub series by Robert Muchamore

What would you recommend?

This was part of my theory in writing, One Magic Summer, -all the fun of YA with protags in their 50's having adventures. And in hoping to start a web page for horsey readers who want to read more about horses. My target audience is all ages. Cause you never really outgrow horses.

I propose Diana Wynn Jones who I've just learned about and whose books are now really hard to get ahold of. Neil Gaiman said she was the most creative author of YA of her time. She wrote 'Howls Moving Castle' and I love the film made from it. Awaiting ordered books as I type.

Diana Wynne Jones | Fantasy novelist, children’s author | Britannica

Diana Wynne Jones was a British fantasy writer of more than 40 books for children, many of which centre on magic or magicians. Jones was the oldest of three sisters and often looked after her siblings—partly because of a complicated relationship with their parents, who were both teachers. Despite

www.britannica.com

Oh always and forever "The Once and Future King" TH White. My whole house decor is based on Merlins lair when Newt first meets him.

 

[KateESal]

His Dark Materials

Interesting example, this. Although the main protagonist/s are 12 and the story involves witches and talking animals, I don't actually think these are children's books as such (even YA is a push). They get categorised as such, but I think there are multiple layers of nuance and adult themes that make them a much more mature read than a typical teen novel. Philip Pullman himself has also commented that HDM aren't really children's books.
I read (and reread) HDM as an adult and loved them.

YA, on the whole, doesn't scratch that deep worldbuilding itch for me.

Have you tried Six Of Crows by Leigh Bardugo and her other Grishaverse novels? Dark YA fantasy with excellent world-building. Likewise, VE Schwab's Shades of Magic series and anything by Holly Black? And the MG dystopian/fantasy books I mentioned in the first post are all distinguished by their superb world-building.

One Magic Summer, -all the fun of YA with protags in their 50's having adventures

This sounds great!

 

[Rachael Burnett]

This was

This was part of my theory in writing, One Magic Summer, -all the fun of YA with protags in their 50's having adventures. And in hoping to start a web page for horsey readers who want to read more about horses. My target audience is all ages. Cause you never really outgrow horses.

I propose Diana Wynn Jones who I've just learned about and whose books are now really hard to get ahold of. Neil Gaiman said she was the most creative author of YA of her time. She wrote 'Howls Moving Castle' and I love the film made from it. Awaiting ordered books as I type.

Diana Wynne Jones | Fantasy novelist, children’s author | Britannica

Diana Wynne Jones was a British fantasy writer of more than 40 books for children, many of which centre on magic or magicians. Jones was the oldest of three sisters and often looked after her siblings—partly because of a complicated relationship with their parents, who were both teachers. Despite

www.britannica.com

Oh always and forever "The Once and Future King" TH White. My whole house decor is based on Merlins lair when Newt first meets him.

I love the title, One Magic Summer. Have you had it published yet?

 

[Jake E]

Interesting example, this. Although the main protagonist/s are 12 and the story involves witches and talking animals, I don't actually think these are children's books as such (even YA is a push). They get categorised as such, but I think there are multiple layers of nuance and adult themes that make them a much more mature read than a typical teen novel. Philip Pullman himself has also commented that HDM aren't really children's books.
I read (and reread) HDM as an adult and loved them.

I see what you mean. I read HDM when I was 17 and thoroughly enjoyed them. I could definietly read them again as an adult, so probably a bad example.

Have you tried Six Of Crows by Leigh Bardugo and her other Grishaverse novels? Dark YA fantasy with excellent world-building. Likewise, VE Schwab's Shades of Magic series and anything by Holly Black? And the MG dystopian/fantasy books I mentioned in the first post are all distinguished by their superb world-building.

I've not read any of these. I'll put them onthe Christmas list for when I've finished Wheel of Time (I'm on book 8 of 15)

 

[Hannah F]

In the fantasy genre, I read mostly YA and some MG or crossovers. I do like some adult (e.g. The Starless Sea by Erin Morgenstern; The Toy Makers by Robert Dinsdale), but I prefer YA to the likes of Song of Ice and Fire (I read the first two but they are too violent for my taste). I'm . . . em . . . in my very late 50s . . . but I can relate to YA more. I'm not alone. It's estimated that approx 50% of YA readers are adult.

My recommendations are:
Daughter of Smoke and Bone by Laini Taylor (+ two sequels) YA.
Witches by Finbar Hawkins. MG
All Our Hidden Gifts by Caroline O'Donoghue (+ sequel). YA
Spinning Silver by Naomi Novik. YA.
The Bear and the Nightingale by Katherine Arden (+ two sequels). YA.
They Both Die in the End by Adam Silvera. YA.

From your list, @KateESal , I loved The Fault in Our Stars.

 

[Rachael Burnett]

I've been musing over this because my recently published novel, The Face That Pins You is YA and I've deliberately targeted it at the teenage/early twenties demographic. However, I'm acquiring fans across the age-ranges, including a growing army of readers in their 60s, 70s, 80s and even 90s. Their reactions to the book have been remarkably similar to the teenage readers, with my more mature readers telling me they got hooked by the story and found it a real page-turner.

Personally, I love reading well-written YA and teen fiction. I also love a good MG novel and don't hesitate to recommend them to adults, if I think they'll enjoy them.

What are your own thoughts on age categorisation? I get that more adult themes are inappropriate and can be upsetting to younger readers, so it's as well to mark that delineation. Also, certain adult interests simply don't appeal to younger readers.

But what about the opposite direction? Do you ever read books written for school-age readers? Should age-categorisations be reconsidered to avoid unnecessarily deterring older readers from trying kid lit?

The Harry Potter and Hunger Games series are two examples of stories which have had no trouble appealing to many older readers, and publishers woke up to that and repackaged them to enlarge the attraction.

What MG or YA books would you recommend to older readers?

Here are a few of mine:

The Maze Runner series by James Dashner
The Artemis Fowl series by Eoin Colfer
The Fault In Our Stars by John Green
One Of Us Is Lying (etc.) by Karen McManus
The Places I've Cried In Public (etc.) by Holly Bourne
One by Sarah Crossan
The House With Chicken Legs by Sophie Anderson
The Cherub series by Robert Muchamore

What would you recommend?

The two that comes to mind is The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time and The Fault in Our Stars. Not sure if Normal People counts, but I loved it. I also love the Harry Potter books and the Hunger Games series with its themes of war and dictatorial control. Obviously, C.S. Lewis and Tolkien are total crossovers. I pretty much adore anything by Fannie Flagg, so I'd include Daisy Fay and The Miracle Man.

 

[Hannah F]

Oh, and you've reminded me:
Gallant by V.E. Schwab
The Cruel Prince by Holly Black (+ two sequels).

Have to say, most of the YA I've read have great worldbuilding.

 

[Hannah F]

The two that comes to mind is The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time and The Fault in Our Stars. Not sure if Normal People counts, but I loved it. I also love the Harry Potter books and the Hunger Games series with its themes of war and dictatorial control. Obviously, C.S. Lewis and Tolkien are total crossovers. I pretty much adore anything by Fannie Flagg, so I'd include Daisy Fay and The Miracle Man.

I hated The Curious Incident . . . Hated it with a passion. I'll never read it again. The stereotyping, imo, reaches vulgar proportions.

 

[Jake E]

I hated The Curious Incident . . . Hated it with a passion. I'll never read it again. The stereotyping, imo, reaches vulgar proportions.

Ditto.

 

[KateESal]

Wheel of Time

Impressed by your stamina!! Go for it!

Daughter of Smoke and Bone by Laini Taylor (+ two sequels) YA.
Witches by Finbar Hawkins. MG
All Our Hidden Gifts by Caroline O'Donoghue (+ sequel). YA
Spinning Silver by Naomi Novik. YA.
The Bear and the Nightingale by Katherine Arden (+ two sequels). YA.

I haven't read any of these! Thanks for the recs, Hannah, I'm getting on it

Not sure if Normal People counts

I see your point...it's YA in many respects...but Sally Rooney's writing has an adult quality to it that make it trickier to definitively categorise...

anything by Fannie Flagg, so I'd include Daisy Fay and The Miracle Man.

Another one I haven't read! Adding to the list....

 

[KateESal]

I hated The Curious Incident . . . Hated it with a passion. I'll never read it again. The stereotyping, imo, reaches vulgar proportions.

I enjoyed it and recently taught the stage adaptation to a GCSE class. I think the novel has its flaws, though.

One of our students has Asperger's and he'd read the novel before we studied the play. He LOVED the book, because he said he really identified with Christopher. He likewise adored the theatrical version.

 

[Jake E]

Impressed by your stamina!! Go for it!

I am in what the fan base call 'The slog' (Book 7 to 10) and Oh, my word is it hard going.

 

[KateESal]

I loved The Fault in Our Stars.

Oh, so did I! Laughed my head off and howled my eyes out.
I've since recommended it to several adult readers and they've all loved it.

 

[Brooke]

i kind of read exclusively YA and maybe some MG sprinkled in there. i've read a few adult novels, and always found them pretty boring, though that figures since i'm nowhere near the target audience, lol. i read mostly LGBTQ+ YA realistic fiction (as in, there's a whole section reserved for them on my personal bookshelf), but i'm pretty sure nobody here would be very interested in that stuff :').

I've not touched them. I think it may have been the sudden vampire trend that did it, I don't really like vampire fiction. Seemed more aimed at teenage girls than me.

eugh, i have never read a vampire fiction book and i don't plan to. i don't know any readers my age who are into that genre, and i figure most vampire fiction readers were in middle/high school when Twilight was coming around. vampire YA/MG books are kind of a running joke with readers my age (they're usually humorously bad, or at least the ones on wattpad are), so i hope you don't think that all YA books are like that.

i've never actually read TFIOS-- there's a copy somewhere in the living room, but it just never struck me as a book i'd like to read. i've noticed i tend to be pretty late on reading the "classics" of my generation; i only read Simon vs. The Homo Sapien's Agenda a few weeks ago. felt obligated to as a queer teen, lol.

my recommendations?
The Hate U Give by Angie Thomas
Anger is a Gift by Mark Oshiro
The Boy in the Black Suit by Jason Reynolds
May the Best Man Win by Z. R. Ellor
The Luis Ortega Survival Club by Sonora Reyes

 

[Pamela Jo]

I love the title, One Magic Summer. Have you had it published yet?

Was prepared to push through to a final rewrite in the Spring after I was told it was publishable and recommended to Storm, then another book and pasture flooding with various other life complications interfered. Upside I have learned to use a digger. Have one for the weekend in fact and a whole stretch of pipe to dig up to find the leak and or leaks. It's like a murder mystery tho instead of gushing blood I have well water. I've decided to file this summer under research.

 

[Serra K]

I skipped the whole thread my bad. But YA recently meand bad romance with a dose of sv. Can't help it.

 

[Vagabond Heart]

My utter favourite find was We Were Liars, by E. Lockhart. Wonderful book.

And I think age categories are fantastic in terms of buying books for other people or their kids. For me. I'll read any age range, but it's so useful to know if a book is aimed at a 12 yr old or a 19 yr old, when you haven't read it first, and have got a book-devouring great niece.

 

[Rachael Burnett]

Was prepared to push through to a final rewrite in the Spring after I was told it was publishable and recommended to Storm, then another book and pasture flooding with various other life complications interfered. Upside I have learned to use a digger. Have one for the weekend in fact and a whole stretch of pipe to dig up to find the leak and or leaks. It's like a murder mystery tho instead of gushing blood I have well water. I've decided to file this summer under research.

At least if you need to write about a character using a digger, you now have the expertise

 

[Hannah F]

My utter favourite find was We Were Liars, by E. Lockhart. Wonderful book.

And I think age categories are fantastic in terms of buying books for other people or their kids. For me. I'll read any age range, but it's so useful to know if a book is aimed at a 12 yr old or a 19 yr old, when you haven't read it first, and have got a book-devouring great niece.

I agree. I like age categories, but for me. I like YA, so that's my first go to when looking for a new read. Also, as I write YA, it's my best chance of finding comparable novels. It would be an awful lot harder (and it's already tough) if there were no age categories.

 

[Mel L]

I detest age categories, in reading as in life. I get that they are interesting marketing tools but they are irrelevant to me as a reader. Good stories transcend ages, gender and race. I do tend to avoid YA as so much of it is fantasy, which is not a genre I'm attracted to. And I absolutely adored The Curious Incident as well as TFIOS!

 

[CageSage]

In the hidden recesses of the things publishers consider before pushing a book hard is how wide they can spin it. What does that mean?
Harry Potter was chosen by the consultant brought in to consider all the potential candidates. It was chosen because a lot of people read YA (yes, it was middle grade, but it built to YA (the series was almost complete when they looked at it) and was in the 'wonder' arena where ages of readers has wide variability) and this particular book (and series) had a breadth of characters of a wide range of ages, types, roles, genders, etc. The big one was the different ages of characters with depth.
In short, it wasn't about the category (except for the early readers - it says: this is suitable for you, young reader), it was about the reach created by the characters of different ages.
David Farland was the consultant, and he's written a bit on the process. It's called 'going broad and deep'.
Broad: lots of characters brought into the story from a diverse range of ages (siblings, pre-teens, teens, ya, senior school students, parents, cousins, friends, aunts/uncles, teachers, ghosts, creatures of wonder, professors, elderly (both muggle and magical), and a very special old headmaster. Oh, there's also a bit about public servants, government, and law-enforcement. And so on. Broad reach with all those different characters).
Broad and deep.
The deep is the depth of the characters we meet, to the point we (the reader) can imitate their actions, deeds, and morals (that's why the Potter-dom/more things did so well - how many people state their 'house' on their social media?).
What is the 'wonder' arena?
When every page of the story has something a reader feels is a wonder - re-read page one and tell me how many you find.
In the first paragraph (strange and mysterious), in the second paragraph (spying), in the third (secret, greatest fear). All hooks, but also points of wonder. A bit later in the first chapter: a cat reading a map (wow! thinks the reader).
SFF should employ wonder on every page, otherwise what's the point of playing/reading/writing in the 'wonder' categories.

The age-range placed on a book isn't for the purpose of restricting, only of enabling the younger readers to feel assured that the content isn't for 'them' (the oldies) and if 'they' read it, the reason is only to do it for 'us'. Younger people like to feel a sense of 'belonging' even in the stories they read. This is what the age-range is for ... and for schools, as an afterthought.

 

[RK Wallis]

Great thread all Great read.

Have you tried Six Of Crows by Leigh Bardugo and her other Grishaverse novels? Dark YA fantasy with excellent world-building. Likewise, VE Schwab's Shades of Magic series and anything by Holly Black? And the MG dystopian/fantasy books I mentioned in the first post are all distinguished by their superb world-building.

I enjoyed all this worldbuilding. I'm with @Hannah F about Spinning Silver. It's sublime.

My recs:

Naomi Novik's Temeraire is also fun and Uprooted (if you can overlook the excessive adverbs)
Defy the Night series or A Curse so Dark and Lonely series by Brigid Kememerer
The Lunar series and Heartless by Marissa Meyer
And, of course, our own @Nikky Lee's The Rarkyn's Familiar

Interestingly, The Book Thief by Markus Zusak is categorised YA, but it's quite adult.

Wheel of Time (I'm on book 8 of 15)

I was out at Book 6 or 7, lol. Good luck

 

[Jake E]

I was out at Book 6 or 7, lol. Good luck

Yeah, 7 was hard going. Not a lot really happens.
I'm pushing through because it's promised 10 - 15 are worth the pain.

 

[Pamela Jo]

At least if you need to write about a character using a digger, you now have the expertise

Absolutely. I'm thinking a murder mystery. Maybe a farmer serial killer who buries bodies on his neighbours land with a back hoe.

As an aside Ireland does have some of the most horrific Shakespearean murders. Most of them involve land or love. A recent one was a nephew killed his aunt "accidentally" it was ruled -with a kind of digger. Said he didnt see her when he flattened her in the yard... But he'd killed her loyal protective dog, Bradley, the month before. And she had decided to rent the land to a better paying tenant.

 

[Pamela Jo]

In the hidden recesses of the things publishers consider before pushing a book hard is how wide they can spin it. What does that mean?
Harry Potter was chosen by the consultant brought in to consider all the potential candidates. It was chosen because a lot of people read YA (yes, it was middle grade, but it built to YA (the series was almost complete when they looked at it) and was in the 'wonder' arena where ages of readers has wide variability) and this particular book (and series) had a breadth of characters of a wide range of ages, types, roles, genders, etc. The big one was the different ages of characters with depth.
In short, it wasn't about the category (except for the early readers - it says: this is suitable for you, young reader), it was about the reach created by the characters of different ages.
David Farland was the consultant, and he's written a bit on the process. It's called 'going broad and deep'.
Broad: lots of characters brought into the story from a diverse range of ages (siblings, pre-teens, teens, ya, senior school students, parents, cousins, friends, aunts/uncles, teachers, ghosts, creatures of wonder, professors, elderly (both muggle and magical), and a very special old headmaster. Oh, there's also a bit about public servants, government, and law-enforcement. And so on. Broad reach with all those different characters).
Broad and deep.
The deep is the depth of the characters we meet, to the point we (the reader) can imitate their actions, deeds, and morals (that's why the Potter-dom/more things did so well - how many people state their 'house' on their social media?).
What is the 'wonder' arena?
When every page of the story has something a reader feels is a wonder - re-read page one and tell me how many you find.
In the first paragraph (strange and mysterious), in the second paragraph (spying), in the third (secret, greatest fear). All hooks, but also points of wonder. A bit later in the first chapter: a cat reading a map (wow! thinks the reader).
SFF should employ wonder on every page, otherwise what's the point of playing/reading/writing in the 'wonder' categories.

The age-range placed on a book isn't for the purpose of restricting, only of enabling the younger readers to feel assured that the content isn't for 'them' (the oldies) and if 'they' read it, the reason is only to do it for 'us'. Younger people like to feel a sense of 'belonging' even in the stories they read. This is what the age-range is for ... and for schools, as an afterthought.

Saving this. It all makes sense.

 

[KateESal]

i read mostly LGBTQ+ YA realistic fiction (as in, there's a whole section reserved for them on my personal bookshelf), but i'm pretty sure nobody here would be very interested in that stuff :').

I'm definitely interested in that kind of stuff! I've greatly enjoyed Alice Oseman's books (novels and comic books) that explore contemporary LGBTQ+ and am always up for those kind of narratives. With my school librarian hat on, LGBTQ+ themes are HUGE among younger readers and there's a growing appetite for them among older readers, too.

I do tend to avoid YA as so much of it is fantasy, which is not a genre I'm attracted to.

Looks like some of Brooke's recommendations might be worth exploring! My own novel The Face That Pins You is contemporary realistic fiction and The Fault In Our Stars, we were liars, plus novels by Jandy Nelson (read any by her, @Brooke ?) Karen McManus, Nicola Yoon and Holly Bourne (among others) are examples of devourable non-fantasy YA fiction.

David Farland was the consultant, and he's written a bit on the process. It's called 'going broad and deep'.

What a wealth of information you are, Cage! Going to look into this further, very interesting.

Interestingly, The Book Thief by Markus Zusak is categorised YA, but it's quite adult.

Yes, it is, isn't it?! My daughter surprised me by reading it at the age of 13 and falling in love with it, but in my experience older readers are more likely to appreciate The Book Thief than younger ones.

 

[Brooke]

novels by Jandy Nelson (read any by her, @Brooke ?)

found I'll Give You the Sun at my own school library and devoured it in a day! now that the new school year has started, i've got to make a list of books from the library i want to read again... i think my record was three books read in one day (during which i got approximately ZERO homework done )

 

[KateESal]

i got approximately ZERO homework done

Speaking as a teacher, reading three books in a day is an excuse that would absolutely win me over!